Mesa's Ornstein pi$$ed at Congress? Watch out...

[johnsonrod]

Yeah, I'm sure Congress really cares what he has to say... Pot calling the kettle black...

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2014-05-14/mesas-ornstein-expresses-disgust-washington

 

[General Lee]

I bet I know why......


AINonline: Aviation News, Business Aviation

Huerta Stands Firm On First Officer Qualifications

AINONLINE
by GREGORY POLEK


FAA Administrator Michael Huerta (Photo: Gregory Polek)
May 13, 2014, 8:11 PM

U.S. Federal Aviation Administrator Michael Huerta on Tuesday made his second appearance in three years at the annual Regional Airline Association Convention. This year, however, he had to answer for what many within the RAA consider his agency's failure to allay to their concerns over perhaps the most unpopular rule to take effect since the so-called One Level of Safety mandate in the late 1990s. As the featured speaker at Tuesday's general session, Huerta spoke of the need for the FAA to ensure the integrity of the Congressional requirement for first officers to carry an Air Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate, leaving little doubt that the agency's advertised partnership with the industry comes with limitations.

Although, he said, the legislation did give the FAA the authority to allow "some flexibility" in how prospective first officers meet the new ATP requirements, it didn't give it the power to compromise the spirit of the regulation. "We broadened that flexibility as much as we could in an effort to address industry concerns," explained Huerta. "But Congress's intent was clear. They wanted to increase the qualification and experience requirements for pilots. We're open to discussing ideas on strengthening the pilot pipeline, but industry must recognize that the FAA alone cannot solve this issue."

In a pre-convention interview with AIN, RAA vice president Scott Foose dismissed charges that the shortage of pilots has resulted from the regionals' low starting pay, and asserted that a pilot's lifetime career earnings compare favorably with many professions requiring similar levels of education. The problem, he said, lies largely in the fact that regulators did not follow most of the recommendations of an FAA rulemaking committee he chaired that called for a multi-tiered system under which pilots could earn credits in lieu of flight time as they achieved certain educational and/or experience benchmarks. The committee identified 14 different academic training courses for which prospective pilots should earn credits against the 1,500-hour standard. The final rule adopted only three of the 14 recommended criteria. The RAA now wants the FAA to revisit those recommendations.

Huerta met with the RAA board on Tuesday morning and told AIN that he stressed to the members that the FAA took full advantage of the flexibility the law provided to consider military service and educational credit in lieu of flight hours. "It's a conversation we will continue to have with industry as we look for [answers to] how do we deal with our long-term pilot requirements," he said. During talks with the RAA, Huerta noted that the sides settled on a credit of up to 500 hours for some combination of educational and military experience. "There are some that feel that maybe we could have gone beyond that," he conceded. "Our belief was that Congress was quite clear in its intent. They wanted an ATP; they wanted to be an hours threshold; we believe we maximized the flexibility we had under the statute."




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ops check good]

It is all a problem. It's wrong for new pilots to spend so much time and money just to get hired on at a regional making poverty wages. In the past, I believe prospective pilots looked at it as "paying dues" and knew the wages would be better. Now it's law that the same prospective pilots need to work even harder, spend even more money, take much more time just to be able to make the same poverty level wages. I can see why many young men/women are not choosing that path. So... How is it fixed? Majors still need regionals, regionals still need pilots and the government still needs it's law. Seems to me it needs to start at the top. Regionals can't pay the pilots a whole lot more without either A) finding money within the company (not very easy and normally does not go over well) or B) negotiate more lucrative contracts from the majors.

Raising FO pay WILL attract enough pilots to fix this so called "shortage". The ones that refuse to raise the pay will continue to have a problem. Sorry if my opinion is wrong (I'm not a pilot I am MX) but I do have a dog in this fight. I don't like seeing any regional hurt or go under just because of a lack of pilots.

Just for the record.... I know what it is like to start off making nothing, working terrible hours "paying dues". I made somewhere around $24k my first year as an A&P but it got me to the airline I am at now.

 

[kf4amu]

Majors still need regionals

Bull********************. No they don't. They are completely capable of flying from point A to B in a smaller airplane than they do now.

I swear that argument is pretty much exactly what Roger Cohen said to Congress. Give me a break...

 

[Freebrd]

Capable yes, cheaper to have Regionals fly it, yes. There ya go.

 

[chqflyer]

The only purpose of regional airlines is to suppress wages for employees of real airlines. All employees, not just pilots.

 

[RJLoser]

They are getting exactly what they deserve.

 

[pilotyip]

It is a stupid rule. Experience and time do not necessarily go together. Take one of our DA-20 pilots hired at 500 hours TT now with a 1000 hours of flight time, 500 TJ, 550 ME 50 actual IFR. This is a year of flying around the clock, day, night, IFR, international, two man cockpit, turbo jet experience. All training under 121 rules, Appendix E, F and H qualifications. Another pilot has 1501 hours of towing banners, with 1.5 hours of actual IFR time. Who is most experienced? Who gets the regional job? The answer is not the same.

 

[jmreii]

Johnny O was a crabby little man when I was there 16 years ago so what else is new!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

These RAA clowns signed on the line that was dotted when they came up with those rules. They were the only ones on the ARC with objections. Just like 117, they blame the government and then tug a congresses skirt and say Joe six-pack constituent won't be able to fly between Podunk and BFE.....

Shameful

 

[sniper]

Yeah, I'm sure Congress really cares what he has to say... Pot calling the kettle black...

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2014-05-14/mesas-ornstein-expresses-disgust-washington

He is an idiot anyhow

 

[doh]

He'll divide it up any way they want...BS. The tiny little pie he puts out there assures there is nothing to divide in the first place.

 

[WSurf]

11 years ago..... JO why do you pay your pilots such low wages? JO's response, "I can fill every new hire class with pilots, so I pay my pilots enough."

 

[Freebrd]

JO's response, "I can fill every new hire class with pilots, so I pay my pilots enough."

Unfortunately true then and recently. Hopefully we're in a turn for the better. Man, XJT is so screwed up right now. Can't wait to get out!

 

[sstearns2]

Congress needs to just pass a simple law that states that if an airlines name is on the airplane then the airplane must be operated by, maintained by, and supported by people directly empolyed by that airline.

Scott

 

[Mercyful Fate]

Unfortunately true then and recently. Hopefully we're in a turn for the better. Man, XJT is so screwed up right now. Can't wait to get out!

Talk to Genital, he will hook you up

 

[IBNAV8R]

The only purpose of regional airlines is to suppress wages for employees of real airlines. All employees, not just pilots.

Because 50 passenger average load always justifies sending in a 737 or bigger - because airlines are in business solely to placate whiny pilots. Or maybe those very employees REFUSED to stoop to flying little-bitty panty-waist airplanes.

 

[chqflyer]

Because 50 passenger average load always justifies sending in a 737 or bigger - because airlines are in business solely to placate whiny pilots. Or maybe those very employees REFUSED to stoop to flying little-bitty panty-waist airplanes.

Not every Podunk town in America should have air service. 99% of Americans live within a two hour drive of a major airport. Get in the ********************ing car and eliminate the need for the ********************ing RJ that's gonna be weight restricted and maintenance delayed anyway.

 

[NEDude]

"In a pre-convention interview with AIN, RAA vice president Scott Foose dismissed charges that the shortage of pilots has resulted from the regionals' low starting pay, and asserted that a pilot's lifetime career earnings compare favorably with many professions requiring similar levels of education."

While this quote may be true (I do not know for sure), it fails to take into account the affect of massive starting debt and the effect of deferred payments on that debt for the first 5-10 years of a career while making piss-poor wages at a regional. Our career earnings may be similar to others with comparable education or training, but our career debt is higher.

 

[Ops check good]

the ********************ing RJ that's gonna be weight restricted and maintenance delayed anyway.

You are a real piece of work. Regional aircraft are maintained to the exact same standards that the majors are held to. You think you deserve more pay and you spew garbage like that???

 

[chqflyer]

You are a real piece of work. Regional aircraft are maintained to the exact same standards that the majors are held to. You think you deserve more pay and you spew garbage like that???

So, you have NEVER seen an RJ be weight restricted on certain hops in or out of BFE on weather days? Hell, some routes I flew were pretty tight on CAVU days. You've NEVER seen some RJs literally held together with speed tape? You've NEVER experienced the "it's legal, therefore it's safe mantra"? The "one level of safety" is a nice catch phrase thrown around by the Feds and RAA when they need a sound bite for the nightly news. Anyone with a slightly functioning brain stem knows the reality is far different. I have been threatened with disciplinary action on more than one occasion for refusing questionable sign offs. I seriously doubt a pilot at Delta or American has their job threatened every time they question a sketchy corrective action in the book.

 

[WSurf]

I seriously doubt a pilot at Delta or American has their job threatened every time they question a sketchy corrective action in the book.

Sure they have! smh

 

[WSurf]

The problem with regional airlines is what they have become. Which isn't regional anymore. They used to be a fleet of Metro's, BE1900, Dash 8, Jeststream's, ATR's that connected smaller cities that had smaller runways and connected them to big hubs.

Then all the sudden met the 50 RJ's... Now you have a plane that started supplementing mainline flying to bigger airports with big runways to the hubs.

And now we have today. CRJ 900 and EMB 175's totally doing mainline flying. 2,000nm range with wifi and pax powerports.

 

[Freebrd]

And ugly FAs. Just like the majors.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Not every Podunk town in America should have air service. 99% of Americans live within a two hour drive of a major airport. Get in the ********************ing car and eliminate the need for the ********************ing RJ that's gonna be weight restricted and maintenance delayed anyway.

If there is a market, it will be filled. Like I said, if the market consists of average loads of 65, it's utterly stupid to to use an airplane that holds twice as many - even if it costs only 1/3 more. It's simple economics. That holds true whether the stage length is 50 miles or 2,000.

What is time worth to you? Do you place a value on time? What would you be willing to pay to save four hours of driving every time you had to make a trip? Mileage? Gas? Parking? Extra meals? Hotel? Missed soccer games, little league, dance recitals, anniversaries? Would YOU drive two hours make a two or three leg commute to avoid flying one leg on an RJ from an airport 20-minutes from your house?

What you suggest is that the traveling public drive whatever distance you deem appropriate, wasting THEIR valuable time and expense and fly to some city they can't stand, in order to change planes - just so you can fly what you think you deserve at a rate that still won't make you happy.

Cheers,

 

[chqflyer]

If there is a market, it will be filled. Like I said, if the market consists of average loads of 65, it's utterly stupid to to use an airplane that holds twice as many - even if it costs only 1/3 more. It's simple economics. That holds true whether the stage length is 50 miles or 2,000.

What is time worth to you? Do you place a value on time? What would you be willing to pay to save four hours of driving every time you had to make a trip? Mileage? Gas? Parking? Extra meals? Hotel? Missed soccer games, little league, dance recitals, anniversaries? Would YOU drive two hours make a two or three leg commute to avoid flying one leg on an RJ from an airport 20-minutes from your house?

What you suggest is that the traveling public drive whatever distance you deem appropriate, wasting THEIR valuable time and expense and fly to some city they can't stand, in order to change planes - just so you can fly what you think you deserve at a rate that still won't make you happy.

Cheers,

Ummm, where exactly did I say this had anything to do with me deciding what routes to fly and for whatever rate I deem appropriate? I have no ********************ing say in how the airline universe operates. It's well outside the realm of simple economics that airlines will throw away extreme amounts of money on routes that don't stand a chance of ever making money just to preserve market share or to have bragging rights.

Dirtbags like JO and his ilk are simply lashing out because the endless supply of starry eyed 250 wonders willing to go into 100k of debt in exchange for a 20k a year job is gone. In an ideal world, all regionals will cease to exist. If a company sells a ticket from point a to point b, it's employees should provide the service, not some third rate POS scumbag outsourced company.

And yes, I do realize that includes my job going away. That's life. I'm entitled to absolutely nothing except finding a different job. If I do, great. If I fail, that's my own ********************ing problem, no one else's.

 

[sniper]

JO with his f---- ups put Mesa into chapter 11
lets not forget that, 350 million is a lot of money mr known all

dont blame the 50 seat demand, blame your uneducated decisions and arrogance

 

[chqflyer]

JO with his f---- ups put Mesa into chapter 11

lets not forget that, 350 million is a lot of money mr known all



dont blame the 50 seat demand, blame your uneducated decisions and arrogance

My boss and his lackeys blew an unbelievable amount of money on a failed experiment with a certain Airbus operator. They sure paid themselves handsomely for their efforts. We haven't hit BK court yet, but will eventually. I'm curious about what uneducated decisions I've made to cause the current state of the regional industry, other than working for one of the lower tier companies. I have zero school or training debt and none of the execs asked my input on any of their business dealings. Myself and my coworkers are the ones who will pay the price for their failure. Last I checked, I don't have a golden parachute worth millions. I simply don't care what happens to this place, especially after my boss goes before congress and blames me for the abysmal FO pay.

 

[gojo]

JO with his f---- ups put Mesa into chapter 11
lets not forget that, 350 million is a lot of money mr known all

dont blame the 50 seat demand, blame your uneducated decisions and arrogance

Sometimes paving the way to bankruptcy is by design. Especially in this industry. Bankruptcy gives them the green light to shed or restructure leases, revamp labor contracts etc, and with the railway labor act we have very little leverage. Look at how much American had in the bank when they filed. The bankruptcy system as well as the railway labor act need to be changed.

 

[sniper]

Sometimes paving the way to bankruptcy is by design. Especially in this industry. Bankruptcy gives them the green light to shed or restructure leases, revamp labor contracts etc, and with the railway labor act we have very little leverage. Look at how much American had in the bank when they filed. The bankruptcy system as well as the railway labor act need to be changed.[/QUO








gojo.............nice avitar