Mesaba's race to the Bottom

[MesabaDriver]

Management's request for cuts puts us at the bottom of the pay and benefits scale for any regional carrier. Things that others sacrificed for, 2 years ago will be wiped out. I find it ironic that the same company that wants to put 130 or so pilots on the street and has threaten to sue furloughed pilots for training costs is offering some type of profit sharing in our new agreement. What will the profits be if no one wants to work here. Mesaba has never been a bottom feeder but managment has no problem turning us into one in order to line their pockets and keep big daddy NW happy. Lets go do some flying for other national and major carriers, since we are going to be one of the lowest paid, why not become whores at the same time. Mesa and Chataqua carry for god knows how many airlines. That E170 that they roll up on the ramp in at MEM sure looks nice crewed by Rebublic or what ever subsidary its it operating it. Although they get paid far less than the should be payed to fly it, we ought to be able to be competitive with our new pay rates if they get accepted. Here is my question to all those out there who fly for a regional that rapes you more and more everyday....If aviation safety is so critical and procedures are so technical, why do we insist on going with the lowest bidder, the least experienced pilots and why do we insist on rewarding bottom feeding regionals with all the flying. I think pretty soon the industry will be filled with nothing but junk like GJ (Trans States black eye), Freedom Jet (Mesa's Black eye). Thank god Mesaba piltos were smart enough to scope Big Scare in Montana to 19 seats. Whos gonna win the next race to the bottom. My vote MAIR and all its pawns. They will just have to race without me and alot of other pilots that actually care whats happens to Mesaba and its employees.

 

[airjackson]

Here's a question for you. What, exactly, was your number one reason for joining Mesaba when you began shopping your resume around the regional world.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Decent equiptment, good contract, great union representation. Hoped to get in at the begining of growth since we hadnt had any in five or so years figured we were due. Lived in MSP at the time. Just you average surface observatioin reason.

 

[airjackson]

I wish you guys the best. I've enjoyed meeting your MEC chairman on several occasions, and he has worked hard to support many of us at other carriers. Unfortunately, your management has no-doubt been taking notes from other management teams on how to tear apart pilot contracts and it seems that they have all of us over the collective barrel. Good luck.

 

[miles otoole]

Here is my question to all those out there who fly for a regional that rapes you more and more everyday....If aviation safety is so critical and procedures are so technical, why do we insist on going with the lowest bidder, the least experienced pilots and why do we insist on rewarding bottom feeding regionals with all the flying. .

Are you saying Mesa or CHQ pilots are any less safe than Mesaba's because they are PAID less? When you got your private license, did you ask about the prices or did you go to the highest priced school because in your theory, the more you pay, the better training and instruction you'll receive.

 

[wheelsup]

has threaten to sue furloughed pilots for training costs

I hope you're not serious. I would hope a judge would throw this out in a heartbeat...

~wheelsup

 

[MesabaDriver]

Its not about the pilots personally. Its about all pilot groups allowing managment to undercut us. These airlines that allow merger of non union lists inorder to pererve their job and sign TA's with low pay set a standard that all the other regionals follow. Ex. Fredom Jet and Go Jet. Its everywhere. We even had it with Big Scare when we went through our contract. We need to hold the line and say enough is enough.

 

[MesabaDriver]

I am sure that Mesa and all the others a safe and qualified. My issue isnt personally with one airline group its with the whole picture.

 

[CarRamRod]

Just look at your fellow employees

Look around at who you are working with. Are they there to better the industry in America or get their minimum time and jump ship(USA). I have given the jump seat to many regional pilots that are here to get the time and get out. They could give a squirt of pee what the future of their or any regional airline could be. They will agree to unreasonable wages and working conditions, just to get the time. If you are planning on staying in this country and would like to have a career in the future, we better stand together. If not I hear that many asian countrys are looking for 474 pilots. So my last jumpseater told me.......

 

[MesabaDriver]

Exactely, if we arent careful and stick together we will beocme expendable to the lowest bidder. We will be outsourced and flights will no longer be flown by American Pilots. Just like the flight attendants at NW with flights originating in Asia with Asian attendants. Its only a matter of time till it becomes standard practice.

 

[Mesabi Miner]

Let's all hold on for a minute and pipe down... Sometimes I honestly have to remind myself to do the same thing. My comments:

1. The lawsuit threat for collecting training costs from furloughed/notified furloughed pilot is real. Are they gonna see any of that money paid? No. FO's, don't pay it.

2. We haven't signed anything. Now is OUR chance to stall on a new contract. Management did it to us on our last one, now it's time to repay the favor. ALPA has NOT received the financial data they've requested from the company in order to even consider concessions.

3. Management's proposal of the other day is ridiculous and management knows that. They're just trying to ruff us up. In addition, they're asking for, say, 20%, in order that we come back with say, 10%. That's not gonna happen here. I don't know of one XJ pilot that will agree to anything over 0%. Too many 6+ year FO's, no career advancement, and they want to take away our slim salary too? Ughh... Nope.

4. Mr. Paul Foley, CEO of MAIR must go. He collects $700,000 per year for "managing" a holdings company that essentially does nothing. His salary is nearly double that of Doug Steenland, of NWA. Why? Would I feel different if Mr. Foley had established new flying for XJ? Absolutely! But last I heard, the only thing he's achieved is acquiring Big Sky, our multi-million dollar thorn in the side. Nothing personal against our Big Sky flight deck brothers.

Just a few thoughts. I would personally urge everyone at XJ to polish up the logbooks and think about other options. I hope it doesn't come to that, but I do hope that our MEC has the marbles to finally say "NO!" and threaten (even if deemed illegal by an 1113c judge) to STRIKE.

MM

Not ONE cent.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Foriegn mainline pilots make good money, in fact, give me their pay rates. It's outsourcing jobs that are mainline to regionals at significantly lower pay rates that's the problem; hence the NewCo threat. You can't have a nation wide list of alpa pilots, there will still be pilots and airlines going low cost non-ALPA. You need one solid list at each company with strong scope that prevents them from going to regionals in the first place. If NWA were to put together the list, how long do you think it would take for the other carriers to follow suit. We need to control how pilots get into this business just like doctors do. Then pilots won't be so willing to go out and fly for 17K a year when they know, it won't get them anywhere.

 

[filejw]

I'm not so sure you need a nation wide list but a nation wide contract with the same amendable date.That would be the start.Have to negotiation thu the Air Transport Association or similar that would be a start.Everybody with the same work rules and pay.

 

[another cfii]

Exactely, if we arent careful and stick together we will beocme expendable to the lowest bidder. We will be outsourced and flights will no longer be flown by American Pilots. Just like the flight attendants at NW with flights originating in Asia with Asian attendants. Its only a matter of time till it becomes standard practice.

Actually NW has been outsourcing FA on their Asia routes for a long time. If you hop on their flights originating from NRT to any asia destinations, it usually has more than a few asian FA. Though those FAs are not allowed to do any flying into the states, i.e. "protecting" the jobs of those FA in mainland.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I believe there are only 2 "mainland" flight attendants on each flight orginating out of NRT to stations beyond... been that way for years.

 

[MesabaDriver]

Yes, but how long before they allow them to touch mainland soil. Trust me if NW can save some money they will find another way around the job security of the current FA's. You think they care about our security or anyone but their own. I would be willing to say in the next ten years if not soon you will see US part 121/129 carriers originating flights to the US from foriegn countries that will hurt American based carriers. Its comming.

 

[xjhawk]

hey mesabi miner, good post! i agree! How could the delta bankruptcy judge be ready to give Comair a pay decrease to that above us while our company is asking our judge to put us at the lowest in the industry! I have already heard one of my friends at the company say...."at least we will get new jets and be a captain in a year or two" That sort of attitude will be our doom. People, talk to your fellow pilots, we cannot accept any reduction from our last "growth" contract. The company wanted 6 years, i saw we give it to them! I beleive this is a scare tactic, but tehy did a good job, i am lookin at not being a pilot anymore if this or any reduction is in order! those rates would be great for newco huh? amazing the rates go to 110 seats!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Thats just it if you agree to fly a/c with 110 seats at 13% less than 50 seats, you guys are NewCo. Management will do whatever it takes to get that flying to Mesaba. All you current Mesaba pilots will get the boot anyway as NWA pilots take those positions. Either way you lose, that why i've been trying to get you guys to side with mainline. If that happens, only some of you will lose, the top guys will have to go to other carriers to survive, while the younger guys will have to ride out the storm a little longer.

NWA piots are willing to go to Mesaba pay rates on NewCo a/c. They believe that if they keep scope they can get their money back easily. Yeah i will be going to NewCo either way, although i'd rather see you younger guys be brought up to the mainline early. Once those young guys hit the mainline list, their attitude towards pay rates will change. The slide will stop.

 

[N590MA]

Wheels-up,
Yea it's true. Our joke of a management team wants to hold the 21 pilots they furloughed to a training contract of $21,000 if they find another job. There is a huge question of whether this is even legal. I say FOOK up, if they put those pilots on the street they can hold them to this job.

We are so short of line pilots right now with all the down grades in training and the fo's leaving they are TRYING to junior man every body they can. I don't think they are having much luck!!!

Thanks goes to our MEC and the MECs at express jet and air wisconsin for working out a deal to give our furloughed pilot preferential interviews.

 

[N813CA]

would you go find the cheapest doctor