• NC Software is having a Black Friday Sale Event thru December 4th on Logbook Pro, APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook, Cirrus Elite Binders, and more. Use coupon code BF2020 at checkout to redeem 15% off your purchase. Click here to shop now.
  • NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Mesaba to lose Avro's

Diesel-9

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Posts
527
Total Time
18,885
NWA to park Mesaba Avro's

Northwest Airlines, Inc. ("Northwest") has provided Mesaba Aviation, Inc. ("Mesaba"), a wholly owned subsidiary of MAIR Holdings, Inc. (the "Company"), with Northwest's flight schedule for the period between October 31, 2005 and December 14, 2005. The schedule provides that nine of the Avro Regional Jets ("Avros") operated by Mesaba will be removed from service. Additionally, on September 21, 2005, Northwest provided Mesaba with written notice of its intent, effective December 20, 2005, to terminate the leases between Northwest and Mesaba for all 35 of the Avros operated by Mesaba. The termination of these leases and subsequent removal of the Avros from Mesaba's fleet will result in a substantial decrease in Mesaba's revenue and will have a material adverse effect on the Company's financial results.
 
Last edited:

Deli Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Posts
496
Total Time
googol
I am really sorry for the crews at Mesaba. I know this news coupled with the news that NWA missed their 20+ mil payment under BK sounds bad. I hope the best for Mesaba. This industry is sure a test of character.
Hey D9,
What is your take on NW's 55+ (Scope) flying? In light of the pay scales published by Jetblue, Delta, Us Air/AWA etc, Where are we going to weigh in on this? I wrote to the MEC saying we (NWA pilots) need to capture this flying like the Delta guys or we are going to be left behind. What do you say?
Deli
 

surplus1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Posts
5,649
Total Time
25K+
You should now have two causes to celebrate: 1) the demise of Mesaba; and 2) your ability to "capture" the flying @ $70 for a 12 yr captain.

Time to throw a celebration party.
 

Diesel-9

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2005
Posts
527
Total Time
18,885
D.G. How goes it? Just had a line check and got too much info to remember. Specualating we will be offered (new) industry rates to have the mainline flying the 70+ seaters. If company offers it they can begin to park Avro's etc... terminate leases on the 50 seaters, and quit selling fuel to the regionals a buck less than it cost NWA. That has to be 100's of millions in savings in transfering the SJ flying to mainline. Sounds like one of the EMB models, 70 - 90 seater. SCENARIO: Legacy's will have a 100's of the 100ish seat jets with pay at or lower than SWA, JB, and other LCC 's to compete against.. It spells jobs and a profitability. Interesting news today in oil futures and 26,000 short contracts. The price plunge could be sooner and a big help to all of us. the long traders are doing everything they can to run it up feeding false numbers to the media including China numbers 's. Fingers crossed!
 

rightrudder

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2002
Posts
505
Total Time
7000+
Maybe you guys can fly your Avros for UAL in the mountain markets. I know they haven't found a solution for replacing Air Wisconsin's lift.
 

Deli Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Posts
496
Total Time
googol
Hey D 9,
Very interesting. I am hoping the senior guys see the wisdom in this verses clinging to "the old ways" and causing themselves and everyone else (us) a lot of pain. Bring on the oil price plunge!

Hey Surplus 1,
You should now have two causes to celebrate: 1) the demise of Mesaba; and 2) your ability to "capture" the flying @ $70 for a 12 yr captain.
Time to throw a celebration party.


Neither of these is a cause to celebrate. I understand the impact on Mesaba crews and their families. I really do hope the best for them. We are all caught up in a food chain that is canabalistic by its nature. I have jumpseated with many of these folks and they are professional, nice folks. I am sorry that my company has the current "Lorenzo curse" That being said, I think 55+ seat flying should be at mainline. We could then compete (which is what it is all about right?) with the companies which have done such a good job of creating their niche. If Deisel 9's post above comes to fruition, NWA will be able to compete with Jetblue, SWA, and companies like Spirit, who have done so well. Good luck to all, but I hope my sorry ass is still in a cockpit (even at low wages) when it is all said and done.
Deli
 

redflyer65

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Posts
4,456
Total Time
8000
Good luck on the "capture". I don't see it happening. They will dump the pension, furlough plenty, and cut the pay rates dramatically to all that are still lucky enough to be on the property. I predict they will go after everything that they put out in that purposal that was circulated. Whether they do Newco or not is up for debate. The thing that pisses me off the most is that they will get whatever they want from the judge. Might as well be a rubber stamp.
 

Deli Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Posts
496
Total Time
googol
Good luck on the "capture". I don't see it happening. They will dump the pension, furlough plenty, and cut the pay rates dramatically to all that are still lucky enough to be on the property. I predict they will go after everything that they put out in that purposal that was circulated. Whether they do Newco or not is up for debate. The thing that pisses me off the most is that they will get whatever they want from the judge. Might as well be a rubber stamp.

Hey Redflyer.
I think management will do whatever is in their best interest. It looks like it could be in NW'S best interest to let mainline have the flying (possibly in newco with a flow thru) to simply save money. Time will tell. A massive pay cut hurts, but this industry has to find its "base" post 9-11 and that base may be that all legacy carriers become low cost carriers with international feed. I agree with you about the retirement. NW mgmt will dump that pension on the PBGC as soon as it is a good time to do so. I will be toast by then (if that is the route that the senior guys take) but there will be plenty of shame faced senior guys who drank the Kool Aid.
 

canyonblue

Everyone loves Southwest
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,314
Total Time
15000+
Deli Guy said:
If Deisel 9's post above comes to fruition, NWA will be able to compete with Jetblue, SWA, and companies like Spirit, who have done so well.

Doubt it. It would still be the same Northwest culture, and that shows, even with cheap labor. Until NWA can put their employees first, they can never compete with us. And I don't think that will ever happen, but it would be nice if they would try.
 

Deli Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Posts
496
Total Time
googol
Hey Canyonblue,
You got that right. That is the biggest problem NWA has. Even if we fight our way out, we still have to deal with the culture. When you work at NWA you have to live with it so you ignore it. The actual people (pilots, fa's etc) you work with are great. But it is kind of a trap in that the "culture" changes much too slowly. I have seen some good changes here, but the crowd that is running the show now is here to beat us to a pulp and the problem is it feels like they rather enjoy it.
 

castle bravo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Posts
283
Total Time
10000
NW mgmt will dump that pension on the PBGC as soon as it is a good time to do so. I will be toast by then (if that is the route that the senior guys take) but there will be plenty of shame faced senior guys who drank the Kool Aid.[/QUOTE]



Yup, and my heart sure bleeds for the poor red-book guys. Everyone could see this coming except them.
 

Mesabi Miner

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Posts
492
Total Time
10000
Amen

canyonblue said:
Doubt it. It would still be the same Northwest culture, and that shows, even with cheap labor. Until NWA can put their employees first, they can never compete with us. And I don't think that will ever happen, but it would be nice if they would try.

Canyon, you hit the nail on the head. Northwest Airlines will always fail because they haven't adopted a new culture. I guess it stands to reason since much of NWA and Mesaba management have direct ties to Frank Lorenzo and his philosophy of screwing the very people that make up the company. If only our managers could experience as much hardship as they impose on their employees.

MM
 

DenverDude2002

Ramp Rat
Joined
May 17, 2003
Posts
590
Total Time
56
If someone is smart they will pick up the avros and do flying into Aspen, they charge a ton for that route
 

castle bravo

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Posts
283
Total Time
10000
"
canyonblue said:
Doubt it. It would still be the same Northwest culture, and that shows, even with cheap labor. Until NWA can put their employees first, they can never compete with us. And I don't think that will ever happen, but it would be nice if they would try."


A large part of the problem certainly, but not completely. NWA had the same iron fisted and pathetic culture when Don Nyrop was running it, but under the notoriously frugal Nyrop, NWA had no debt and would have most likely been able to weather this storm intact- with or without it's culture. The real trouble started with the arrival of looters Checchi, Wilson and Malek.
 

Thedude

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2001
Posts
1,277
Total Time
8000+
filejw said:
Anybody remember Aspen Airlines?


Which one?...I used to work for one of them
 
Top