Mesaba Saab NDB's

[MEL'ed]

Company is saving money, bottom line.

Not with me flying NDBs. More than 10 degrees off and you must go-around. Fill the tanks up, we could be here for a while. I'll probably break out right over an AM radio station in the UP playing a football game or country music. After my 3rd failed attempt, the FO who just got his certificate and may be fresh at these approaches will get to try and most likely save the day. We must have super high mins to circle (in the name of safety), but we can shoot an NDB to charted mins......go figure. Time for me to go read and brush up on how to successfully fly an NDB approach.

 

[Raskal]

Not with me flying NDBs. More than 10 degrees off and you must go-around. Fill the tanks up, we could be here for a while. I'll probably break out right over an AM radio station in the UP playing a football game or country music. After my 3rd failed attempt, the FO who just got his certificate and may be fresh at these approaches will get to try and most likely save the day. We must have super high mins to circle (in the name of safety), but we can shoot an NDB to charted mins......go figure. Time for me to go read and brush up on how to successfully fly an NDB approach.

LOL, yeah, I think I offended my instructor a while back in week 1-all I kept hearing about was how the priority at XJ was safety, finally I got irritated enough to ask if that were the case than why in the world are we still shooting NDBs in actual and not GPS approaches with our older but very capable FMS'? Needless to say I didn't get a valid response.

 

[xjcaptain]

LOL, yeah, I think I offended my instructor a while back in week 1-all I kept hearing about was how the priority at XJ was safety, finally I got irritated enough to ask if that were the case than why in the world are we still shooting NDBs in actual and not GPS approaches with our older but very capable FMS'? Needless to say I didn't get a valid response.

What's unsafe about flying an NDB? There is absolutely nothing inherently unsafe about doing an NDB. The only issue might be pilot technique, but it's not really all that complicated.

As far as the Saab restriction, check with the Fleet manager. There are some limitations in the AFM that are currently preventing us from doing FMS approaches. It's not in the POM because since we are not allowed to fly GPS approaches, there is no requirement to explain why the limitation exists.

 

[Raskal]

What's unsafe about flying an NDB? There is absolutely nothing inherently unsafe about doing an NDB. The only issue might be pilot technique, but it's not really all that complicated.

As far as the Saab restriction, check with the Fleet manager. There are some limitations in the AFM that are currently preventing us from doing FMS approaches. It's not in the POM because since we are not allowed to fly GPS approaches, there is no requirement to explain why the limitation exists.

As I said earlier, I would like to find out about the fleet restriction-mostly out of curiosity.

As for the NDBs, no, there is not anything inherently unsafe about them. Though my technique is probably a bit rusty I can certainly get through it. However, though the approach itself isn't unsafe, choosing to use an approach based upon a relic of aviation navigation (these things are being decommissioned for a reason) when better options exist-both from a success percentage and, I still contend, a higher level of safety seems misguided.

If there is a fleet issue with the GPS approach, than there isn't really much to be done, but if the option exists I would be curious as to why it isn't at least being explored.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Company is saving money, bottom line. The ONLY reason those FMS' are even on now is because of NWA (their 9's are finally GPS also). The ONLY reason we aren't certified for GPS approaches is the cost of the training (developing an approved program and putting everyone through it).

They are very NOT gps....

 

[Raskal]

They are very NOT gps....

Say what?! 2 FMS on each, and actually turned on, no? Haven't heard a 9 ask for a heading when given direct in a long time. Maybe my mistake, but I had heard they are enroute gps now.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Say what?! 2 FMS on each, and actually turned on, no? Haven't heard a 9 ask for a heading when given direct in a long time. Maybe my mistake, but I had heard they are enroute gps now.

Acouiple weeks ago I heard a NWA dc-9 turn down a direct-to clearance and get a heading because of no rnav, maybe it was just deferred in that instance though.

 

[NuGuy]

Say what?! 2 FMS on each, and actually turned on, no? Haven't heard a 9 ask for a heading when given direct in a long time. Maybe my mistake, but I had heard they are enroute gps now.

Nope. No Nav GPS or FMS on the -9s. There's an internal one built in into the EGPWS, but you can't do anything with it.

Two VORs and one (sometimes 2) ADFs. Old school.

Nu

 

[WMUSIGPI]

That fancy little box in the DC-9 is strictly for ACARS nothing else.