Mesaba Saab NDB's

[ImbracableCrunk]

I just wanna know how dispatch should that suffix. . . T/SF34/GPS except the last ten miles.

Or what do you do if ATC clears you to a fix within that ten mile ring. "Tell him we're unable to proceed to REVUP because it's just too dang close to DTW."

Two words: Stu Pid.

 

[xjhawk]

Oh just peachy......NDB approaches. I love to hate them. That FMS is a nice for Situational awareness. As for why the no appraoch rule? who are we to question the FAA? Remember, we had a full day of class for the FMS while only a poster to get to know a system that tells us if we are safe to take off and land

 

[xjhawk]

OH, I just looked at the lastest vacancy....I wonder how junior this one is going to be.

 

[bri5150]

We aren't allowed to use the FMS for GPS approaches because of a Saab restriction. We can also go direct to a fix within 10 miles of the airport, we just have to be on a vector or be navigating to something else by the time we get to the 10 mile limit. All this is as per G. W. in the training department.

 

[Raskal]

We aren't allowed to use the FMS for GPS approaches because of a Saab restriction. We can also go direct to a fix within 10 miles of the airport, we just have to be on a vector or be navigating to something else by the time we get to the 10 mile limit. All this is as per G. W. in the training department.

Saab restriction? Where can I find out more on this? I don't think the manufacturer has anything to do with this, the FMS is Universal and the avionics are Collins. GPS certification has nothing to do with the airframe.

Company is saving money, bottom line. The ONLY reason those FMS' are even on now is because of NWA (their 9's are finally GPS also). The ONLY reason we aren't certified for GPS approaches is the cost of the training (developing an approved program and putting everyone through it).

 

[MEL'ed]

Company is saving money, bottom line.

Not with me flying NDBs. More than 10 degrees off and you must go-around. Fill the tanks up, we could be here for a while. I'll probably break out right over an AM radio station in the UP playing a football game or country music. After my 3rd failed attempt, the FO who just got his certificate and may be fresh at these approaches will get to try and most likely save the day. We must have super high mins to circle (in the name of safety), but we can shoot an NDB to charted mins......go figure. Time for me to go read and brush up on how to successfully fly an NDB approach.

 

[Raskal]

Not with me flying NDBs. More than 10 degrees off and you must go-around. Fill the tanks up, we could be here for a while. I'll probably break out right over an AM radio station in the UP playing a football game or country music. After my 3rd failed attempt, the FO who just got his certificate and may be fresh at these approaches will get to try and most likely save the day. We must have super high mins to circle (in the name of safety), but we can shoot an NDB to charted mins......go figure. Time for me to go read and brush up on how to successfully fly an NDB approach.

LOL, yeah, I think I offended my instructor a while back in week 1-all I kept hearing about was how the priority at XJ was safety, finally I got irritated enough to ask if that were the case than why in the world are we still shooting NDBs in actual and not GPS approaches with our older but very capable FMS'? Needless to say I didn't get a valid response.

 

[xjcaptain]

LOL, yeah, I think I offended my instructor a while back in week 1-all I kept hearing about was how the priority at XJ was safety, finally I got irritated enough to ask if that were the case than why in the world are we still shooting NDBs in actual and not GPS approaches with our older but very capable FMS'? Needless to say I didn't get a valid response.

What's unsafe about flying an NDB? There is absolutely nothing inherently unsafe about doing an NDB. The only issue might be pilot technique, but it's not really all that complicated.

As far as the Saab restriction, check with the Fleet manager. There are some limitations in the AFM that are currently preventing us from doing FMS approaches. It's not in the POM because since we are not allowed to fly GPS approaches, there is no requirement to explain why the limitation exists.

 

[Raskal]

What's unsafe about flying an NDB? There is absolutely nothing inherently unsafe about doing an NDB. The only issue might be pilot technique, but it's not really all that complicated.

As far as the Saab restriction, check with the Fleet manager. There are some limitations in the AFM that are currently preventing us from doing FMS approaches. It's not in the POM because since we are not allowed to fly GPS approaches, there is no requirement to explain why the limitation exists.

As I said earlier, I would like to find out about the fleet restriction-mostly out of curiosity.

As for the NDBs, no, there is not anything inherently unsafe about them. Though my technique is probably a bit rusty I can certainly get through it. However, though the approach itself isn't unsafe, choosing to use an approach based upon a relic of aviation navigation (these things are being decommissioned for a reason) when better options exist-both from a success percentage and, I still contend, a higher level of safety seems misguided.

If there is a fleet issue with the GPS approach, than there isn't really much to be done, but if the option exists I would be curious as to why it isn't at least being explored.

 

[cargoflyr69]

Company is saving money, bottom line. The ONLY reason those FMS' are even on now is because of NWA (their 9's are finally GPS also). The ONLY reason we aren't certified for GPS approaches is the cost of the training (developing an approved program and putting everyone through it).

They are very NOT gps....