Mesaba gets CRJ's

[Rook]

Any chance XJ would hire an off the street captain?

Rook

 

[Workin'Stiff]

There's always the "glamour", if you will, with the new toy in the fleet. But there are some definite positives of the jet vs turboprop. And for many of us, those positives of the jet become very appealing.

 

[fly4ever]

Rook,

I know you posted the street captain thing with a and I know you know there are a lot of us FO's that sat a lot of reserve over the past few years that cringe even hearing those words.

I'm glad we are in the position to be putting people in the left seat of the new aircraft that have experience in the NW system and in this region. Hopefully that will help us get accustomed to the new ac quickly. We are definitely looking forward to the opportunity to move up the ladder.

Respectfully,

Fly

 

[CptOver]

Doubt it Rook. With everything being stagnet here for the last couple of years, just about everyone has the upgrade time for the Saab, and most meet the Avro requirements. Everyone was just waiting for the shoe to drop and now their number to come up. I have heard the first Vacancy with CRJ slots will be in June, time will tell on how senior it goes. If it does go senior though, I wouldn't doubt the Avro starts to go junior again. Only a $5 hour difference between 7 year captain pay and the schedule for a 7 year CRJ captain will undoubtly be better than a 7 year Avro captain on reserve.

 

[Rook]

Oh well...could always dream. I start up tomorrow so I got more beer to finish. Cheers XJ.

Rook

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I would imagine that initally XJ will use the CRJ sims in MEM. I believe that there are 3 installed and running now.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

It was stated in our conference call that we are going to utilize training initially in Montreal.

 

[Rook]

Yeah you guys might end up getting cooties from the guys at 9E.

Rook

 

[fly4ever]

Thanks Rook and others for the positive mesages.

I doubt, especially after the "Internal Memo"-gate message from Pinnacle management, you will see any XJ people in the corporate or training facilities of Pinnacle. Probably by order of NWA

It was stated in the conference call that the initial classes would be in Montreal and with the investment in our own training center and SOC I don't think it will be too far in the future that we will have the sim(s) in MSP.

C-Yaaa

Fly

 

[CubanSmoker]

Anyone care to post the internal 9E memo? I didn't get a copy of that memo! My TPS reports are screwed!

 

[justmeinmsp]

Here ya go. Just keep in mind that this is from 9E management not 9E pilots. Congrats on finally getting them.



This evening, Northwest Airlines informed us that it has awarded Mesaba with 15 CRJs. These aircraft are new deliveries, and the time frame for operation is not publicly available at this time.

The diversification of CRJ operations by Northwest has been anticipated over the past few years. All major airlines, with the exception of Continental Airlines, have integrated a number of regional carriers into their operation. This is a pragmatic move, taken in order to limit the mainline’s exposure in the event of a work stoppage, and to instill competition among their regional providers.

As an example, those of you who have been in the airline industry for a few years may recall that Comair, who operates exclusively as a Delta Connection, suffered a strike by its pilots a few years back. Comair was Delta’s largest regional affiliate, and fully operated a number of markets. When the strike came, Comair was forced to close these markets entirely, deriving Delta of the revenue and forcing them to refund or re-route thousands of customers for about three weeks. Since that time, mainline carriers have elected to not just diversify operators, but it is common to have multiple operators into every market.

It is important to note that Mesaba offered significant incentives to Northwest to operate these aircraft. In fact, these incentives greatly exceeded what we considered to be fiducially responsible for Pinnacle. One of our Guiding Principles requires that we are financially responsible. Pinnacle will not risk our current operations and the livelihood of our People for a relatively minor gain. Rather, we continue our efforts as laid out in Flight Plan 2005 – launching a second line of business, and developing an operation that will allow us to operate 70- and 90-seat aircraft among others.

We congratulate Mesaba on the award and wish them the best of luck. We have a long-standing history of working jointly with Mesaba, primarily in ground handling and customer handling. Given the relative number of aircraft awarded, and the time frame required to add these to their certificate, replacement of any flying will be minimal and no disruption to our hub operations, Maintenance & Repair Operations (MROs) or domiciles is expected.

Over the past several years, the People of Pinnacle have undertaken a remarkable effort on behalf of Northwest Airlines. We have expanded Available Seat Miles over 700% in the past four years, having integrated 123 CRJs into our system. Our contribution to the Northwest network has been historic and monumental, as we have developed new routes, supplemented existing routes or replaced NWA service into routes that were not commercially successful. We are a vital part of the Northwest business model. We are proud to be a part of Northwest Airlines.

Have a safe and successful week. As always, please do not hesitate to contact me at [email protected] or (901) 348-4257, or any member of the Senior Staff if we can provide further information.

 

[DoinTime]

I would imagine that initally XJ will use the CRJ sims in MEM. I believe that there are 3 installed and running now.

I know we at PNCL are required to utilize Flight Saftey's services for all sim training. Anyone know if Mesaba's contract with Pan Am is also exclusive?

Your initial cadre will get typed in Montreal but then you'll have to move the training in house.

 

[CurlyD777]

"Pinnacle will not risk our current operations and the livelihood of our People for a relatively minor gain. Rather, we continue our efforts as laid out in Flight Plan 2005 – launching a second line of business, and developing an operation that will allow us to operate 70- and 90-seat aircraft among others."

What's this all about?

 

[Irish Pilot]

so will most new hires get the CRJ and MSP then?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Pinnacle is in the process of starting a second certificate in order to fly more/bigger planes for other carriers.

 

[LivinDaDream]

New hires will go about 50% CRJ and the rest will be split between the other two A/C as current FO's upgrade to Saab or maybe even CRJ Captain (we have some very senior FO's).

 

[schmitty340]

we have one of those second certificates at mesaba...(called bigsky).. The only thing your company wants to do is bring in another threat ( another, Maybe/ maybe not non-union, group of pilots to whipsaw with you while you go through contract talks.) good luck to all 9E, you guys and girls have a long road ahead.


if they do start up a second cert to fly 70-90 seaters, I hope 9e pilots actually fly them..(remember freedom? )

 

[avrorj-85]

To the folks at PCL, if your management want another certicate so bad we here at XJ are willing to just GIVE you our Big Sky Prize. We'll even throw in Axle, er I mean Paul Foley to go along with it.

Good luck to all the 9e folks in negotiations. This game plan that NWA management uses with its regionals to negotiate is getting really old.

 

[othello]

schmitty340, hit it on the head.

Any 9E pilot that thinks this "new Certificate" will be a good thing for current pilots, umm your wrong.

It will cost you big time at contract time. You will wipe your slate of goals off. It will turn in to how do we scope the new ceritficate away from our current routes and planes.

I would say that there is a fair chance that Mair holdings would have a price tag on BigSky already just waiting for the 9E managment to offer the cash.

 

[dondk]

New hires will go about 50% CRJ and the rest will be split between the other two A/C as current FO's upgrade to Saab or maybe even CRJ Captain (we have some very senior FO's).

Why does not all new hires go to the Saab? Having a new hire over step a senior XJ pilot is just wrong.. I am sure some of those Saab drivers would like to get in to a new aircraft. Is MSP a junior Saab base?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Are all FO's at Mesaba paid the same, regardless of aircraft? I seem to remember that the jet and saab FO's have the same pay rates.... was wondering if this also held true (or untrue...depending on my memory) for the CRJ rates.

 

[Dodge]

Here's the deal with the current XJ FO's.

1. When hired, all FO's are seat locked in whatever a/c they were hired into for 3 years, unless they can upgrade to a captain position.

2. If unable to upgrade after 3 years, FO's can bid another FO position; then seat locked for 2 years after the completion of IOE.

3. All FO's are paid the same rate for their longevity, no matter the a/c. It's called the crapola clause in Section 3.

Since most of XJ's current FO's have 3-7 years of seniority, I seriously would doubt that too many current FO's would voluntarily go to another FO position for a mandatory 2 years with new planes arriving and the chance of upgrading. I would bet that ALL CRJ FO positions will be filled by newhires.

 

[fly4ever]

Dodge is probably right although an exception might be senior FO's in MSP. They want to stay in MSP and if the planes are allocated more to the MSP side first they may take the seat lock because they can fly something new and be senior on it at the same time.

 

[DoinTime]

Since most of XJ's current FO's have 3-7 years of seniority, I seriously would doubt that too many current FO's would voluntarily go to another FO position for a mandatory 2 years with new planes arriving and the chance of upgrading. I would bet that ALL CRJ FO positions will be filled by newhires.

Wow....XJ seat locks apply to new fleet types that are brought on to the property?

The additional 2 year seat lock after transitioning restricts pilots from upgrading?

Where are these great work rules I always hear about?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

This would be good for the first new hires on the CRJ. Despite their low company seniority they will be really senior in their seat. Of course this will only make a difference if there are good schedules to be had.

 

[AvroJockey]

Wow....XJ seat locks apply to new fleet types that are brought on to the property?

The additional 2 year seat lock after transitioning restricts pilots from upgrading?

Where are these great work rules I always hear about?

The same work rules that are going to make me over $70000 this year as a $54/hr junior Saab Captain.

It's nice to have min day, block or better, full cancelation pay, and premium pay.

For new hires it's even better! Employee with benefits at day 1, hotel and full pay during training, first class training from pilots who actually have line flying experience in the aircraft.......the list goes on and on.

 

[DoinTime]

It's nice to have min day, block or better, full cancelation pay, and premium pay.

Work rules that impact your QOL go way past compensation provisions.

- Ask the FO that is locked into the right seat while upgrades are available how much money he is making due to work rules.

- Ask the low seniority FO in how great his life is on reserve commuting from MSP to MEM while pilots junior to him are senior line holders in the city where he lives.

These are QOL issues, not whether or not you made an extra .9 hours on a canceled turn.

 

[saabtrash]

Dude, shut up.

 

[xjcaptain]

Work rules that impact your QOL go way past compensation provisions.

- Ask the FO that is locked into the right seat while upgrades are available how much money he is making due to work rules.

- Ask the low seniority FO in how great his life is on reserve commuting from MSP to MEM while pilots junior to him are senior line holders in the city where he lives.

These are QOL issues, not whether or not you made an extra .9 hours on a canceled turn.

It's obvious that you are much happier at 9E than you could possibly be at XJ. I think I'll take my chances where I'm at.

 

[Dodge]

Work rules that impact your QOL go way past compensation provisions.

- Ask the FO that is locked into the right seat while upgrades are available how much money he is making due to work rules.


- Ask the low seniority FO in how great his life is on reserve commuting from MSP to MEM while pilots junior to him are senior line holders in the city where he lives.


These are QOL issues, not whether or not you made an extra .9 hours on a canceled turn.

Question: What is 9E's contract language regarding FO's bidding other FO positions? It must be way better than this.

The FO's that switched seats knew that this was a possiblilty when they did it. As there is no difference in pay, these FO's have nothing to be complaining about. They knew the risks. All in all, I believe there is less than 30 pilots that have done this.

As far as the guys commuting, change your pref card or move. The funny thing about seniority is that it works on seniority.