Mesaba files 1113c motion today

[YourPilotFriend]

If the CBA goes, does the BigSky 19 seat scope go with it? I'm not trying to stir anything this time, I just was wondering if someone informed on this mess could interject.

I think this whole situation smells funny, and I hope you guys tell em to stick it where the sun don't shine, and I don't mean Minneapolis.

I read the 1113(c) filing on mesaba-restructuring.com the motion to reject the CBA also has the scope agreement with MAIR in it. It's likely this is under attack because MAIR plans to start a new subsidary(NewCo perhaps). Like NWA Mesaba has more senior people, MAIR can't hire first year people with this letter intact. Another management tactic thats becoming new is fragmentation, by forming multiple companies, you can keep pilots at low seniority wages.

 

[Inconceivable]

Sad to say, but yelling "STMFD" is not going to help.

If mainline sorts out their problems and continues to fly, Wychor will do what ever Duane tells him to do--and that will be to shut up and continue to provide feed to NWA. Even if you vote down a TA it can still be ratified by the MEC against your wishes.

Ask any TSA pilot who was around in 2000--their sh!t contract was voted down by the membership and then imposed upon them by ALPA national, led by the TWA MEC.

Kept them alive for another whole 15 months. Meanwhile that contract continues to pull down the industry at the regional level.

 

[fieldinsight]

Meanwhile that contract continues to pull down the industry at the regional level.

Until the bar is lowered. As others have said, Mesaba pilots have the power to do what the NWA mechs did not.

BTW, I see mini-me is reading. Thats a nickname for a certain CP. One and the same?

 

[MINIME]

It's coming down to self help in a way. We all need to realize that the time for good faith negotiations with these managements may be coming to an end very fast! Striking when the time is still right, meaning they haven't had time to transfer assets or train replacements, will be the only option for us to ultimately save our way of life. If you don't already have the stomach for a strike than I suggest you start building one. I predict that at least 50% of the regionals will have no choice but to strike in order to remain respectable. The ones that don't, will ultimately resemble or replace the likes of Mesa as far as compensation. I believe these to be the hard, uneasy facts. Let's start saving our money if we can, and prepare so that there won't be excuses not to stand strong and united when and if the time comes.

 

[MINIME]

BTW, I see mini-me is reading. Thats a nickname for a certain CP. One and the same?[/quote]

Naw, that is if you're refering to moa. If not, me sorry for hijack..

 

[MINIME]

hmmmm. screwed up again

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The regionals are obviously in the worst possible scenario. Any type of strike/liquidation at any of the higher paid regionals, would result in the bar further lowering nationally. Also with standard fleet types replacement employees would not be an issue.

Also the new ALPA proposal at mainline allows for certificated 70 seat a/c. We will not allow the 90 converted to 76 seat a/c. Unless NWA can't own or lease out these aircraft. I'm oppposed to this, and I can't understand our MEC's position.

 

[Mel Sharples]

Also the new ALPA proposal at mainline allows for certificated 70 seat a/c. We will not allow the 90 converted to 76 seat a/c. Unless NWA can't own or lease out these aircraft. I'm oppposed to this, and I can't understand our MEC's position.

Your information is always rumor based and never fact based. Maybe you should just relas for a while.

FYI, the 705 is certified for 75 passengers so it is not a "90 converted" in terms of certification, no matter what the configuration is.

Go start rumors on the majors board. We are tired of you here.

 

[fieldinsight]

Naw, that is if you're refering to moa. If not, me sorry for hijack..

Nah, I was referring to CW in DTW...

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Your information is always rumor based and never fact based. Maybe you should just relas for a while.

FYI, the 705 is certified for 75 passengers so it is not a "90 converted" in terms of certification, no matter what the configuration is.

Go start rumors on the majors board. We are tired of you here.

Not a rumor but factual information. It's a one to one exchange, if a narrow body jet is bought for mainline, one 70 seat airplane can be outsourced.

 

[MINIME]

The regionals are obviously in the worst possible scenario. Any type of strike/liquidation at any of the higher paid regionals, would result in the bar further lowering nationally. Also with standard fleet types replacement employees would not be an issue.

Your point is well taken and is indicative of some possible outcomes. However, this is exactly the type of fear that the higher-ups want us to think about before taking any action. Besides, if it came down to it, doesn't NWA alpa have a moral and perhaps legal responsibility to honor a strike by one of its regional partners? Isn't that the case for any airline out there that is also alpa or union for that matter? If the so called rules are followed in case of such an event, management would have a harder time finding those already qualified people I assume.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Your point is well taken and is indicative of some possible outcomes. However, this is exactly the type of fear that the higher-ups want us to think about before taking any action. Besides, if it came down to it, doesn't NWA alpa have a moral and perhaps legal responsibility to honor a strike by one of its regional partners? Isn't that the case for any airline out there that is also alpa or union for that matter? If the so called rules are followed in case of such an event, management would have a harder time finding those already qualified people I assume.

Maybe this would have been true when the regionals were commuter airlines. The fact of the matter is regionals are becoming LCC's, with long range jets that are bcoming midsize. Myself and many other mainine pilots see this as competition, if you strike, it's in our best interest to see you fold. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not attacking the employees of the regional. The ultimate nightmare scenario for this career is to have fragmented companies where you spend say 5-10 years at a regional, only to move up to a low paying domestic position. Then, after 15-20 years you have to move again to a decent paying job at an international portion, all the while starting back at year 1 wages.

If say NWA were to get it's plan, your career structure would look like this, granted you stay at NWA. Start off at XJ/9E, then move to NewCo, then move to NWA domestic, then NWA atlantic, then NWA pacific. Thats a total of five times that you have to start over at the bottom. Taking into account the avergae career length of a pilot, you would never make past 3rd year wages.

 

[Peanut Chaser]

If we agree to paycuts, they win, Period! Not one penny!

 

[fly4ever]

YPF,

You are being very shortsighted just as the NW pilot group was when the mechanics went on strike. If we have to strike and we fold as a company there will be another company which will take over our feed and will do it for less. This will put even more pressure on mainline work groups, especially the pilots, to give up even more over time.

Why don't you help your MEC wise up along with Duane Worthless and understand that standing by others in the red tail family is your only hope.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

YPF,

You are being very shortsighted just as the NW pilot group was when the mechanics went on strike. If we have to strike and we fold as a company there will be another company which will take over our feed and will do it for less. This will put even more pressure on mainline work groups, especially the pilots, to give up even more over time.

Why don't you help your MEC wise up along with Duane Worthless and understand that standing by others in the red tail family is your only hope.

Actually, i'm taking a different approach then all that. The market for 50 seat jets is tanking and NWA needs replacement aircraft for the 9. Now I know we can't get those 70 seaters to mainline, we have to give them out. It's out of the scope contract to outsource this flying. Now what I'm saying is put together the entire list based on DOH. I'm looking to save this profession, not fragment it. If NWA has to die over this issue it will, however I fear the widebody guys will opt out and go for the NewCo deal. Actually, I fully expect to be sold out by the senior guys.

It's not the 20 year old FO who takes the $20,000 job, but the senior guy who let it happen. I don't think pilots realize that brand scope fixes every single problem that we are facing.

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE, even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So you can take that and shove it up your azz. This is a completely differant battle from our contract negotiations and all our line pilots know that even if you don't. Hoffa style baby! My Louisville is ready!

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs, this is

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs, this is not like

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs, this is not like our contract

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs, this is not like our contract negotiations,

 

[Monster Buck]

Union Strike or not. If there is a vote to change our contract for the worse, I already have a rubber stamp make that says NO, GO F YOURSELF! Even if somehow the company finds a way to impose a contract and keep us from taking a legal strike I for ONE and even if I am the only one, will not show up to work. And to any managment types reading this...If you succeed and stopping a strike with some legal bs and impose your bs contract ENOUGH OF OUR PILOTS WILL NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK AND KILL THIS PLACE WITH OR WITHOUT AN OFFICIAL STRIKE. So go ahead and keep up with the bs, this is not like our contract negotiations, it is

 

[Yudso]

Say again.

 

[xjhawk]

finally someone is talking sense, i read in the paper that Wycor even said that we will be forced to strike if they modify our contract through so called legal means (IE 1113c filing) we reserve the right to choose what we work for, and i am working here under the last contract, not under one imposed on us by some juducial system which is run by corporations. It seems to me, that whats happening to us is a copy of what is happening at NWA, but the difference as so bluntly put to me by a retired NWA pilot "it does not matter if you guys shut down, NWA will still be around"

I ask this.....where is ALPA? oh yes.....they have their priorities.....and we are not on that list.

so when the judge imposes this rediculous sh!t on us, and i do not show up for work....i beelive they will fire me.....so that means i get unemployment?

What was that address? oh yes....Monster.com or.....jobs.com i beleive i can make 25 grand a year almost anywhere....

 

[saabservant]

Give YourPilotFriend a cigar!

Quote: "It's not the 20 year old FO who takes the $20,000 job, but the senior guy who let it happen. I don't think pilots realize that brand scope fixes every single problem that we are facing".

YPF: That is so true. I have heard this said many times, but when will it happen? Mclain even wrote about it in alpa's magazine two years ago, but did they fight for it? Are they now? If history predicts the future, the seniors will once again sell out those junior, and the profession will circle further into the toilet...
I don't know whom to disrespect more- the mgmt pukes who are ruining this profession, or the major airline, ex-military squadron grab-ass society types who are letting them do it!!!

I for one will not fly a saab or a crj, or anything, for scale much lower than mesa's, and take the other cuts and pay 50% for health care. F*** em!
You guys at mainline are going to take a big revenue hit when we walk under imposed terms! Maybe it is time for courage and leadership, and unity from all our nwa carrier alpa leaders....

 

[YourPilotFriend]

In my opinion, NWA will not outsource to Mesa or any of the other current carriers. It's either 9E or XJ and if either one liquidates, a new one will be started from scratch; remember how 9E was created to whipsaw XJ. NWA dictates how much money it makes off its regional partners by how much it pays its regional partners. Whats happening here is through market changes XJ/9E are not generating the same revenue they were as before. Because NWA can't pay XJ/9E more money to make up the difference, they have two choices. Either: A. liquidate it and start up a whole new regional B. Buy it a completely new fleet one in which new terms can be set. At 9E they were charging what, $190,000 a month for a $90,000 airplane. I can't imagine what they are looking at in terms of an E170 or CRJ705.

Outsourcing to another current regional does not provide the flexiblity of the changing market we have. In XJ's case, management is going for the holy grail so to speak. Lower wages and airplanes with higher lease rates. This is just my take on the situation though.