MESA traning program?

[Superkell]

In Plane and Pilot I saw an add about MESA and a 19 week traning program. When I called the guy I spoke with said that they have hired 97 percent of the graduates. Has anyone out there trained in this program? if so did they hire you or is this just a scheme to get my money against overwelming odds? If you were hired how long did it take? Did the cost they quoted you hold up or did they tack on more traning and stuff like that?

Thanks
Superkell

 

[kevin_p]

PACE program

I am a current student in the "19-week" program...it's actually called the PACE program. To get in, you must have at least an associate's degree (they prefer a 4-year degree), 250 hours, and your instrument and commercial. I strongly suggest having your multi rating also. It was a requirement until recently. You also have to interview to get in, and for what it's worth, there were several from my interview date that didn't make it.

After being accepted, the PACE program is basically 12 weeks of ground school, which includes a multi-engine course, an instrument refresher course, and most importantly, a CRJ systems class similar to the one Mesa uses for its initial training (same powerpoints, manual, videos, etc). During this 12 weeks, you do some flying in a Baron and a Baron sim (Frasca 242). They estimate 10 hours in the plane and 20 hours in the sim, but if you are proficient and prepared, you won't need that much time. I would estimate 6-8 hours in the plane and 10-12 hours in the sim, but like I said, it all depends on how proficient you are at multi-engine instrument flying.

After you finish the ground school classes and the Baron flying, then you move on to the full-scale CRJ sim. (MAPD actually just got the sim in this week.) The CRJ sim training consists of Crew-Systems Integration (CSI), an oral test, then 40 hours actually flying the sim, including a module of line-oriented training at the end. The syllabus is actually designed to replicate the initial sim training Mesa uses to train its CRJ pilots. The whole CRJ sim portion is supposed to take 2-3 weeks.

After finishing the jet sim training, you are guaranteed an interview with Mesa. Historically, people from the program have done much better on the interview and in training than guys off the street. I'm not sure if the 97% figure is totally correct, but basically, it's your job to lose. I would still say the figure would be no lower than 90%. As long as you stay proficient and take the interview seriously, you have a job with Mesa. Then, especially if you're assigned the CRJ, almost all of the groundschool and sim training is review.

Now for the catch, the only thing that I see as misleading is the timeline they give you. 19 weeks may be technically correct if you add up all the training time, but it's not necessarily 19 consecutive weeks. There may be a lag between finishing the ground school and Baron portion of the PACE program and starting the CRJ sim. Right now, I'm looking at at least 2-3 months between the two. Even still, it's quicker than any other route to the regionals.

As far as cost goes, the tuition with San Juan college for the ground schools was $300. The Baron sim is $90/hr, the Baron is $206, the jet sim is $175/hr, and instruction is $25/hr. I'm not completely sure if you have to pay for all 40 hours in the jet sim or only for 20 since it's half left seat, half right seat. That would make a big difference in the cost of the program, but even assuming that you are charged for all 40 hours, I would estimate the program costing closer to $10K as opposed to the $12K they quote. They just want students to have enough money to start with so they don't have people drop out.

To ease your mind, no it's not just a scam. People from Mesa Pilot Development do get hired. The entire program is pay as you go, so you don't have to make a huge payment up front. Also, MPD is a division of Mesa Air Group, so they're not going to go bankrupt and shut their doors without warning or anything.

Anyway, you can also check out www.flightcareers.com/pace/htm but it's a bit outdated. If there are any questions that this novel didn't address, let me know!

Kevin
[email protected]


Disclaimer: This info is only about the PACE program...I know nothing about the ab initio program that Mesa also offers, except that it is MUCH more expensive!

 

[145EXR]

so let me get this straight...you guys pay 12K to "hopefully" get a job with one of the lowest paying airlines out there????????

 

[sligo1]

No time No Job Unless You Have Cash

I can't believe that you could be foolish enough to actually buy the bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** that an ab-intio student is more qualified for a job at Mesa or any airline. The market is full of more than qualified pilots who have tons of line experience in a CRJ or larger. These PFT scams have been going on forever. The same type of program exists at the Comair Acadamy. At least there those people flight instruct, but once again usually have no experience in anything larger than a Seminole or Baron. Too many good pilots looking for work that are proven to survive training, as well as line flying. These people deserve employment first. Sorry but the old expression that you get nothing for nothing-still very true. Mesa gets low time pilots in a world full of qualified people? Makes sense to me- its not a scam or anything.

 

[islandhopper]

Re: No time No Job Unless You Have Cash

I can't believe that you could be foolish enough to actually buy the bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** that an ab-intio student is more qualified for a job at Mesa or any airline. The market is full of more than qualified pilots who have tons of line experience in a CRJ or larger. These PFT scams ... blah blah blah

Just for the record a PFT shop allows you to fly revenue 135/121 for your fee. PACE/San Juan wont let you anywhere near revenue operations except as a passenger, and even then you dont get to non-rev. (Cheap a$$ ba$tards!!) San Juan is a flight school they market their services by offering interviews if you train with them in Farmington, (or Phoenix or Midland) nothing more. Its a buisness and they make money. They may be "pimpin" things a bit, but its not a PFT scam.

PFT is when an airline gives you the right seat of one of their revenue airliners and you pay them to fly it. You should be getting paid to fly that not paying.

Other than that, Mesa really does suck as bad as everybody claims. Everything bad you heard about Mesa is true. It was never so clear how much it sucked at Mesa until I was finally at a company that treated me with respect and dignity. A hui hou

 

[SpocksBeard]

groan...sigh...

 

[bobbysamd]

Mesa

I was an MAPD instructor ten years ago. The program really does work. Students graduate with an A.S. in Aviation Technology from San Juan College, their ratings, and 300 hours. Most get interviews, and most MAPD interviewees get hired. It provides you with the opportunity to succeed, provided you don't blow it. MAPDers have a leg up on street hires because they've been indoctrinated in Mesa line procedures from their first day in the Bonanza. That does not guarantee their success in class; once you're in class at any regional you're on your own. I've heard of MAPD grads who wash out of ground school. Not to open this debate again, but MAPD is not P-F-T. The ratings you earn there are good anywhere.

Mesa has run a number of eager-applicant schemes. It had an ATP program when I was at MAPD. ATP candidates received one or two flights in the Barons and their ATP practical from a DE who was also a Mesa check airman. Those who passed the first time got a Mesa Airlines interview. Those who busted got a recheck but no interview. There were those who passed ...... and those who failed. It was clearly pay-for-interview complicated by the dice-roll of the checkride and examiners who was looking out for interests other than those of their applicants.

I also recall a predecessor to the PACE program. The objectives were similar, in terms of the training - and interview - provided. I would view with as much skepticism as possible Mesa's claims that it hires 97% of its PACE graduates.

One thing Mesa has always been good at is making money, and especially off job-seekers. It has been good at collecting exhorbitant application fees - though I do concede that app fees come with the territory of looking for airline jobs. Once more, I am not counting the regular 18-month MAPD program in my criticism of how Mesa churns career ambitions into profits.

 

[dondk]

In my class (non MAPD) we had 13 MAPD's join us. This was from an orginal 15 (2 did not make it) so the 97% could be considered a true number.

The MAPD people went through all of the training and were due to go to the CRJ. 2 days before class they (all) we assigned to the 1900. While they were grateful for a job they all were dissapointed of not getting the jet.

MESA will place people where they NEED them, not necessarily where you want to go or what training you may have received.

3 years later, of the MAPD people in my class all but 2 are still with MESA. Of the remaining 11... 1 is in the CRJ as an FO, 3 are in the ERJ as an FO the remaining are all 1900 Captains.

The only other comments I will make... those who went straight to the jet at 300 hours had attitudes that preceed them and needed attitude adjustments by some of the senior pilots.

 

[js31pilot]

Haven't we talked about this subject?.........Deja-voux I guess

Nevermind Carryon

 

[stillaboo]

Clearing things up

As long as you stay proficient and take the interview seriously, you have a job with Mesa. Then, especially if you're assigned the CRJ, almost all of the groundschool and sim training is review.

Uh, not quite. A guy I know is in GS with them now. Since 9/11/01, 5 MAPD grads have gotten the CRJ-200 (there were some who went to Freedom who I'm not counting). Most got the ERJ or 1900. Oh, and to dispell the 'everyone wants jets' idea, the last group of MAPD grads actually had to force Mesa to put them in the CRJ, since they all wanted the Dash 8.

Originally posted by sligo1
Too many good pilots looking for work that are proven to survive training, as well as line flying. These people deserve employment first.

And they're getting it first too. Typical class at Mesa right now is 40% UAL furloughs, 25% US furloughs, 30% MAPD grads, 5% street hires. As you can see, Mesa is employing furloughed mainliners big time (I doubt anyone else is hiring more mainliners than Mesa in right now). In fact, most MAPD grads might have to wait longer for GS b/c of it. UAL guys are 100% of the current 1900 class, in fact, and 1/2 of each CRJ class is US furloughs under the J4J program (the UA guys are hired as new hires and enjoy no special privledges with Mesa). Oh, and Mesa just brought all the CC Air guys back to work. Though Mesa has many faults, the experience level of their 'new hires' isn't one of them.

But anyway, the 97% is the % of guys from MAPD who interview that are hired. Not all of them make it to the interview. Once hired, MAPD grads are treated like anyone else (no seperate standards), and have generally been quite successful in making it through training and flying the line. As far as I can tell, MAPD training is not all smoke and mirrors.