MESA to fly for Delta???

[NYRANGERS]

Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

My friend I no longer have an airline. Lost it 3 years ago when it was bought. However, I still have a pilot group. Now tell me how I'm going to "help" it by allowing your pilot group to control its destiny and future? Should I just kiss where you'd like me to and count on your benevolence or should I just let my imagined sugar daddy in Herndon determine what's in my interest?

How do you come up with this **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**?? I am sorry (not) that your rjdc experiment is not going well. It never had any merit and many here tried to tell you guys that. They also said you need to focus your efforts on what is potentially happening with Mesa. That is the subject of this post.

I don't know where you come up with this...kiss, benevolence, sugar daddy stuff. You know what, forget it.......I don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**!

Further more, you should be happy if mesa gets some (if not all) DCI flying. It would mean we would have givin up some scope language and that should make you rjdc guys happy. That scope that you and you rjdc guys are trying so hard to destroy.........congratulations you may have what you wanted.

NYR

 

[T-Gates]

Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

My friend I no longer have an airline. Lost it 3 years ago when it was bought. However, I still have a pilot group. Now tell me how I'm going to "help" it by allowing your pilot group to control its destiny and future? Should I just kiss where you'd like me to and count on your benevolence or should I just let my imagined sugar daddy in Herndon determine what's in my interest?

The man (NYRangers) is trying to help you protect YOUR jobs. If Mesa comes in and undercuts the hell outta CMR and ASA rates, YOUR pilot group will disappear as well. DL only cares about money, they have no loyalty to the CMR and ASA pilot groups.

It's time to show some f@cking solidarity....

You think if you get rid of DAL scope that you will magically get all the 70-seaters you could ever want?! Hell No! Airlines like MESA would get them because they will operate them for 1/2 of your cost! Which DAL is starting to find out by outsourcing more and more of your flying to CHQ, and SKYW....

Scope exists for a reason, to protect Mainline jobs. Just as you are trying to protect you own jobs at CMR. How can you hold something against a whole pilot group that is only trying to keep thier jobs from being outsorced completely?

Grow up and stop blaming Herndon for all your problems.

Wouldn't you rather have ALPA Lawyers and Reps working on stopping JO from making a joke of the industry? Or do you just want to concentrate on what you and a very small majority of ALPA represented pilots want.....

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Amen to that T-Gates.

It's already happening, look at how many DCI carriers there are now? Five, and rumors of a sixth is in the mix for the "phantom 45".

NYRangers, I know you know this already, but not all of us at ASA and Comair are "beer-bonging the RJDC Kool-Aid".

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRangers, I know you know this already, but not all of us at ASA and Comair are "beer-bonging the RJDC Kool-Aid".

I am pulling for you guys on your new contract. I also think it would be best for Delta, comair and ASA if we (Delta, CMR and ASA) did all Delta flying. Surplus and his kind make it hard to keep my position, but then I think of the majority of you guys.

The only concern I have with regards to ASA is....How did John Brieling get elected to the MEC? Or I guess a better question than how is why.

Hopefully we can keep Mesa out of the Delta whipsaw, it won't be good for any of us.

Regards,

NYR

 

[Stifler's Mom]

The only concern I have with regards to ASA is....How did John Brieling get elected to the MEC? Or I guess a better question than how is why.

I have no clue other than there must be a silent majority lurking in the halls under the C-Concourse. My vote went for the runner-up.

 

[737 Pylt]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

Grow up and stop blaming Herndon for all your problems.

T-Gates:
Didn't you know that is what the rjdc does, it blames their problems on everyone else! Their claims are based on lies and twisted facts, and their case is crumbling before their eyes. It's just too bad they are single handedly destroying this industry led by that loser DF and his sidekick JB!

 

[T-Gates]

Couldn't agree more....

 

[becket]

It wouldn't surprise me if Mesa did fly for DAL,

A Virus has no choice but to spread. It is it's very nature.

 

[surplus1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

Wouldn't you rather have ALPA Lawyers and Reps working on stopping JO from making a joke of the industry? Or do you just want to concentrate on what you and a very small majority of ALPA represented pilots want.....

IF you just paid a little bit of attention you and others would realize that it is ALPA policy that resulted in the creation of Freedom, which in turn resulted in the Mesa contract that has pushed us all into this "low ball" race that you call a joke. That same policy was responsible for the creation of Republic, which decidedly "helped" the Chautauqua pilots to do what they did. They also manged to coerce PSA and destroy ALG and PDT in the process. It won't be long before Mesaba pays the price and is forced to fly cheaper than PCL, which will get its day at the bottom of the barrel when the time comes.

Whether you like or whether you don't those lawyers and reps haven't been working on stopping JO or anyone else like him at any regional airline. What they have been doing is fostering the devastation of regional pilot groups in support of their mainline counterparts, who have in fact not protected a single job as a result of their predatory scope.

I'm all for scope that protects jobs, i.e., the job you have -- not the one that you want at the expense of mine. So I guess I do have a problem -- I'm not suckered in by smooth talking politicians that would gladly eliminate everyone like me if they only had the chance. I don't wish them well and I don't care if that pysses them off. Maybe one day they will wake up when one or more of the small carriers they want to squash today, makes a successful low bid on their real flying tomorrow. Just wait until management realizes that they can put that flying up for the lowest bid as well. By then it will be too late.

Why do you think airlines like JBlue, AirTran Southwest and UPS won't join alpo? They are smart enough to recognize that if they do, they and their companies will be shafted in the interest of the union's power brokers. They are much better off by keeping their independent unions (JB will eventually form one) than they would be by accepting token membership in the Herndon country club. I can only hope they'll continue to maintain their independence and stay out of that quagmire. If they don't, they'll be swallowed by the quicksand just as all the other small carriers have been.

 

[Freight Dog]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

I'm all for scope that protects jobs, i.e., the job you have -- not the one that you want at the expense of mine.

Aren't all scope clauses meant to protect jobs?

Why do you think airlines like JBlue, AirTran Southwest and UPS won't join alpo? They are smart enough to recognize that if they do, they and their companies will be shafted in the interest of the union's power brokers. They are much better off by keeping their independent unions (JB will eventually form one) than they would be by accepting token membership in the Herndon country club. I can only hope they'll continue to maintain their independence and stay out of that quagmire. If they don't, they'll be swallowed by the quicksand just as all the other small carriers have been.

One thing surplus... you say that ALPA sold the regional pilots down the river and it's all for the mainline pilot groups. Using your argument, why WOULDN'T JB, AirTran, SWA and UPS join ALPA? They are all what you would call "mainline" carriers, so they should be the "privileged" ones using your logic. Ya know... no one to oppress them - they would be the oppressors of their poor regional affiliates. Too bad, with the exception of AirTran, none of them have regional affiliates. UPS has feeders flying Caravans and twin Cessnas so I won't even count those.

Take it easy!

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

First off I hope that I never see Mesa flying under DAL. Mesa DOES NOT offer the quality of service that Delta expects, just look at their operation for other carriers, its sub par at best. This company is a plague that just keeps infecting other carriers. Soon we will all be working for nothing or not even working at all because of this. BE AWARE the more that MESA grows the more possiblity your career has to shirink. I am not too worried because Delta i believe has eyes and can see what goes on with this CHEAP product. If you think this is a slander at MESA, youre right.

OH and hey i heard that J.O. gives his reserve pilots $4.75 an hour on your days off to come over and polish his 15 motorcycles...

 

[MedFlyer]

I don't think DL management really cares that much about quality considering that ASA, one of DL's own regionals, ranks dead last in just about every customer service field. The days of good service at DL have long since past.

DL is looking for cheap. If Mesa is cheap, they'll have a good chance. The only thing that could stop them is DALPA's contract.

 

[T-Gates]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MESA to fly for Delta???

IF you just paid a little bit of attention you and others would realize that it is ALPA policy that resulted in the creation of Freedom, which in turn resulted in the Mesa contract that has pushed us all into this "low ball" race that you call a joke.

Oh, I payed attention alright.....

ALPA's and the Mesa MEC policy was not to accept sub-par rates to fly the 70 and 90 seat jets! THATS what created Freedom! It was also the lack of job-protecting scope! Which you are trying so hard to break at DAL. Instead of Management giving in, JO created the ultimate whipsaw to break the pilot group. You cannot blame ALPA national for Freedom, that is very naive of you to even believe that....

That same policy was responsible for the creation of Republic, which decidedly "helped" the Chautauqua pilots to do what they did.

Now who's not paying attention.....

First off, CHQ is represented by the Teamsters, not ALPA. So how the HELL could ALPA national policy affect ther negotiations? I think Wexford management was the one taking the cue from another group (i.e. Mesa Management) in thier creation of Republic. I have not fully read the CHQ TA so I cannot comment on if it is anywhere near Mesa's TA.

They also manged to coerce PSA and destroy ALG and PDT in the process.

Didn't all 3 WO's agree to J4J? So, would I be off base to say that it was purely a descision of Airways management to give jets to PSA? I don't think so. All 3 took concessions, all 3 were ready to accept J4J, tell me how ALPA national screwed ALG and PDT on that deal...

It won't be long before Mesaba pays the price and is forced to fly cheaper than PCL, which will get its day at the bottom of the barrel when the time comes.

Now your talking out your ass.....

If anything, I think the consensus at Mesaba is that it is all or nothing on this contract. Ironically that was the same attitude your pilot group had pre-Strike. It seemed to work out for you guys! Why do you automatically assume the Mesaba pilots are going to lay down and let management take them down?! Someone has to set new precident...

As for PCL, we start contract talks late next year, but we have the same mentality that we need a significantly better contract. And most if not all of us are prepared to walk for it too.

Just becase one pilot group took a leap rearward doesn't mean that the rest of us do too.

I'm all for scope that protects jobs, i.e., the job you have -- not the one that you want at the expense of mine.

So you are saying that you want to trade someone else's lopsided opinion for your own?! That is more self-centered than anything you have accused DW and others at ALPA National of doing! So you now want to jeopardize the rest of our chances at getting Major jobs just so you can feel good for your final years at CMR? What a load of crap! Scope is protecting my future, not hindering yours.

 

[Freight Dog]

T-gates, it's useless arguing with surplus. I'm willing to bet that he'd find a way to connect the Kennedy assasination as some evil Herndon plot to oppress the regional pilots.

Watch him contradict himself:

I'm all for scope that protects jobs, i.e., the job you have -- not the one that you want at the expense of mine. So I guess I do have a problem -- I'm not suckered in by smooth talking politicians that would gladly eliminate everyone like me if they only had the chance.

Can't help but laugh....

 

[surplus1]

T-gates, it's useless arguing with surplus.

Actually arguing with me is not at all useless, unless of course you have no argument. If you choose to attack me and ignore the evidence that supports my allegations, that's not my problem. If you can refute the evidence, do so. If you can't, then I'll wait for comments from thinkers like FDJ and the General. While I often disagree with them, they both have something to say and are worth reading. If the inference is a shoe worth wearing, be my guest.