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Mesa TA, Help Us Help Ourselves!

johndog

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Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Posts
46
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5050
I'm looking for feedback from folks at other Regionals on;

1. Min days, line holder/reserve and monthly average.
2. Block or better and how it works at your airline.
3. Line Guarantee and how it works at your airline.
4. Average line value.
5. Work rules duty and trip and how it works at your airline.
6. PBS and how it works at your airline.

We are in the middle of our roadshow process and only a few weeks from a vote. Most of the pilots I speak to are very disappointed with what we have negotiated. For folks that now the answers to the above questions and would like to share, Thanks.
 

ePilot22

BuyTheTicket~TakeTheRide
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Dec 16, 2004
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903
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nfinit
Mesa is a sinking ship. Why not jump ship and go to Mesaba while they're still hiring. Your stock is going to be delisted in just over a month and the whole company gone by Spring/Summer '09. So what if you get a new contract? It's not going to last that long anyway.


MESA SUCKS.








eP.
 

WSurf

The Smack Down!
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Posts
3,690
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I'm looking for feedback from folks at other Regionals on;

1. Min days, line holder/reserve and monthly average.
2. Block or better and how it works at your airline.
3. Line Guarantee and how it works at your airline.
4. Average line value.
5. Work rules duty and trip and how it works at your airline.
6. PBS and how it works at your airline.

We are in the middle of our roadshow process and only a few weeks from a vote. Most of the pilots I speak to are very disappointed with what we have negotiated. For folks that now the answers to the above questions and would like to share, Thanks.

Good Luck, I think anything is better then what you guys currently have.

Block or Better and getting paid for cancelled trips is gonna be nice for you folks. Hopefully min. days off will be 12 (wish we had 12). Line guarantee is very good to have also.

I know people will continue to bash Mesa, but getting a contract that is industry Avg. will help a bunch.

Good Luck
 

pdub20s

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Feb 7, 2006
Posts
858
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..
Mesa is a sinking ship. Why not jump ship and go to Mesaba while they're still hiring. Your stock is going to be delisted in just over a month and the whole company gone by Spring/Summer '09. So what if you get a new contract? It's not going to last that long anyway.


MESA SUCKS.









eP.


Well it wouldn't be smart for him to go to Mesaba when he is already a CA on the ERJ in JFK

My Best advice is to go to the Roadshows and participate on the conference calls. Ask your questions and educate yourself on the TA. There is a lot of crap being thrown around about the TA thats is misunderstood. Ive read it and it looks like a loaded gun with a hair trigger. But educating yourself is one of the best things I've done. Ive still got more questions to ask and plan on attending more road shows
 

DoinTime

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Nov 27, 2001
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I think the best question to ask is how can anyone even possible entertain the idea of frozen payrates for the next four years (at least) when your current rates are already far below the bottom of the industry.
 

labbats

Zulu who?
Joined
May 25, 2003
Posts
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The better question is why ALPA thinks this is a good TA. Without Freedom looming in on them there's no reason why they can't get it right this time. Frankly it's sad to see how little we receive in return for 2% sometimes.

Bring the entire contract to an arbitrator and for once use the industry average to pull yourself up instead of down. I can't count the number of times I've heard Eagle can't get something because it's not "industry standard". What's to stop Mesa from getting block or better or line guarantee if everyone else has it, and not losing anything to get it?
 
Last edited:

Raoul Duke

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Bird in hand. the Mesa guys should take this deal and spend the next two years focusing on the next round of negotiations.
 

Poahi

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Bird in hand. the Mesa guys should take this deal and spend the next two years focusing on the next round of negotiations.

They will have plenty of time to 'focus' on a new deal because if accepted, this will reset the RLA clock and you're looking at 5 years or so before a new contract would be implemented.
 

DoinTime

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Bird in hand. the Mesa guys should take this deal and spend the next two years focusing on the next round of negotiations.

What have they been doing the past two years?

Accepting this will only put them another 8-10% behind the industry when it comes time to negotiate again.
 

FSIGRAD

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Nov 26, 2001
Posts
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Let me add another contract fact that I have learned at a previous airline.

113C. code of bankruptcy.

Basically they can sign something with you guys and then impose whatever contract they wish when under bankruptcy protection. Fun stuff....
 

Poahi

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Let me add another contract fact that I have learned at a previous airline.

113C. code of bankruptcy.

So many people at Mesa don't seem to embrace this basic concept. You know, after thinking about it, I think the company wants this TA because it means the union agreeing to PBS. That's the gem they are looking for. It saves quite a bit.

Once they get PBS, it would be easier to simply go through an 1113(c) maneuver and remove the line guaranty and the block or better provisions (which wouldn't amount to much under PBS anyway) and impose whatever they need to exact the damage they seek.

Essentially, the pilots are negotiating against themselves in this contract and they don't even know it. It's a brilliant move by management. We'll see who falls for it.

I mean come on - if anyone thinks during this 'concessionary environment' a company like Mesa wants to negotiate a new contract ahead of the RLA roadmap to make the pilots happy or because it makes it easier to obtain some kind of interim financing to avoid a bankruptcy - you are going to be very disappointed next year. This contract will neither make or break Mesa and likewise, it will neither prevent nor induce a bankruptcy filing. Those events are going to happen because of the decisions made by management years ago.

A contract that at least meets 'middle of the road' parity with the other regionals is the only one worth supporting and this one doesn't even seriously address pay issues.
 

sniper

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Posts
862
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I'm looking for feedback from folks at other Regionals on;

1. Min days, line holder/reserve and monthly average.
2. Block or better and how it works at your airline.
3. Line Guarantee and how it works at your airline.
4. Average line value.
5. Work rules duty and trip and how it works at your airline.
6. PBS and how it works at your airline.

We are in the middle of our roadshow process and only a few weeks from a vote. Most of the pilots I speak to are very disappointed with what we have negotiated. For folks that now the answers to the above questions and would like to share, Thanks.



you should vote no because:

11 days off per month is not a gain for a line holder
75.8 hrs min per month is not a gain
no pay increase for captains and 2% for fos is a joke
same pay rates from 2003 to 2012....why

pbs is what the company wants big savings

block or better is great however not good enough to sign another ta, been below industry pay by 12% for another 5 years.

your company needs this ta to secure investors
no bk here.....that is leverage


wake up mesa pilots, say no to drugs

your mec needs to wake up as well,,,how did you people ta this pos
 

n757st

It's always sunny in JFK
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Sep 2, 2003
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12 days off should be minimum.

Duty rig should be 2:1

Block or better should be leg to leg... no excuses on that.

Pay 75 hrs min is standard.

PBS, can't say. We don't use it at Air Wisconsin,(but management sure would like to) but it has more to do with our vacation language then anything.



I would vote no.
 
Last edited:

Raoul Duke

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They will have plenty of time to 'focus' on a new deal because if accepted, this will reset the RLA clock and you're looking at 5 years or so before a new contract would be implemented.

Except their RLA clock has not started because they are in an expidited "non-seciton 6" discussions. They have never had a section six discussion yet. That means 3 yrs min which is longer than the 24 month contract.
 

DoinTime

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Except their RLA clock has not started because they are in an expidited "non-seciton 6" discussions. They have never had a section six discussion yet. That means 3 yrs min which is longer than the 24 month contract.


This is a completely incorrect statement. Mesa is in "direct" negotiations right now. That is a part of the RLA timeline.
 

Raoul Duke

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There is a signed agreement between ALPA and Mesa that says otherwise. Do your homework before you give your armchair legal advice
 

squall line

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62
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i don't think it will pass this time around. if they were to give lineholders min 12 days off, it would have a much better chance.

i saw the TA and it is very poorly written -- just like the last contract. the intent of the union for the most part is good, but the company will turn it around and use the lack of language in their favor
sl
 

sniper

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Feb 16, 2006
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i don't think it will pass this time around. if they were to give lineholders min 12 days off, it would have a much better chance.

i saw the TA and it is very poorly written -- just like the last contract. the intent of the union for the most part is good, but the company will turn it around and use the lack of language in their favor
sl



vote no
 

Poahi

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If I were to guess, I would say it's going to pass. The prevailing view is that nothing better will happen anytime soon if it doesn't pass and our MEC is selling it as some of the best language in the industry.
 

CX880

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Apr 19, 2006
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If I were to guess, I would say it's going to pass. The prevailing view is that nothing better will happen anytime soon if it doesn't pass and our MEC is selling it as some of the best language in the industry.

Are you saying someone is going to invest in Mesa? Otherwise you know BK is inevitable pass or fail of the TA.
 
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