Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Mesa slides off the taxiway in DSM

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
Look, I hate Mesa as much as the next guy, but is this meant to infer that they're lesser pilots? Anyone can slide off a runway in a blizzard. Who are we to judge? There by the grace of God go I.
 
Damn that sucks... it could happen to any of us though. Keep it safe out there!
 
John Pennekamp said:
Look, I hate Mesa as much as the next guy, but is this meant to infer that they're lesser pilots? Anyone can slide off a runway in a blizzard. Who are we to judge? There by the grace of God go I.
Click to expand...

I know! 250 hour pilots are equal to experienced 3000 hour pilots. Thanks for clearing that up!
 
Please don't let this become another "Mesa slides" thread....
 
Earlier in the morning, Northwest Flight 5603 to Minneapolis, a regional jet, slid on its taxiway about 7 a.m. with 40 passengers and three crew aboard.

The jet's nose gear was just barely off the taxiway, airport authorities said.
Click to expand...


Thought this was of note as well. 5603 is a 9E flight number.
 
From the article:

--Johnson said ice on the windows of the aircraft prevented the passengers from seeing outside, but as it slid off the runway, lights remained on and there was no panic among the people on board.


If they were heading toward the runway, as in about to go fly, shouldn't they have deiced? I am going to assume that if there is ice on the windows, there definately would be ice on the airfoils. Is Mesa trying to save money by not deicing now?

Mesa sucks and slides.
 
CFI2766 said:
From the article:

--Johnson said ice on the windows of the aircraft prevented the passengers from seeing outside, but as it slid off the runway, lights remained on and there was no panic among the people on board.


If they were heading toward the runway, as in about to go fly, shouldn't they have deiced? I am going to assume that if there is ice on the windows, there definately would be ice on the airfoils. Is Mesa trying to save money by not deicing now?

Mesa sucks and slides.
Click to expand...

Are the pasenger windows a critical item for deicing? Are you telling me that if there was a very thin layer of snow on your aircraft that you would hose the entire aircraft down instead of just doing the critical surfaces? Do you do much deicing? Having worked at Mesa for 7 years I can tell you with absolute certainly that NOBODY has ever told a PIC not to de-ice an aircraft. They use the same standards as any other airline. While there, I was never even told how much it costs to de-ice. There is a very good reason for this. Mesa like other commuter's pass this cost on to the airline that they contract for. If you work for a commuter you should already know this. If I was the Captain and there was a thin layer of wind blown snow/ice on the passenger windows I would not de-ice the non critical surfaces not because it saves money but because it is very wasteful. That stuff cannot be good for the ground water and is petroleum based which comes with its own complications. Mesa may suck and suck bad but when it comes to safety I give them an A. There are PLENTY of things to pick at Mesa about. Sliding off a taxiway is not one of them. Just glad nobody was hurt.
 
Last edited:
ttuite said:
Are the pasenger windows a critical item for deicing?
Click to expand...

FWIW, At some airlines, such as NWA, de-icing is mandatory if ice/snow on the fuselage extends below the top line of the passenger windows.

NWA isn't perfect either, we've had our share of slips and slides in recent years. Lets just all be careful in the upper midwest this weekend!
 
kngarthur said:
I know! 250 hour pilots are equal to experienced 3000 hour pilots. Thanks for clearing that up!
Click to expand...

"The jet's nose gear was just barely off the taxiway, airport authorities said"


Unless your 3000 hours of experience were on icy runways, I'd rethink that line of reasoning, sport.

My heart-stopping, nearly-slid-off-a taxi-way while exiting occurred around hour 6000 in the CRJ.


This kind of stuff can happen to anyone when the "fair" braking action is updated to "NIL" . . . based on YOUR Pirep!
 
Last edited:
kngarthur said:
I know! 250 hour pilots are equal to experienced 3000 hour pilots. Thanks for clearing that up!
Click to expand...

You must be one of said 250 hour guys if you think 3000 hours is "experienced.."
 
Put two in the weeds within 24 hours and your POI gets a phone call from DC.

Which means the D.O. gets a call from the POI.

Anybody wanna guess what the Special Emphasis Items will be soon?

For extra credit, guess which 45-minute module in ART just went to 2-hours.
 
For the record when it comes to deicing....do yourself a favor. De-ice the WHOLE aircraft and anti-ice the WHOLE thing if necessary. Anyone who flies a CRJ had better think twice before taking off with ice on the fuselage. If it comes off and hits those engines, it won't be pretty.

A350
 
A350 said:
For the record when it comes to deicing....do yourself a favor. De-ice the WHOLE aircraft and anti-ice the WHOLE thing if necessary. Anyone who flies a CRJ had better think twice before taking off with ice on the fuselage. If it comes off and hits those engines, it won't be pretty.

A350
Click to expand...

At our airline, "spot" deicing is prohibited, as at most other airlines.
 
CFI2766 said:
From the article:

--Johnson said ice on the windows of the aircraft prevented the passengers from seeing outside, but as it slid off the runway, lights remained on and there was no panic among the people on board.


If they were heading toward the runway, as in about to go fly, shouldn't they have deiced? I am going to assume that if there is ice on the windows, there definately would be ice on the airfoils. Is Mesa trying to save money by not deicing now?

Mesa sucks and slides.
Click to expand...

We don't know what happened - I agree that a 500 hr. FO and a 1500 hour CA probably isn't the best thing - but until we know more lets not jump the gun too much.

Also, we are all jumping due to the fact that a PASSENGER witness said there is ice. What do they know? For all we know is they de-iced and the FLUID (Tim Johnson, a passenger - “It was kind of like being in a tube of toothpaste,”) was covering the windows and this MOPE gets out and wants his 15 mins. on CNN.

I am not one to defend Mesa, but hold the judgements until knowledge. If they didn't de-ice or did something else wrong, it will come out.

Until then, fly safe.
 
Last edited:
Anybody else find it interesting that the 3 planes that slid off the runways today were all regionals?? Experience counts. Of the 2 planes that slid off in DSM, which one occured first, PNCL or MESA?
 
ttuite said:
Are the pasenger windows a critical item for deicing? Are you telling me that if there was a very thin layer of snow on your aircraft that you would hose the entire aircraft down instead of just doing the critical surfaces? Do you do much deicing? Having worked at Mesa for 7 years I can tell you with absolute certainly that NOBODY has ever told a PIC not to de-ice an aircraft. They use the same standards as any other airline. While there, I was never even told how much it costs to de-ice. There is a very good reason for this. Mesa like other commuter's pass this cost on to the airline that they contract for. If you work for a commuter you should already know this. If I was the Captain and there was a thin layer of wind blown snow/ice on the passenger windows I would not de-ice the non critical surfaces not because it saves money but because it is very wasteful. That stuff cannot be good for the ground water and is petroleum based which comes with its own complications. Mesa may suck and suck bad but when it comes to safety I give them an A. There are PLENTY of things to pick at Mesa about. Sliding off a taxiway is not one of them. Just glad nobody was hurt.
Click to expand...

Does MESA use the "Clean Aircraft Concept?" This is the approved and/or accepted method at most even somewhat safety aware air carriers!
 
IDEtoNJA said:
Does MESA use the "Clean Aircraft Concept?" This is the approved and/or accepted method at most even somewhat safety aware air carriers!
Click to expand...

Yes and adhered to everyone that I know at mesa, although I will be joining you at a far superior comapny come dec. 10th.
 
Anyone see this post by DeltaLima
"As a pilot, I feel compelled to let the general public in on the situation that the airlines are in. All of these accidents(3) occuring today were on regional airlines, you know the ones that fly the small miniture jets to medium sized cities....You should know that the desperation for pilots has got so great that they are hiring pilots with only 250 hours of flight time to fly your loved ones. Salaries for first year pilots are around 18-22K, and the job is not attractive to incoming pilots. I think it is more than coincidence that these accidents today were all regional airlines and not mainline flights. I personally wouldnt trust my family on one of these flights in this type of weather condition."
12/2/2007 12:36 AM CST on Des Moines Register

What exactly are you trying to accomplish buy posting this crap on a news paper blog. Because of what you posted perhaps families will stop traveling by air causing less of a need for service, and less of a need for your job and mine. As a pilot I ask you to fly safe and please use your head, our industry is wounded enough and statements like that isn't going to help public perception.
 
Perhaps it was deiceing fluid that covered the passengers windows and obstructed there vision. I've flown with many LAMA pilots and I will say I was nothing less than impressed with there knowledge and professionalism in the classroom and in the air. Don't damn a person or group because of there Management.
 
ttuite said:
\ They use the same standards as any other airline.
Click to expand...

Obviously not.

As IDE-NJA said most other airlines use the "CLEAN AIRCRAFT CONCEPT". I've been told that some of the ERJ carriers don't do windscreens fwd. Now if this is a recomandation by the manufaturer then that's fine but I also flew CRJ's for 5 years and know for a fact that there is no restrictions there.
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom