Mesa slides off the taxiway in DSM

[dirkdigler]

For the record when it comes to deicing....do yourself a favor. De-ice the WHOLE aircraft and anti-ice the WHOLE thing if necessary. Anyone who flies a CRJ had better think twice before taking off with ice on the fuselage. If it comes off and hits those engines, it won't be pretty.

A350

At our airline, "spot" deicing is prohibited, as at most other airlines.

 

[dirkdigler]

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071201/NEWS/71201007

AGAIN????

 

[Gandalf]

From the article:

--Johnson said ice on the windows of the aircraft prevented the passengers from seeing outside, but as it slid off the runway, lights remained on and there was no panic among the people on board.


If they were heading toward the runway, as in about to go fly, shouldn't they have deiced? I am going to assume that if there is ice on the windows, there definately would be ice on the airfoils. Is Mesa trying to save money by not deicing now?

Mesa sucks and slides.

We don't know what happened - I agree that a 500 hr. FO and a 1500 hour CA probably isn't the best thing - but until we know more lets not jump the gun too much.

Also, we are all jumping due to the fact that a PASSENGER witness said there is ice. What do they know? For all we know is they de-iced and the FLUID (Tim Johnson, a passenger - “It was kind of like being in a tube of toothpaste,”) was covering the windows and this MOPE gets out and wants his 15 mins. on CNN.

I am not one to defend Mesa, but hold the judgements until knowledge. If they didn't de-ice or did something else wrong, it will come out.

Until then, fly safe.

 

[DeltaLima21]

Anybody else find it interesting that the 3 planes that slid off the runways today were all regionals?? Experience counts. Of the 2 planes that slid off in DSM, which one occured first, PNCL or MESA?

 

[IDEtoNJA]

Are the pasenger windows a critical item for deicing? Are you telling me that if there was a very thin layer of snow on your aircraft that you would hose the entire aircraft down instead of just doing the critical surfaces? Do you do much deicing? Having worked at Mesa for 7 years I can tell you with absolute certainly that NOBODY has ever told a PIC not to de-ice an aircraft. They use the same standards as any other airline. While there, I was never even told how much it costs to de-ice. There is a very good reason for this. Mesa like other commuter's pass this cost on to the airline that they contract for. If you work for a commuter you should already know this. If I was the Captain and there was a thin layer of wind blown snow/ice on the passenger windows I would not de-ice the non critical surfaces not because it saves money but because it is very wasteful. That stuff cannot be good for the ground water and is petroleum based which comes with its own complications. Mesa may suck and suck bad but when it comes to safety I give them an A. There are PLENTY of things to pick at Mesa about. Sliding off a taxiway is not one of them. Just glad nobody was hurt.

Does MESA use the "Clean Aircraft Concept?" This is the approved and/or accepted method at most even somewhat safety aware air carriers!

 

[pilot772]

Does MESA use the "Clean Aircraft Concept?" This is the approved and/or accepted method at most even somewhat safety aware air carriers!

Yes and adhered to everyone that I know at mesa, although I will be joining you at a far superior comapny come dec. 10th.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Here's some pics from MSN of the other CRJ:

http://www.channel3000.com/slideshow/14747801/detail.htmlindex.html?currentSlide=9&taf=c3k

 

[RobCat]

Anyone see this post by DeltaLima
"As a pilot, I feel compelled to let the general public in on the situation that the airlines are in. All of these accidents(3) occuring today were on regional airlines, you know the ones that fly the small miniture jets to medium sized cities....You should know that the desperation for pilots has got so great that they are hiring pilots with only 250 hours of flight time to fly your loved ones. Salaries for first year pilots are around 18-22K, and the job is not attractive to incoming pilots. I think it is more than coincidence that these accidents today were all regional airlines and not mainline flights. I personally wouldnt trust my family on one of these flights in this type of weather condition."
12/2/2007 12:36 AM CST on Des Moines Register

What exactly are you trying to accomplish buy posting this crap on a news paper blog. Because of what you posted perhaps families will stop traveling by air causing less of a need for service, and less of a need for your job and mine. As a pilot I ask you to fly safe and please use your head, our industry is wounded enough and statements like that isn't going to help public perception.

 

[RobCat]

Perhaps it was deiceing fluid that covered the passengers windows and obstructed there vision. I've flown with many LAMA pilots and I will say I was nothing less than impressed with there knowledge and professionalism in the classroom and in the air. Don't damn a person or group because of there Management.

 

[JJET44]

\ They use the same standards as any other airline.

Obviously not.

As IDE-NJA said most other airlines use the "CLEAN AIRCRAFT CONCEPT". I've been told that some of the ERJ carriers don't do windscreens fwd. Now if this is a recomandation by the manufaturer then that's fine but I also flew CRJ's for 5 years and know for a fact that there is no restrictions there.

 

[vectorvictor]

Look at the pics...no harm...no foul...they deiced, get a wrecker to get this thing back on the taxiway, spread some sand over the icy spot and move on people.

It was snowing like the north pole in a CBS Chirstmas special. This could have happened to anyone of us.

VV

 

[Flash]

Anybody else find it interesting that the 3 planes that slid off the runways today were all regionals?? Experience counts. Of the 2 planes that slid off in DSM, which one occured first, PNCL or MESA?

I'd look at the other side of this as 2 podunk type airports that might not have a fleet of plows/sanders that a larger airport might have. And seeing that mainline type really don't go into these airports then who's left to go off the taxiway?

 

[FORESTGUMP]

Are the pasenger windows a critical item for deicing? Are you telling me that if there was a very thin layer of snow on your aircraft that you would hose the entire aircraft down instead of just doing the critical surfaces? Do you do much deicing? Having worked at Mesa for 7 years I can tell you with absolute certainly that NOBODY has ever told a PIC not to de-ice an aircraft. They use the same standards as any other airline. While there, I was never even told how much it costs to de-ice. There is a very good reason for this. Mesa like other commuter's pass this cost on to the airline that they contract for. If you work for a commuter you should already know this. If I was the Captain and there was a thin layer of wind blown snow/ice on the passenger windows I would not de-ice the non critical surfaces not because it saves money but because it is very wasteful. That stuff cannot be good for the ground water and is petroleum based which comes with its own complications. Mesa may suck and suck bad but when it comes to safety I give them an A. There are PLENTY of things to pick at Mesa about. Sliding off a taxiway is not one of them. Just glad nobody was hurt.

Its standard practice at ASA. According to our POH, the top of the fuselage is a critical surface...

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

For what it's worth, an NWA whale ran off as well.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

For what it's worth, an NWA whale ran off as well.

Hey now, easy on the flight attendant jokes there!

 

[Checknsix]

A buddy of mine, a previous, well thought of captain at Air Whiskey, put one of the end of a runway on ice in KC a couple of years ago.

He said was slowed down to a crawl, when trying to make the last turnoff. Idle thrust on both engines was enough to sent him on a dirt trip. In end, the FAA went after the airport manager for not keeping the runway/taxiway clean. 3 airplanes went off in the same spot in the course of a few days.

My buddy said, in retrospect, he would have put the engines in reverse , given a second chance....even though it is not in the book.

Be careful out there.
- Six

 

[UnstableAviator]

My buddy said, in retrospect, he would have put the engines in reverse , given a second chance....even though it is not in the book.


- Six

He's undoubtedly better off since he didn't. Otherwise, he would have taken all the blame instead of the facility manager.

 

[Cloudroller]

I know! 250 hour pilots are equal to experienced 3000 hour pilots. Thanks for clearing that up!

Maybe you should talk to the Express Jet guys who rolled one off the end of a runway. Or look up the history of their FTD

 

[fried chickens]

I was in DSM yesterday after they reopen the airport. I was told Mesa went off the taxi way because the winds were so strong and a gust of wind hit them and because of the icy taxi way they just weather vaned and slid off. A NWA mainline taxing right behind them almost did the same thing but either because they're more experience or because they were right behind mesa when they were able to power themselves out of the slide. Just what I heard in DSM last night.

 

[Bruno82]

I was there. We were being deiced at the time. We heard the airport was closed on ground freq.