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Mesa shuts down another one

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OB-CPO

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Posts
148
FlyHawaii puts plans on hold

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]FlyHawaii Airlines, the local start up, is temporarily shelving its plans to launch an interisland airline. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif] The airline shut its office at Honolulu's Topa Tower on Nov. 15 and released almost all of its employees. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]A core team of three, including founder and CEO James Delano, are winding down remaining operations. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Delano, the founder of Lion Coffee and whose brainchild it was to start a customer-friendly interisland carrier, declined to comment on what happened. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]FlyHawaii expected to start flying next year but lost its major financial backing last month. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]AOL founder Steve Case and a hui of local investors pulled out after regional carrier Mesa Airlines announced its plans to enter the Hawaii market. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]FlyHawaii's market analysis didn't hold true at that point and it created a lot of uncertainty into the market. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times,Serif]Former employees say FlyHawaii will wait to see what happens with Aloha and Mesa before deciding whether to continue or permanently drop its plans. [/FONT]
 
LOL So this is MESA'S fault!?

You're blaming them for shutting down a company that never flew?

Priceless.
 
Plus, if you read the entire article, you'll see that they're gonna "wait and see" what happens.

Don't kid yourself. FlyHawaii was angling to go for the jugular because Alhoa is weak (for now) . . . Mesa just (maybe) beat them to the punch. But remember, NOTHING (!!) HAS HAPPENED YET.
 
synchoff said:
Plus, if you read the entire article, you'll see that they're gonna "wait and see" what happens.

Don't kid yourself. FlyHawaii was angling to go for the jugular because Alhoa is weak (for now) . . . Mesa just (maybe) beat them to the punch. But remember, NOTHING (!!) HAS HAPPENED YET.

I have met James Delano and he is a nice guy. A few of us AQ pilots ran into him at Gordon Beirsch after informational picketing one day and he came over to our table to talk to us. Delano is not a predatory businessman like your CEO.

In the end we may need to thank Mesa for chasing off the riff raff. Only the real players are on the field now.

23 years of Mesa history and they are still wannabes. 98% ACMI (fee per departure) all the press releases in the world and mis-guided reporters can't change the fact that Mesa independant from their larger code-share partners would be a complete and total failure of dramatic proportions.

1). The New Mexico - Texas system would fail today were it not for federal EAS subsides.
2). The old independant Dallas RJ system failed in 1996-7 and helped cost Risley his job.

JO has NEVER EVER taken on an incumbent airline, let alone two at one time.
 
islandhopper said:
Delano is not a predatory businessman like your CEO.

23 years of Mesa history and they are still wannabes.

. . . that Mesa independant from their larger code-share partners would be a complete and total failure of dramatic proportions.

1). The New Mexico - Texas system would fail today were it not for federal EAS subsides.

Predatory? I don't even know what that means. All airlines are constantly trying to "steal" market share from everyone else. That's business.

Wannabes? Yes and no. 28 profitable quarters, a billion in revenues, on track for $50 million profit for the year. . . its a successful BUSINESS . . . but not really an AIRLINE.

Yup. This is a new experience for Mesa. It might fail. Then again, it might not. I give it 50/50.

EAS as a prop up - - true dat! But JO has said for years he'd like to dump all 1900's . . . this EAS is a stopgap until that blessed day. 1900 EAS flying built the company up from a couple of Baron's in the 1980's . . . but their time has gone.

I give you this . . . we agree JO is a TERRIBLE personnel manager. However, he has the Midas touch when it comes to running an airline. Personnally, I think he realizes that Mesa needs an indepentent source of revenue in the next 5-10 years, hence this start up to get Mesa's feet wet, so to speak.
 
synchoff said:
Predatory? I don't even know what that means. All airlines are constantly trying to "steal" market share from everyone else. That's business.

Look up "predatory" in the FAR/AIM and theres a picture of a mesa jet. When mesa airplanes show up in your domicile things are going to start going to hell.

I dont think Delano was cut out for it. He really is a nice guy, he was offering an alternative to Aloha and Hawaiian, not trying to steal our assets in a Ch7 or 363 sale.

synchoff said:
Wannabes? Yes and no. 28 profitable quarters, a billion in revenues, on track for $50 million profit for the year. . . its a successful BUSINESS . . . but not really an AIRLINE.

Mesa is a vendor. Numbers dont lie.

synchoff said:
Yup. This is a new experience for Mesa. It might fail. Then again, it might not. I give it 50/50.

EAS as a prop up - - true dat! But JO has said for years he'd like to dump all 1900's . . . this EAS is a stopgap until that blessed day. 1900 EAS flying built the company up from a couple of Baron's in the 1980's . . . but their time has gone.

I give you this . . . we agree JO is a TERRIBLE personnel manager. However, he has the Midas touch when it comes to running an airline. Personnally, I think he realizes that Mesa needs an indepentent source of revenue in the next 5-10 years, hence this start up to get Mesa's feet wet, so to speak.

"Midas touch"? I'd say more like "Atilla the Hun's blade". He only has much treasure from robbing and pillaging other airlines. Thats why we were/are so convinced JO is after Aloha, no other reason to come to Hawaii.

The Hawaiian people are used to war. It wasn't long ago that fallen enemy chiefs were eaten and their bones kept by the victorious chief. Mesa is pissing off a lot of people in Hawaii right now and I am not just talking about pilots. We're waiting.
 
islandhopper said:
The Hawaiian people are used to war. It wasn't long ago that fallen enemy chiefs were eaten and their bones kept by the victorious chief. Mesa is pissing off a lot of people in Hawaii right now and I am not just talking about pilots. We're waiting.

Who cares if they piss off people. Hawaiians can't be any more militant than the folks from Philly. It was supposed to be a bloodbath for Southwest. It now looks like a successful business move. Maybe Mesa can give out free chicken wings onboard and call them "fallen enemy chief bones." Could be a great marketing ploy.
 
I can almost guarentee you Hawaiian's are more militant than people from Philly. Anyone who has spent any ammount of time in Hawaii will tell you how different it is than the rest of America.
miles otoole said:
Who cares if they piss off people. Hawaiians can't be any more militant than the folks from Philly. It was supposed to be a bloodbath for Southwest. It now looks like a successful business move. Maybe Mesa can give out free chicken wings onboard and call them "fallen enemy chief bones." Could be a great marketing ploy.

 
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islandhopper said:
1). The New Mexico - Texas system would fail today were it not for federal EAS subsides.

Uhhh....that's why Mesa is there...they get subsidized because there's no way to make money when a total of 5 people per day want to get in or out of Hobbs, NM. That's like saying Great Lakes would fail if it weren't for EAS or Southwest would fail if it weren't for them charging people for their tickets. Gimme a break...your "fact-based" analysis sounds like something from Miles O'Brien.


On another note, I don't think Mesa wants to be independent. They saw what happened to Indy. JO doesn't like risk. I still think this will all be a codeshare for someone with their usual fee-for-departure. Whether it's for the new US Airways or someone else, I have no idea. My money would actually be on Mesa getting in bed with a vacation charter company (like Omni) and doing inter-island feed for them.
 
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miles otoole said:
Who cares if they piss off people. Maybe Mesa can give out free chicken wings onboard and call them "fallen enemy chief bones." Could be a great marketing ploy.

Were counting on it!
 
kevin_p said:
My money would actually be on Mesa getting in bed with a vacation charter company (like Omni) and doing inter-island feed for them.

i'll take your money!
 
synchoff said:
Predatory? I don't even know what that means.
www.dictionary.com
pred·a·to·ry
Pronunciation Key (prd-tôr, -tr)
adj.
Living by preying on other organisms: a predatory mammal; a predatory insect.

Of, relating to, or characterized by plundering, pillaging, or marauding.

Living by or given to exploiting or destroying others for one's own gain.

[Latin praedtrius, plundering, from praedr, to plunder, from praeda, booty.
 
I.P. Freley said:
LOL So this is MESA'S fault!?

You're blaming them for shutting down a company that never flew?

Priceless.

FlyHi blames mesa in the article. I would say the answer to your question is yes, it is mesa's fault. FlyHi's employees are all on the street this weekend because of mesa. I hope none of the fine folks at Aloha and Hawaiian aren't next.
 
Charter companies do exactly that. They are chartered by tour companies to provide the aircraft and the crew to fly the people who booked a package from them. The people who fly on Omni are going wherever Omni takes them, then they stay in a hotel which is part of the package. Why would Omni, or Ryan Int'l, or any other charter outfit feed an interisland carrier?
kevin_p said:
Uhhh....that's why Mesa is there...they get subsidized because there's no way to make money when a total of 5 people per day want to get in or out of Hobbs, NM. That's like saying Great Lakes would fail if it weren't for EAS or Southwest would fail if it weren't for them charging people for their tickets. Gimme a break...your "fact-based" analysis sounds like something from Miles O'Brien.


On another note, I don't think Mesa wants to be independent. They saw what happened to Indy. JO doesn't like risk. I still think this will all be a codeshare for someone with their usual fee-for-departure. Whether it's for the new US Airways or someone else, I have no idea. My money would actually be on Mesa getting in bed with a vacation charter company (like Omni) and doing inter-island feed for them.

 
islandhopper said:
2). The old independant Dallas RJ system failed in 1996-7 and helped cost Risley his job.

As much as I dislike Mesa and the late Larry Risley I must disagree. Risley started the RJ thing in Texas for the purpose of having the RJ's on the certificate and training up and running in order to get the USAir RJ code share. Up till then very few commuters were able to field RJ's quickly or effectively. Risley won the code share only because he could field 10 painted crj's in less than 2 weeks. Later when Risley got into a pis*ing match with United over increased costs at the new Denver airport he was kicked out. JO shut down the Texas operation to spite the old man.

RF
 
miles otoole said:
Maybe Mesa can give out free chicken wings onboard and call them "fallen enemy chief bones." Could be a great marketing ploy.

are you kidding me? We dont even give out peanuts on our flights! You're fired!
 
OB-CPO said:
FlyHi blames mesa in the article. I would say the answer to your question is yes, it is mesa's fault. FlyHi's employees are all on the street this weekend because of mesa. I hope none of the fine folks at Aloha and Hawaiian aren't next.

Im sure all three of them had a nice severance paycheck and were sent off in style with a full bag peanuts! At least they didnt start it up and have it die off just as fast....than your talkin 50 people or more. If everyone hates JO as much as they say they do.....why does everyone follow his every move? I work for the MoFo and dont hear this $hit until I see it on here first. If you hate him, dont worry about what he does....unless your think its going to affect YOUR job. It does suck A$$ here sometimes but i feel that I have pretty good job security. Good luck to all that are going through tough times right now. Hang in there!!
 
Spinplate said:
Im sure all three of them had a nice severance paycheck and were sent off in style with a full bag peanuts! At least they didnt start it up and have it die off just as fast....than your talkin 50 people or more. If everyone hates JO as much as they say they do.....why does everyone follow his every move? I work for the MoFo and dont hear this $hit until I see it on here first. If you hate him, dont worry about what he does....unless your think its going to affect YOUR job. It does suck A$$ here sometimes but i feel that I have pretty good job security. Good luck to all that are going through tough times right now. Hang in there!!

Speaking of Mesa. I checked out our new crew room in ORD the other day. We share it with Air Whisky, Trans States, and Mesa apparently. I decided to pick up a Mesa pilot award schedule packet. What I saw blew my mind:

1) Average days off were 12 per month on every aircraft.
2) Many of the line holders only had 10-11 days off.
3) They have lines where your block for the month is higher than your pay credit. Guys blocking 83 hours and getting payed for 81. How does that work?
4) 4 day trips where you come back and sit 6 hours of reserve on your last day.
5) Several 3 day trips worth 6 hours total credit
6) No block or better

I know CHQ doesn't have the best contract but from what I see ours blows Mesa's away. Many more days off and more efficient trips and pay credit. It just still amazes me that people go work at Mesa when others are hiring. As JO has said he knows he's paying the Mesa pilots too much as long as he can keep filling classes.
 
OB-CPO said:
FlyHi blames mesa in the article. I would say the answer to your question is yes, it is mesa's fault. FlyHi's employees are all on the street this weekend because of mesa. I hope none of the fine folks at Aloha and Hawaiian aren't next.

PLEASE... What's that, the "I read it in the newspaper so it must be true" argument? Or is it the "Well managment said it, so it must be true" argument?

Not that I'm defending Mesa, but really... let's try to not believe EVERYTHING that we read. It's called a critical mind. Try it sometime.

Besides, if FlyHi can't take some competition, they are in the WRONG business anyway. Start ups are easy, it's the long term running of an airline that is difficult... Which I might add is something Mesa has done successfully ... No wait, they aren't really an airline, just a vendor, nevermind....
 

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