Mesa Pilots: Please tell me what I am missing something

[yasir1212]

...In addition, I admire what I learned about Mesa's leader Jonathan Ornstein. This guy went from being an a/c cleaner to turning around Expressjet, then taking on Mesa and turning Mesa into one of the most competitive regional in the industry....

You've got to be kidding!! Here's a little background info FYI....

Jonathan Ornstein started in the financial industry. He was a trader at the stock market and got charged with inside trading and instead of being prosecuted, he bailed to Europe and worked with Branson starting Virgin Express and was CEO until he could return to the states and was no longer able to be prosecuted. He then claims he threw bags for Mesa in Farmington, NM. He became buddies with Larry Risley former CEO. He worked for Continental Express and pissed of many employees over there. He took many of his cronies from Express to Mesa when Mesa was in a terrible financial situation. He them climbed the ladder learning many of Larry's tricks to break and get around unions. The rest is history and he has been CEO for about 7 or 8 yrs now. Quite a guy...

 

[CitationLover]

fyi:

mesa does not get paid BLOCK time. they get paid the mysterious CREDIT time, which conveniently is usually at minute or two LESS than block time. ask anyone at the company what CREDIT time is and you get the "it is what the computer says it is" response.

 

[FCPhotography]

"Half pay for deadheads??? Who do you work for?"

Pinnacle. ACA, Indy (5 years) and then went for the street captain upgrade. I am a sucker. Will be mowing lawns this summer and hopefully taking a lot more photos.

Our contract is one of the worst and our company wants more concessions. Their last proposal, 3 weeks ago, wanted to eliminate hotels on our highspeeds just like Mesa, along with a 5% pay cut for CA's. Luckily our MEC laughed at them. I, along with everyone I spoke with, would rather lose our jobs than sleep in an RJ for $50,000 a year.

Since I had to start over I decided to make one more attempt without commuting. We will see.

 

[Beantown]

Just so the facts are stright. Mesa pilots get hotels on standup overnights, just like everyone else. Mesa pilots don't get hotels when the break is less then 4 hrs. (our normal standups tend to be 5-6 hrs) This only happens in the LAS system when we are doing all night flying. The "camping" in the airplanes happens usually on 3 hr or less breaks. These breaks are no different then the 3 hr breaks that happen to everyone at every airline during the day, except that they are late at night. Not defending the practice and have never had do it as I fly on the east coast, just trying to get things stright. -Bean

 

[Mr Biggelsworth]

B777 you make me sick ........ go to Thailand. I don't want you here anymore.... YOU BOTHER ME and people like you are furthering the industry into the sh*ter

 

[Socalplt]

B777

Work rules are very important in this industry. Although the hourly rates may be similiar, overall compensation between companies can very greatly. Trip and duty rigs, premium pay, block or better, minimum daily guarantee, pay for cancelled flights, and deadhead pay. etc all can make a significant difference in you pay check. Last year I received a total of 1125 hours of pay, of which 924 hours of it was for the 789 hours that I blocked. I received 135 hours of pay stricly based upon the work rules we currently have. The additional 201 hours of pay include some reserve time, training, sick/vacation time, and holiday pay. If I worked for Mesa I'm sure I wouldn't have received that 135 hours of pay.

Eight days off a month is terrible. One day you may decide to have a life outside of flying, at that point you'll be hating life. Remeber this is a JOB, not a way of life, hobby or some grand adventure. You should strive to maximize income and time off, not the other way around.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

In addition, I admire what I learned about Mesa's leader Jonathan Ornstein. This guy went from being an a/c cleaner to turning around Expressjet, then taking on Mesa and turning Mesa into one of the most competitive regional in the industry.

Turning around ExpressJet? For starters, there was no "ExpressJet" during that time period. JO was CEO of Continental Express back when it was owned by Continental. If my memory serves me correctly COEX was one of the worst regional airlines to work for as far as pay and QOL during that time. The only thing JO has ever "turned around" has been his employees while he was giving it to them up the arse.

In the article, they indciated that upgrade is usually with in 2 years. You fly a lot, minimum days off is 10 days. That's great. I am single and I want to fly as much as possible to accumulate hours. Matter of fact, I would love to time out by Dec 1! That's one month off with pay! So yeah, crew scheduling can call me anytime they want, I would love to fly. Or is it not so? What am I missing out of this picture?

The "I can't wait until my next trip so that I can fly again" syndrome will wear off within 6 months, then you will wish you had more than a measley 10 days a month off to enjoy your life. Crew scheduling will see to it that you don't time out by Dec 1st.

Now about pay. First year FO on the prop is $1555 a month or $1754 on a jet. Not bad. 1st year FO pay for Expressjet is $1808. Now here's the difference though. If I upgrade in 2 years, that means my pay in the begining of the 3rd year (at 25 month of service) would be from the low of $2711 a month if I was a captain on the BE1900 or $5268 a month on the CRJ-900. If I was at Expressjet, I would be an FO during my 25th month of service and I would be paid $2857 a month. So there is a chance I could be making more at Mesa and I would be accumulating PIC time.

You aren't going to upgrade in 2 years...and at the rate things are going, even if you did you are going to be stuck in that 1900 for a long time before anything other than another regional airline will look at you. I would rather be stuck in the right seat at a good reputable company than in the left seat at a crappy operation like Mesa.

At Mesa, I have more choices of airplanes I can fly and bases I could bid into! Actually, the airplane I really want to fly is the CRJ-700. Something I can not do if I was to work for Expressjet and few other regionals for that matter.

Who gives a flying f*** about aircraft type? The pay isn't any better, so what difference does it make? Saying you would rather work at a pathetic outfit like Mesa just to fly a stretched CRJ is absurd. If you're going to be a professional pilot, get rid of the silly airliners.net "I want to fly a CRJ 900 because it looks like an MD80" mentality and start thinking logically.

In addition, depending of which base you choose, you can have flight benefits on one of the following airlines: UA, US, DL, and HP. I would prefer US as they allow companinons (or whaterver they are called depending on what airline, girlfrined, significant other, etc.) to travel free of charge. According to the acrticle, as a Mesa pilot you get the same benefits as the airline which you are flying for. True to some point. I can tell you with DL, you get the same benefit, but at a lower pirority (except OH and ASA but not for too long for ASA). Never the less, my companion travles for free and that's what matters to me.

If you're willing to bend over and take it up the arse every day at work over travel benefits...go right ahead bud. Good luck traveling anywhere during that wopping 10 days off a month that you're going to get...assuming you don't get junior manned while boarding that vacation flight to Paris.

before I read the article, my top choices were Comair, Expressjet, AWAC, and Skywest. But now I am considering as Mesa to be my top choice. I will be represented by ALPA, the pay is OK I have seen worse, I will upgrade in 2 years, stay another year with MESA as a captain to rack up PIC time, and then move on to a bigger and better job. So to me it sounds like Mesa is a good place to go as long as you know what to expect.

From the sound of it, you have no idea what to expect. I've always believed that if it looks like sh!t and smells like sh!t, then it must be sh!t. If everyone in this business says that Mesa is a terrible place to work, then you can bet that it is just that. Take my advice and put that Air Inc magazine in your bathroom as spare toilet paper. That is the only thing it is useful for.

 

[DashCojones]

Take my advice and put that Air Inc magazine in your bathroom as spare toilet paper. That is the only thing it is useful for.

I disagree. You can also line a birdcage with it.

 

[nimtz]

Just so the facts are stright. Mesa pilots get hotels on standup overnights, just like everyone else. Mesa pilots don't get hotels when the break is less then 4 hrs. (our normal standups tend to be 5-6 hrs) This only happens in the LAS system when we are doing all night flying. The "camping" in the airplanes happens usually on 3 hr or less breaks. These breaks are no different then the 3 hr breaks that happen to everyone at every airline during the day, except that they are late at night. Not defending the practice and have never had do it as I fly on the east coast, just trying to get things stright. -Bean

Granted this was a bad scenario, BUT I have to admit I have never been happier to be where I am then I was one December night in TUS. We were staying at the same Airport Hotel as Mesa. So it was about 9 pm when the FA and I were waiting for cabs to take us to the bars at U of A. As we were waiting I saw a Mesa crew getting on the van. I quite simply blurted out to the captain "Where the f*ck are you guys going at this time"? Captain, who was no youngster, replied their night was just starting. Here's the summary:

Leg One: LAS w/hour turn
Leg Two: SLC w/three hour sit (keep in mind this is at 2 am)
Leg Three: PHX and done around 7:30
- don't quote me on the actual times, but this was pretty close to what I remember being told

The captain explained to me the only place to go on the 3 hour sit was on airplane, because America West operations in SLC closed up for the night after their arrival. So they would have to sit on the airplane with APU running trying to catch a nap. PATHETIC! I also consider this pretty d@mn dangerous in my book as relates to fatigue. For crying out loud I had better rest conditions when I flew night freight in the Shorts. All this to fly a shiney 70 seat jet.

So while the FA and I went out and had a great time at the bars, the Mesa crew hunkered down in their stretch RJ on a cold Utah night. Sorry man I couldn't tolerate that kind of treatment. Somehow the time and money I put into this career is worth a little more then stretching myself out across the exit row at 4 am.

 

[MarineGrunt]

^ Well, that story does it for me! I will now never travel on Mesa or allow my family members to. I agree, that type of schedule is pretty dangerous. Nothing against the crews, but it looks like that is a ticking time bomb.

 

[Uppercrust]

B777 you make me sick ........ go to Thailand. I don't want you here anymore.... YOU BOTHER ME and people like you are furthering the industry into the sh*ter

God, that avatar makes me sick!!

 

[Mr Biggelsworth]

Hey man, it's my girlfriend.....

 

[Juan Trippe]

Do something positive folks.....

B777 you make me sick ........ go to Thailand. I don't want you here anymore.... YOU BOTHER ME and people like you are furthering the industry into the sh*ter

When you guys post replies like this, you're only hurting the business we're all in, when you could have used the opportunity instead to educate the new people that are attempting to go where we have gone. Tell them if you think it would be a mistake to go somewhere. Tell them the goods and the bads. Help them out a bit so that they might not make the same mistake you made. And, Lord knows we don't want the "other guy" to vote "yes" for that bad contract, or be willing to accept a new job for a terrible wage, or heaven forbid pay to fly!!!! We (current 135, 121 & etc. pilots) all know this only perpetuates some of the "bad" in our jobs.

So instead, we should take advantage of the opportunity to educate these new folks that are entering our career field on "the way it is", and what "would" be a good move to make. In turn our quality of life may also improve in the future by "them" being more informed now.

 

[finnjl]

Exactly the problem with our industry. Pilots love to fly so dam much they think 1500/month to fly an airplane is good. We are all morons for being in this industry. How can any pilot group stand up and say no more when the next group will fly it for almost free as Mesa does.

 

[CFIse]

Granted this was a bad scenario, BUT I have to admit I have never been happier to be where I am then I was one December night in TUS. We were staying at the same Airport Hotel as Mesa. So it was about 9 pm when the FA and I were waiting for cabs to take us to the bars at U of A. As we were waiting I saw a Mesa crew getting on the van. I quite simply blurted out to the captain "Where the f*ck are you guys going at this time"? Captain, who was no youngster, replied their night was just starting. Here's the summary:

Leg One: LAS w/hour turn
Leg Two: SLC w/three hour sit (keep in mind this is at 2 am)
Leg Three: PHX and done around 7:30
- don't quote me on the actual times, but this was pretty close to what I remember being told

The captain explained to me the only place to go on the 3 hour sit was on airplane, because America West operations in SLC closed up for the night after their arrival. So they would have to sit on the airplane with APU running trying to catch a nap. PATHETIC! I also consider this pretty d@mn dangerous in my book as relates to fatigue. For crying out loud I had better rest conditions when I flew night freight in the Shorts. All this to fly a shiney 70 seat jet.

Good news - we have an airline management genius with us who's going to tell us how to fix this.

I guess first of all, what's so outrageously dangerous about a less than 12 hour duty period? How would this schedule go from incredibly dangerous and unsafe to perfectly safe and marvellous by putting the crew in a hotel for an hour in SLC?

Finally - since this is the schedule the Mesa customer wants flown - please suggest how to efficiently and effectively run this schedule while keeping the company profitable.

Camping in the plane for a couple of hours isn't exactly joy, but how this became the most dangerous trip in the world isn't all that clear to me. Lot's of people fly at night - many of them across multiple time zones, but they seem to survive.

 

[Nancy Pryor]

When you guys post replies like this, you're only hurting the business we're all in, when you could have used the opportunity instead to educate the new people that are attempting to go where we have gone. Tell them if you think it would be a mistake to go somewhere. Tell them the goods and the bads. Help them out a bit so that they might not make the same mistake you made. And, Lord knows we don't want the "other guy" to vote "yes" for that bad contract, or be willing to accept a new job for a terrible wage, or heaven forbid pay to fly!!!! We (current 135, 121 & etc. pilots) all know this only perpetuates some of the "bad" in our jobs.

So instead, we should take advantage of the opportunity to educate these new folks that are entering our career field on "the way it is", and what "would" be a good move to make. In turn our quality of life may also improve in the future by "them" being more informed now.

Excellent post that points out one of the reasons this industry is self-destructing for regional pilots. This is an industry for grown ups, not adolescents.

Juan is right on - help and educate the newcomers. It is a waste of time to tell them not to take jobs at Mesa in the belief that this will force Mesa to play nice. If someone takes that bad advice, someone else will just be hired instead. Ever try to herd cats? It's even worse to attack them for having done so while fooling yourself into believing that everything you don't like about the industry is Mesa's fault, or the fault of Mesa's pilots. It's a free market system, and someone is going to be the lowest cost operator. That does not make them evil, no matter how much we might lament the disappearance of the high paying airline jobs of yesterday. That's just the way our market system works, if you can't live with that moving to a communist country or just leaving the industry might be solutions. For those who must have a scapegoat to blame, it's easier to blame something tangible, like Mesa or its pilots, than to blame the real causes of the problem, which are abstract and harder to throw rocks at.

Powerful economic and market forces are at work here, just like with Wal*mart and what's left of the mom'n'pop businesses Wal*mart displaces or destroys (and very similar in nature) and that is what is causing these changes in the airline industry. It started in 1978 with deregulation, took a big leap forward when regional jets arrived at the commuter airlines and is being fueled today by the successful LCCs and the availability of hordes of low time freshly hatched pilots who have a chance to jump directly into a transport jet without first having to pay their dues elsewhere for a few to a lot of years the way most of their predecessors did. And given that opportunity, of course most will take it, though hopefully with a real appreciation of how relatively easily they got there compared to many of their predecessors. All these new pilots need helpful guidance from the more experienced people. Most are willing to learn and welcome your advice, the few spoiled children who manage to get hired have a strong sense of entitlement and won't really listen at first anyway.

Any educated person can see the economic trend in the airline industry, and roughly where this trend is leading. Blaming your fellow pilots only creates an additional problem for everyone, and then we read posts from people wondering why other crews aren't friendly in the hotel van or walking through the terminal. Instead of attacking those pilots whose working conditions are worse than yours, try appreciating that your working conditions are better than theirs.

 

[El Ocho]

Powerful economic and market forces are at work here, just like with Wal*mart and what's left of the mom'n'pop businesses Wal*mart displaces or destroys (and very similar in nature) and that is what is causing these changes in the airline industry.

I think that Powerful economic force is simply consumers' choices.

Unfortunately the consumer is an idiot! If they bothered to THINK about consequenses of their spending, they wouldn't go to Wal-Fart, but, that's not the case is it?

When we teach our citizens to think about more than their convenience, and realize their presence in this world has consequences, maybe things can improve. But for now, we are stuck with the consequenses of our bad decisions... or our non-decisions...

But of course first we would have to be people who CARE, and that's been tainted as a LIBERAL notion, so maybe the first step is to overcome that republican propaganda that compassion, understanding, and empathy is bad or weak or whatever...

 

[Nancy Pryor]

I think that Powerful economic force is simply consumers' choices.

Yes, that's a significant part of it.

Unfortunately the consumer is an idiot! If they bothered to THINK about consequenses of their spending, they wouldn't go to Wal-Fart, but, that's not the case is it?

I wouldn't have phrased it quite like you have, but I agree.

When we teach our citizens to think about more than their convenience, and realize there presence in this world has consequences, maybe things can improve. But for now, we are stuck with the consequenses of our bad decisions... or our non-decisions...

Again, I agree with you. I'd take it one step further - let's start by teaching those people to think rather than regurgitate what the talking heads on tv and at the water cooler in cubeland drone on about, but that's a problem for what's left of our educational system and what little is left of good parenting skills these days.

But of course first we would have to be people who CARE, and that's been tainted as a LIBERAL notion, so maybe the first step is to overcome that republican propaganda that compassion, understanding, and empathy is bad or weak or whatever...

What on earth does "compassion, understanding, and empathy" have to do with deciding whether to shop at Wal*mart or buy a cheaper airline ticket? Without agreeing or disagreeing that what you describe is "republican propaganda", how does that relate to the state of the regional airline industry? There are a lot of people who "care" out there, and yet we still have the situation we have. Please explain.

 

[ROJO]

Mesa was just fine.

I flew at Mesa and I thought it was a pretty good job. Based in PHX flying the Dash-8 to all the ski towns was fun, and I never felt "abused" more than any other regional pilot I spoke with. People will complain about the low pay and other typical regional airline drawbacks. The pay IS low, and you will face hardships from time to time in terms of scheduling, overnights, etc. But you must realize that these are the facts of life at a regional. All those things will improve with some seniority.

I agree that you should do what's best for YOU. My experience at Mesa was very positive, for what it was. I left the industry years ago to pursue a career in the Foreign Service....and I can tell you it was a tough call. I'm an adventure-seeker, and the airlines were somewhat boring for me, but as a job....Mesa was OK in my book.

Best of luck to you!!

 

[B777]

Even when you do upgrade and begin getting your PIC time, good luck competing with the other 10,000 RJ captains out there looking for jobs. Not to mention all the Indy guys now looking for jobs, and all those furloughed AA, DAL, USAir, etc. guys looking for jobs. How about the ATA guys looking for jobs? Don't think that they're not competing for CX and those other places too.

Bottom line, don't worry about upgrade time, etc. because that is always changing. You NEVER know, despite what Kit Darby and all those a$$holes say. They don't know their butt from a hole in the ground.......they're only interested in taking your money. Look at bases, QOL. Where do you want to live, who's going to treat you the best? You're going to be at a Regional for a while, like it or not. So you might as well be happy.

Good luck.

I am not sure I agree with you on the first paragraph. Granted that there are lot of experienced pilots out there right now, but I am not sure that will affect if you get hired by let's say SWA, CX, etc. It's all about your personality and how well you interview. My good friend was hired into a right seat in the MD-80 right out of a 402 job with Cap Air. He had only about 4000 hours and none of it was jet time. He raised a lot of eyebrows when got hired, but if you meet him you would understand why. He has a great sense of humor and great personality. He is the type of guy that you want to be with on that 5-6 days trip. So just because there are a ton of experienced pilots out there, it does not mean the chances of me moving on is less likely.

As far as the Air Inc and Kit Darby, I could not agree more! There are some informational articles that are good to know, for example in the last one was about de-icing. But for everything they say about airlines in their articles, either half of it is wrong or they polish it up so good and make it look like it's the best thing that's every gonna happen to you.

That's why I came here, to get the straight answer.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I am not sure I agree with you on the first paragraph. Granted that there are lot of experienced pilots out there right now, but I am not sure that will affect if you get hired by let's say SWA, CX, etc. It's all about your personality and how well you interview.

Yes, that is correct. You do, however, have to get the interview first. I think the point that was being made is that your resume is going to be in a stack with guys that have flown anything from F-18's to B-2's to 747's. You will be competing against some of the most experienced individuals in the profession at a place like Southwest or CX. A year in the left seat of a 1900 is going to be tough to draw any attention to unless you know the right people.

 

[El Ocho]

Again, I agree with you. I'd take it one step further - let's start by teaching those people to think rather than regurgitate what the talking heads on tv and at the water cooler in cubeland drone on about, but that's a problem for what's left of our educational system and what little is left of good parenting skills these days.

Agreed!

What on earth does "compassion, understanding, and empathy" have to do with deciding whether to shop at Wal*mart or buy a cheaper airline ticket? Without agreeing or disagreeing that what you describe is "republican propaganda", how does that relate to the state of the regional airline industry? There are a lot of people who "care" out there, and yet we still have the situation we have. Please explain.

Well, why would you choose NOT to shop at Wal-Mart? Would it be because you were aware of their bad consequences for your community? And so what? If you don't CARE and UNDERSTAND and EMPATHIZE with your community, "F-em! I want convenience and low price!"

Caring is the first step toward acting rightly... It should follow naturally but it does require integrity... perhaps yet another problem to be tackled...

You see?

And relation to regional airline industry... Well, it's a complicated issue, but I guess as long as people basically suck and are ignorant, the problems will continue!

Part of the problem as I see it is that we don't think clearly as citizens, and are very susceptible to propaganda. Currently, with the republicans in control of everything, this is republican propaganda, which is particularly insidious because its main focus is not citizens, but corporations. So, obviously business profits are up, but employment conditions are down... Or more accurately, the environment is beneficial for the needs of businesses, but not for the needs of workers.

 

[RJP]

Oh by the way, RJP, care to elaborate as to why I am a pathetic whore? Perhaps pilos like me can learn on how to become a glorfied pilot like you?

"Pilos", I love those things at the Greek restaurant around the corner. But seriously, you could never be a glorified pilot like me.

I admire what I learned about Mesa's leader Jonathan Ornstein.

Strike one, two, three. You've proven you know nothing about the job you're hoping to get into.

I'm really glad I found flightinfo and lurk on a regular basis. It is probably the best thing I have done for my aviation career,

"The best thing...?". It's obviously smarter than being a Marine but probably a push when it comes to flying a tanker.

In todays airline market, a commuter airline will now be a CAREER instead of a stepping stone to the major airlines like in the past.

Yet B777 says he'll get a TON of time in three years and jet off to far away lands to fly for someone like Cathay. He's obviously got the system wired since none of us have figured this out yet.

If you want my true advice,........RUN from this industry...SAVE YOURSELF!

On the contrary. I think Mesa will be perfect for B777. Give it a shot and check back with us in a year or so.

I actually took a pay cut to start this career and my friends and family think I am crazy to jump in such an industry.

Maybe you should take some advice from friends and family....nah, just go to Mesa and prove 'em right.

B777 you make me sick ........ go to Thailand. I don't want you here anymore.... YOU BOTHER ME and people like you are furthering the industry into the sh*ter

DON'T send him to Thailand. That place rules.

So it was about 9 pm when the FA and I were waiting for cabs to take us to the bars at U of A.

Hope you went to Dirtbags. "It's a part of growing up" or so the slogan goes. I love that place.

So to sum it up. GO TO MESA! If you're impressed by JO, want to fly a shiny jet and don't care that you work with minimal days off, it's the place for you. This, youngster, is why you're a pathetic whore.

 

[mckpickle]

I have never done reasearch on my own about Mesa and all I know is that Mesa sucks because almost every pilot I talk to say so. Matter of fact one time I was talking to a Comair pilot that said he would quit if they were bought over by Mesa.

Then I read the article about Mesa in Air Inc's Airline Pilot Careers magazine and I realized that is actually a place that I would like to work! In addition, I admire what I learned about Mesa's leader Jonathan Ornstein. This guy went from being an a/c cleaner to turning around Expressjet, then taking on Mesa and turning Mesa into one of the most competitive regional in the industry.

But again, this information is from a source that I don't wholeheartly trust: Air Inc. (due to inaccuracies I have discovered from their taped interviews to their information published about some airlines in their articles, etc.) So therfore I have decided to go directly to Mesa pilots and get their input.

Here's why I think it is a good place for me to work at. In the article, they indciated that upgrade is usually with in 2 years. You fly a lot, minimum days off is 10 days. That's great. I am single and I want to fly as much as possible to accumulate hours. Matter of fact, I would love to time out by Dec 1! That's one month off with pay! So yeah, crew scheduling can call me anytime they want, I would love to fly. Or is it not so? What am I missing out of this picture?

Now about pay. First year FO on the prop is $1555 a month or $1754 on a jet. Not bad. 1st year FO pay for Expressjet is $1808. Now here's the difference though. If I upgrade in 2 years, that means my pay in the begining of the 3rd year (at 25 month of service) would be from the low of $2711 a month if I was a captain on the BE1900 or $5268 a month on the CRJ-900. If I was at Expressjet, I would be an FO during my 25th month of service and I would be paid $2857 a month. So there is a chance I could be making more at Mesa and I would be accumulating PIC time. If I would compare Captain pay ERJ for ERJ, Mesa is at $4657 a month while Expressjet is at $5108. So it is definelty less when compared rate for rate. However, in reality, an Expressjet pilot would be getting paid more than me for the 1st two years, but I will be making more for the 3rd and 4th year (estimated upgrade time at Expressjet as of today is 4 years).

At Mesa, I have more choices of airplanes I can fly and bases I could bid into! Actually, the airplane I really want to fly is the CRJ-700. Something I can not do if I was to work for Expressjet and few other regionals for that matter.

In addition, depending of which base you choose, you can have flight benefits on one of the following airlines: UA, US, DL, and HP. I would prefer US as they allow companinons (or whaterver they are called depending on what airline, girlfrined, significant other, etc.) to travel free of charge. According to the acrticle, as a Mesa pilot you get the same benefits as the airline which you are flying for. True to some point. I can tell you with DL, you get the same benefit, but at a lower pirority (except OH and ASA but not for too long for ASA). Never the less, my companion travles for free and that's what matters to me.

Now about Union matters. Before I read the article, I thought Mesa pilots did not even have a union! This is how misinformed I was. Then I learened pilots of Mesa, Freedom and CC Air are all under the same ALPA seniority. Matter of fact a Mesa pilot can bid into Freedom and vice versa. So what's the big issue about Freedom then? Was it an issue before and now solved? Also, what is CC Air?

before I read the article, my top choices were Comair, Expressjet, AWAC, and Skywest. But now I am considering as Mesa to be my top choice. I will be represented by ALPA, the pay is OK I have seen worse, I will upgrade in 2 years, stay another year with MESA as a captain to rack up PIC time, and then move on to a bigger and better job. So to me it sounds like Mesa is a good place to go as long as you know what to expect.

Am I missing something over here? Mesa pilots, please help.

First of all JO NEVER turned around Express Jet. My father was there durring the blood rein of JO. It was not a pretty place and he was asked to leave. That guy not even human.


As for the rest of your post, please....GO TO MESA. I honestly don't want someone like you at XJT.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

B777,

CptVeggeto (or whatever his screenname is) is pretty much right on in his depiction of life at Mesa. I was only there for just under 2 years. I have very mixed feelings on the place and I'll share.

For one, I was miserable 24-7 when I was there. Toward the end I even accepted and didn't care to pursue $500.00 pay discrepancies. Dealing with management there is worse than getting run over by a car. When I went through Parris Island, I believe I had drill instructors who were more compassionate than EVERYONE in Mesa Management. I sat ready reserve in 12 hour blocks sometimes 8 times a month in the DEN crewroom. I literally was paid 1 hour to every 7 (average) that I spent actually WORKING for Mesa. I regularly flew 4-day trips extended to 6 days, worth 12 hours of pay. I was threatened personally and professionally by the PHX regional CP for comments made on the mesalounge. I witnessed times being altered in CrewWeb regularly to keep it Legal.

Seriously, this place made be deeply depressed. Each week I was surprised with new hardships worse than ones incurred a week prior. I can only compare my experience working at Mesa with being kicked in the ballsac repeatedly.

On the other hand, living in Denver I met my girlfriend, who has proven very worthwhile. I also got 1000 hrs of turbine PIC in a short time having been hired as a street captain in the dash. I managed to get in and out of Mesa in 1 year and 10 months. I'm now at a place where I'm home every night, flying nice equipment, working with good people, and truely happy with all aspects of my job. Could I have gotten here without Mesa? Probably not.

It's great being FORMER mesa, but hell being current mesa. I seriously think I would have left mesa to wait tables if I had to be there another month or two. I had truley reached the end of my rope with them.

As is always said, success in this business is really about luck and timimg. My experience was mostly bad, but it could have been alot worse.

 

[mckpickle]

B777

Work rules are very important in this industry. Although the hourly rates may be similiar, overall compensation between companies can very greatly. Trip and duty rigs, premium pay, block or better, minimum daily guarantee, pay for cancelled flights, and deadhead pay. etc all can make a significant difference in you pay check. Last year I received a total of 1125 hours of pay, of which 924 hours of it was for the 789 hours that I blocked. I received 135 hours of pay stricly based upon the work rules we currently have. The additional 201 hours of pay include some reserve time, training, sick/vacation time, and holiday pay. If I worked for Mesa I'm sure I wouldn't have received that 135 hours of pay.

Eight days off a month is terrible. One day you may decide to have a life outside of flying, at that point you'll be hating life. Remeber this is a JOB, not a way of life, hobby or some grand adventure. You should strive to maximize income and time off, not the other way around.

This point cannot be stressed enough. Express Jet doesn't have the best contract in the industry because we have the highest pay rates. We have the best contract because we have the best work rules. Those work rules can be used to "trade" lots of time off for pay. Or if you are lazy like me you can have close to 200 days off a year and still do ok at 75K in pay. There are other guys much junior to me who worked a lot more and made 85-90K.

 

[Bladestall]

Go to Gulfstream and pay for training! You can even buy a Captain slot! Daddy will pay for it!

 

[nimtz]

Good news - we have an airline management genius with us who's going to tell us how to fix this.

I guess first of all, what's so outrageously dangerous about a less than 12 hour duty period? How would this schedule go from incredibly dangerous and unsafe to perfectly safe and marvellous by putting the crew in a hotel for an hour in SLC?

Finally - since this is the schedule the Mesa customer wants flown - please suggest how to efficiently and effectively run this schedule while keeping the company profitable.

Camping in the plane for a couple of hours isn't exactly joy, but how this became the most dangerous trip in the world isn't all that clear to me. Lot's of people fly at night - many of them across multiple time zones, but they seem to survive.

Hey maybe they will be nice enough to offer guys like you a little KY next contract time. I'm sure the AMERICA WEST customer would be extremely glad to know their crew spent the prime REM Sleep hours of the night tented up in that jet most passengers consider too d@mn claustrophobic inducing. Don't know of a single other airline with any type of highspeed/stand-up overnight system that won't at least put their crews up somewhere with a bed or at least a lazyboy for crying out loud.

I never called it the most dangerous in the world, but nevertheless that set-up was inherently bad from a fatigue standpoint. Anytime you have a lengthy sit it drains alot of your motivation at work. Throw that sit in the middle of the night and then tell me your rest spot is seats 12B/C then I would say you got a overly legitmate fatigue issue with the average healthy person. You want to keep work rules similiar to this be my freaking guest pal. All in the name of keeping the airline profitable. You just hope Johnny creates some new Freedom type excuse for you to blame your next dogsh!t contract on. But at least you'll upgrade in two years.

 

[mckpickle]

Hey maybe they will be nice enough to offer guys like you a little KY next contract time. I'm sure the AMERICA WEST customer would be extremely glad to know their crew spent the prime REM Sleep hours of the night tented up in that jet most passengers consider too d@mn claustrophobic inducing. Don't know of a single other airline with any type of highspeed/stand-up overnight system that won't at least put their crews up somewhere with a bed or at least a lazyboy for crying out loud.

I never called it the most dangerous in the world, but nevertheless that set-up was inherently bad from a fatigue standpoint. Anytime you have a lengthy sit it drains alot of your motivation at work. Throw that sit in the middle of the night and then tell me your rest spot is seats 12B/C then I would say you got a overly legitmate fatigue issue with the average healthy person. You want to keep work rules similiar to this be my freaking guest pal. All in the name of keeping the airline profitable. You just hope Johnny creates some new Freedom type excuse for you to blame your next dogsh!t contract on. But at least you'll upgrade in two years.

It is unsafe my friend! Thats why our union used it's negotiating capital to get us rules saying no more that 2 legs while doing backside of the clock flying! Of course I'm sure you still can't land even with 12 hours of sleep

ps...I hung with Mike B in DC the last couple days. We discussed it and we're canceling cass for AW/XJT Ya know, just to hose you!

 

[jagmagic]

B777 you have to do whats best for you and only you. Dont listen to people like Mr biggelsworth who are pissed of at the world b/c they are flying for a crappy regional. Alot of people on this thread have some great information for you but do what is best for you. I always wanted to be in the airliners and when they started to go down the tubes things changed and I went into corporate flying. Dont set your goals so high that you cant reach them. the airlines an regionals and so infested with over qualifed guys that have more experience then you and me combined. if you go to any regional upgrade time is going to be alot longer then 2 yrs. I have had some friends go to mesa and leave after a few months b/c they where closing these podunct bases and moving them somewhere else. If you are really into the regionals try Air Wisconsin i hear they are not a bad place to work. There is so really good insight on this page, so read it and take it as you will.