Mesa Pilot Development?

[wheelsup]

Why would you consider the ab-initio approach so much more successful. Don't forget to answer.

For the answer, please refer to my previous post. In referencing to notforgetting to answer, if that's not smug I don't know what is.

As for working for free, I hardly doubt it. A lot of people complain about pay, but most regionals are all similar to eachother the first couple years. Upgrade at mesa has been steadilycreeping upward however. It's no longer the "get in and get out"airline so much anymore - from what I hear.

The biggest determining factor for the PACE guys is attitude. And fromthe limited exposure to yours on this post, I'd say you'd be better offat Gulfstream. But don't say I didn't warn ya.

~wheelsup

Edit: What's up with this forum putting words together? I double-checked and all my words have spaces...kinda annoying.

 

[FlyJordan]

yeah I heard that too, if you work for Mesa everyother pilot in the world treast you like trash cause they think because your company pays so crappy and you are willing to work for that pay that their company got the bright idea to pay crappy because Mesa did and now they blame you for them not making enough money.

 

[ROJO]

When I flew for Mesa I never got treated badly by any other pilots. I got jump seats all over the place without any trouble. We at Mesa also treated fellow pilots with respect and courtesy when they wanted jumpseats to Aspen, Telluride or any other nice place we were flying. It's amazing how NICE the jumpseater will be when he wants a flight to his ski condo and you are the only way he can get there. Didn't hear any Mesa-bashing from those guys.

It's just professional courtesy. There are some pilots out there with a bitter sense of entitlement. No matter what company you fly for, somebody else will think you, personally, are a scumbag for whatever reason. Be courteous and professional to your fellow pilots and they will more than likely treat you the same way.

 

[DX Rick]

do your research on www.mesalounge.com
Sounds like quite a few guys who go through the PACE program, get dumped in the streets.

 

[mcjohn]

For the answer, please refer to my previous post. In referencing to notforgetting to answer, if that's not smug I don't know what is.


The biggest determining factor for the PACE guys is attitude. And fromthe limited exposure to yours on this post, I'd say you'd be better offat Gulfstream. But don't say I didn't warn ya.

~wheelsup

Edit: What's up with this forum putting words together? I double-checked and all my words have spaces...kinda annoying.

It's just that I went on about something off topic after my question. No to need to be nasty.

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa......

There is absolutely no reason for adults who were smart enough to learn to fly an airplane to act this way! This is just plain and simple snobbery. Lighten up and have some humility. I'm a bellman in hotel and I'd expect that if this guy walked by he'd spit in face because of the crappy job I have. I don't care how low the pay would be for my 1st job as long as it kept me away from these type of people.

 

[flyguy_022]

I have pilots say to me from mesa is if you have the passion to fly, do it, its worth it.......if you are looking looking into MAPD. But if youre just looking for money...its not for you

 

[airjackson]

The last time I checked, the military paid it's pilots from day one. Please refrain from the comparison.

 

[mayday1]

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa.....

nice comment.. anything else constructive to add to this board..?

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD v. Gulfstream

If I went to MAPD I would go in with commercial single engine. I would have to get my multi training there. Do you think having recieved PPL and Instrument rating in southeast over a couple years would have an effect on hireability out of PACE type program? Why would you consider the ab-initio approach so much more successful. Don't forget to answer.

You would be wasting your money by obtaining your CSEL, or even your Private, before going to MAPD's ab initio program. The place will still make you take its Private course. Aside from having to unlearn whatever procedures you learned to receive MAPD standardization, why pay twice?

The ab initio program is better because you start with zero time and with no preconceived notions about flying and procedures and learn the airline way of flying from the beginning. Foreign airlines that train their own pilots train them ab initio their way. In other words, the only aviation these pilots know is what their company taught them.

In MAPD's case, students who may have never been in an airplane before are trained in Bonanzas from the first day in Mesa line procedures. They learn about constant-speed props and retractable gear from the first day. Operating these items becomes second nature to them because they knew nothing different. Compare to being trained in simple, fixed-gear singles.

Another reason why Mesa's ab initio training is so effective is because the Beech Bonanza and Baron layouts are similar, which are similar still to the Beech 1900s. (Orignally, the first airplane to which Mesa new-hires were assigned was the 1900; some go to jets now.) There is a real building-block training concept at MAPD, though I understand that instead of MAPD students getting ten hours in the 1900 they now get time in a CRJ or ERJ sim.

I don't have a problem with GIA or MAPD. I know it's best to instruct but that shouldn't be the only way. Even if it is the best and most traditional way, the military never used that standard.

You need to have a problem with Gulfstream. Gulfstream is pay-for-training, and everything that pay-for-training implies. We discussed that last week.

In contrast, MAPD's 141 ab initio program is not P-F-T. I instructed there. It is a flight school, but geared, of course, to Mesa Airlines. The only thing about MAPD that is a given is you will earn your initial ratings and a degree from San Juan College. In contrast to P-F-T, where one gives money to an employer in exchange for a job, at MAPD you are paying for flight training, only.

PACE is pay-for-interview, which is tantamount to P-F-T. Further,

do your research on www.mesalounge.com
Sounds like quite a few guys who go through the PACE program, get dumped in the streets.

What a surprise. Isn't that what some of us have been saying about pay-for-interview?? Your odds are better with betting the same money in Laughlin.

Finally, while Mesa Airlines may suck as a company, the experience you get there is recognized everywhere. No one says you have to make Mesa your career. It's a means to an end. I don't remember the poster's name, but the wife of an MAPD grad wrote several months ago how her husband went through the program, got on with Mesa, upgraded to Captain, and eventually got on with his goal airline, Alaska Airlines. I once heard that AW has hired a lot of Mesa pilots.

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD Pay

A lot of negitive comments have floated my way on Mesa, my old CFI stared working there for practally free (cause thats how bad they pay) and he hates it, says not only do they pay crappy but they are just a very poor company to work for in general, he is leaving as soon as contract is up.

I worked there in 1993. I was paid $15/hour plus whatever San Juan College paid me for teaching ground school.

The $15/hour wasn't bad at the beginning because it added up. I was working hard - probably too hard. But, at the end of the term, there was no work, so pay dried up quickly. The no-work idea wouldn't have been so bad had the school not required me to stay in town and sit "reserve." I stuck around; not once did my phone ring about students wanting to fly.

 

[urflyingme?!]

OK, I would do the PACE program if I were you, and you wanted a fast route to a regional.
I am in my Multi semester and am in a 75% PACE multi groundschool. The only difference between the PACE and ab graduates is a degree and your initial training. Whether or not you have a multi rating or not you MUST go through the MAPD multi ground. The class is very in depth and taught this semester by a highly expierienced(sp?) airline captain. We also receive an in depth IFR refresher course, as well as an exceedingly in depth ground school on the cl 65(which 95% of grads are going to ) after you finish crj ground, multi ground , multi flying and learn the MESA GOM/CRM you go to 40 hours of cl 65 simulation. Basically you fly the line for a week with a mesa captain. THEN you get to interview, and pass a 50 question ATP written test before you interview, i do not believe people on the street do this.

I'm not sure that many PACE people are getting dropped, a lot of the failures to get hired are blamed on attempted concealments on criminal/drving records, and bad attitude.

Hope this helps.

 

[((7))]

"I'm not sure that many PACE people are getting dropped, a lot of the failures to get hired are blamed on attempted concealments on criminal/drving records, and bad attitude."

Or- Your D**KS**king skills isn't up to MESA pilot standards. The pilot group at MAG has demonstrated to the industry their ability to Blow the Hebrew at the helm of this POS for many years. Go ahead and join up. The Coc#suckers are allways looking for another idiot like themselves. No jumpseat on my command, go buy a ticket or take the Grayhound. The bus terminal will prepare you for MAG's Indoc and Corporate culture.

 

[wheelsup]

The $15/hour wasn't bad at the beginning because it added up..

I'm *pretty sure* he was talking about flying the line. I sure hope he wasn't complaining about working as a CFI...$26,000 - $32,000/yr ain't bad...if he was complaining about that just wait till he gets to any regional

~wheelsup

 

[R0NIN]

You guys r CrazEE!!!!

"$26,000 - $32,000/yr "

-Ain't that bad huh?

I need a few employees too...

 

[mcjohn]

((7)) - Grow up. You should not be flying.
Remember the real reasons why airlines are goining bankrupt.

The only difference between the PACE and ab graduates is a degree and your initial training. Whether or not you have a multi rating or not you MUST go through the MAPD multi ground.

What kind of multi-training, what aircraft?
Isn't there a sim for that plane and what is the quality like?

 

[mattpilot]

No jumpseat on my command, go buy a ticket or take the Grayhound.

LOL... i don't think anyone would ever want to jumpseat on your 152

 

[wheelsup]

What kind of multi-training, what aircraft?

Do a little research first, mate...

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Option A[/font]
​

• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10 hours of BE-58 Baron training [/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 hours in a Baron flight-training device (Frasca 242) [/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40 hours in the JetSim (20 hours right/20 hours left) [/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group for a 1st Officer position upon successful completion of this program.[/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Multi-Engine Ground School and Jet Systems Course [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Option B[/font]
​

• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Multi-Engine Rating in FAR Part 141 course which includes [/font]
  • [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 hours of BE-58 Baron training plus FAA Practical Test[/font]
  • [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]14.5 hours in a Baron flight-training device (Frasca 242) [/font]
  • [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Multi-Engine Ground School and Jet Systems Course [/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40 hours in the JetSim (20 hours right/20 hours left) [/font]
• [font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group for a 1st Officer position upon successful completion of this program.[/font]​

  
  ​

Posted on www.flightcareers.com

Regardless of if you have a multi or not, you must go through the ground school for the multi and complete training (Option A people have their multi already, option B people do not) in the Baron Frasca 242 Sim and Baron B-58 airplane.

Honestly, you would not make it successfully thru the program - you must be able to think on your own (seriously). Stop looking for handouts and call them for pete's sake...

~wheelsup

 

[mcjohn]

Students receive their Commercial multi-engine training in this six-seat twin engine aircraft which features state-of-the art navigational equipment. The aircraft has a maximum range of 1575 nautical miles and a cruising speed of almost 200 knots. The Barons are equipped with color weather radar and full de-icing equipment.

nice!

 

[wheelsup]

There are 3 barons, 2 with radar and tcas, one with de-ice equipment. We share them with the ASU campus.

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI Pay

"$26,000 - $32,000/yr "

That's decent money for flight instructing. Not as good as the foreign airline academies, though, and still better than first-year FO pay anywhere.