Mesa Pilot Development?

[mcjohn]

If I went to MAPD I would go in with commercial single engine. I would have to get my multi training there. Do you think having recieved PPL and Instrument rating in southeast over a couple years would have an effect on hireability out of PACE type program? Why would you consider the ab-initio approach so much more successful. Don't forget to answer.

I don't have a problem with GIA or MAPD. I know it's best to instruct but that shouldn't be the only way. Even if it is the best and most traditional way, the military never used that standard.
My problem with GIA as of now is the cost of the program mixed with the expensive location. I already have debt.
My opportuninty to receive excellent free training for larger aircraft and CRM expired when I turned 27. I didn't meet the dead line to have the government pay the bill. From what I hear these so called PFTs are not easy to pass through just as the military's set-up supposedly isn't easy. All these programs are to me are a way for civilians to recieve the same format of training they may have received in the military through private "for profit" businesses.

 

[FlyJordan]

A lot of negitive comments have floated my way on Mesa, my old CFI stared working there for practally free (cause thats how bad they pay) and he hates it, says not only do they pay crappy but they are just a very poor company to work for in general, he is leaving as soon as contract is up.

 

[flyguy_022]

Well not that its a bad program (MAPD) its actually pretty good, its just working for Mesa in general after you finish is the question. The reaction I get from the piolts when I ask there opinion...they always say," just dont get on anyones sh*t list or bad side because it will suck for you" "just go do what you gotta do and find a new airline after your contract ends"

 

[Butafucco]

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa.....

 

[flyguy_022]

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa.....

Did you fly with Mesa?

 

[wheelsup]

Why would you consider the ab-initio approach so much more successful. Don't forget to answer.

For the answer, please refer to my previous post. In referencing to notforgetting to answer, if that's not smug I don't know what is.

As for working for free, I hardly doubt it. A lot of people complain about pay, but most regionals are all similar to eachother the first couple years. Upgrade at mesa has been steadilycreeping upward however. It's no longer the "get in and get out"airline so much anymore - from what I hear.

The biggest determining factor for the PACE guys is attitude. And fromthe limited exposure to yours on this post, I'd say you'd be better offat Gulfstream. But don't say I didn't warn ya.

~wheelsup

Edit: What's up with this forum putting words together? I double-checked and all my words have spaces...kinda annoying.

 

[FlyJordan]

yeah I heard that too, if you work for Mesa everyother pilot in the world treast you like trash cause they think because your company pays so crappy and you are willing to work for that pay that their company got the bright idea to pay crappy because Mesa did and now they blame you for them not making enough money.

 

[ROJO]

When I flew for Mesa I never got treated badly by any other pilots. I got jump seats all over the place without any trouble. We at Mesa also treated fellow pilots with respect and courtesy when they wanted jumpseats to Aspen, Telluride or any other nice place we were flying. It's amazing how NICE the jumpseater will be when he wants a flight to his ski condo and you are the only way he can get there. Didn't hear any Mesa-bashing from those guys.

It's just professional courtesy. There are some pilots out there with a bitter sense of entitlement. No matter what company you fly for, somebody else will think you, personally, are a scumbag for whatever reason. Be courteous and professional to your fellow pilots and they will more than likely treat you the same way.

 

[DX Rick]

do your research on www.mesalounge.com
Sounds like quite a few guys who go through the PACE program, get dumped in the streets.

 

[mcjohn]

For the answer, please refer to my previous post. In referencing to notforgetting to answer, if that's not smug I don't know what is.


The biggest determining factor for the PACE guys is attitude. And fromthe limited exposure to yours on this post, I'd say you'd be better offat Gulfstream. But don't say I didn't warn ya.

~wheelsup

Edit: What's up with this forum putting words together? I double-checked and all my words have spaces...kinda annoying.

It's just that I went on about something off topic after my question. No to need to be nasty.

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa......

There is absolutely no reason for adults who were smart enough to learn to fly an airplane to act this way! This is just plain and simple snobbery. Lighten up and have some humility. I'm a bellman in hotel and I'd expect that if this guy walked by he'd spit in face because of the crappy job I have. I don't care how low the pay would be for my 1st job as long as it kept me away from these type of people.

 

[flyguy_022]

I have pilots say to me from mesa is if you have the passion to fly, do it, its worth it.......if you are looking looking into MAPD. But if youre just looking for money...its not for you

 

[airjackson]

The last time I checked, the military paid it's pilots from day one. Please refrain from the comparison.

 

[mayday1]

If you aspire to be associated with the scum of the industry and get no respect from most professional pilots...then go with mesa.....

nice comment.. anything else constructive to add to this board..?

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD v. Gulfstream

If I went to MAPD I would go in with commercial single engine. I would have to get my multi training there. Do you think having recieved PPL and Instrument rating in southeast over a couple years would have an effect on hireability out of PACE type program? Why would you consider the ab-initio approach so much more successful. Don't forget to answer.

You would be wasting your money by obtaining your CSEL, or even your Private, before going to MAPD's ab initio program. The place will still make you take its Private course. Aside from having to unlearn whatever procedures you learned to receive MAPD standardization, why pay twice?

The ab initio program is better because you start with zero time and with no preconceived notions about flying and procedures and learn the airline way of flying from the beginning. Foreign airlines that train their own pilots train them ab initio their way. In other words, the only aviation these pilots know is what their company taught them.

In MAPD's case, students who may have never been in an airplane before are trained in Bonanzas from the first day in Mesa line procedures. They learn about constant-speed props and retractable gear from the first day. Operating these items becomes second nature to them because they knew nothing different. Compare to being trained in simple, fixed-gear singles.

Another reason why Mesa's ab initio training is so effective is because the Beech Bonanza and Baron layouts are similar, which are similar still to the Beech 1900s. (Orignally, the first airplane to which Mesa new-hires were assigned was the 1900; some go to jets now.) There is a real building-block training concept at MAPD, though I understand that instead of MAPD students getting ten hours in the 1900 they now get time in a CRJ or ERJ sim.

I don't have a problem with GIA or MAPD. I know it's best to instruct but that shouldn't be the only way. Even if it is the best and most traditional way, the military never used that standard.

You need to have a problem with Gulfstream. Gulfstream is pay-for-training, and everything that pay-for-training implies. We discussed that last week.

In contrast, MAPD's 141 ab initio program is not P-F-T. I instructed there. It is a flight school, but geared, of course, to Mesa Airlines. The only thing about MAPD that is a given is you will earn your initial ratings and a degree from San Juan College. In contrast to P-F-T, where one gives money to an employer in exchange for a job, at MAPD you are paying for flight training, only.

PACE is pay-for-interview, which is tantamount to P-F-T. Further,

do your research on www.mesalounge.com
Sounds like quite a few guys who go through the PACE program, get dumped in the streets.

What a surprise. Isn't that what some of us have been saying about pay-for-interview?? Your odds are better with betting the same money in Laughlin.

Finally, while Mesa Airlines may suck as a company, the experience you get there is recognized everywhere. No one says you have to make Mesa your career. It's a means to an end. I don't remember the poster's name, but the wife of an MAPD grad wrote several months ago how her husband went through the program, got on with Mesa, upgraded to Captain, and eventually got on with his goal airline, Alaska Airlines. I once heard that AW has hired a lot of Mesa pilots.

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD Pay

A lot of negitive comments have floated my way on Mesa, my old CFI stared working there for practally free (cause thats how bad they pay) and he hates it, says not only do they pay crappy but they are just a very poor company to work for in general, he is leaving as soon as contract is up.

I worked there in 1993. I was paid $15/hour plus whatever San Juan College paid me for teaching ground school.

The $15/hour wasn't bad at the beginning because it added up. I was working hard - probably too hard. But, at the end of the term, there was no work, so pay dried up quickly. The no-work idea wouldn't have been so bad had the school not required me to stay in town and sit "reserve." I stuck around; not once did my phone ring about students wanting to fly.