Mesa Pace prgram

[captdorn81]

Well I'm going to be graduating college in a few months. When I'm done I will have my multi comercial instrument. My question is, Is the Mesa pace program worth it? From what I understand when your done you get an interview for an FO slot. Anyways If anyone has done it or knows more about it let me know thanks.

 

[rajflyboy]

I guess its worth it. But you will be lucky to make 20,000 your first year with MESA. Then you have to pay back the student loans.

It will work but its also the school of Hard Knocks.

 

[f9driver]

Check Out Ornstein

I would rather work at McDonalds than Ornstein.......

 

[350DRIVER]

It is by far the fastest route to the right seat and the positives outweigh the negatives by far in my opinion. I have never flown for Mesa but if I had to do it all over again and start from scratch knowing all that I know now this is the route in which I would have went, would have shaved years off of the time it took to get to the airlines. I have had quite a few friends, former students, co-workers, etc, who went through the Mesa program(s) and all have been successful in this industry and all seem quite pleased with this "stepping stone". Mesa is nothing more than a "stepping stone", build your 121 time and get out, bottom line. No pilot in their right mind would call Mesa a "career carrier" but 121 time is 121 time, it doesn't come in different colors nor is one regional viewed as "superior" experience over another when it comes time to leave to interview and move on to biggger and better carriers. Pay should be the farthest thing from your mind at this point so accept it, put in your time, and move on. Seriously consider taking a tour of the Farmington area and speak to people who are or were in this program, Mesa takes pride in it so they will put you directly in contact with former and/or current students of the program.

Mesa, Chitaco, etc, and are all in the same boat +/- a few bucks, you will make peanuts so accept that and you won't have any problems with spending a few years at Mesa. If you do go the Mesa route you need to be prepared since they don't "babysit" nor will they spoon feed you and take you by the hand to ensure your success. This is a very standardized program and if you fall behind the curve then the rest will be history. Study hard, keep your nose clean, do as asked, do well in all areas and you will be successful and make it to the line as a first officer at Mesa. I have met a few that were washed out due to bad performance and/or a p!ss poor attitude. You will determine your own fate and you will earn everything that you get at this program, nothing will be "given" to you.

If you want to get to the airlines in the shortest amount of possible time then this program is probably for you. If you buy into the false notion(s) of having to pay those oh so important dues of flight instructing, flying charter, etc, then you may want to look elsewhere. Many of the MAPD grads are currently flying present day at America West, ATA, SWA, Airtran, just to name a few.

Good luck to you, if you need any specifics feel free to pm me and I would be more than happy to answer any additional questions that you may have.

3 5 0

 

[de727ups]

"If you buy into the false notion(s) of having to pay those oh so important dues of flight instructing, flying charter, etc,"

Wow...everyone I've even known did it the false way....even my buddies at Mesa. At the same time, I've never met a PACE or MAPDer at my airline but know a lot of guys who did it the "false way".

Something to think about ref PACE, MAPD, and Mesa is what if USAir tanks. What is Mesa stops hiring or furloughs? There where will you be with your guaranteed interview...

 

[350DRIVER]

"If you buy into the false notion(s) of having to pay those oh so important dues of flight instructing, flying charter, etc,"

Wow...everyone I've even known did it the false way....even my buddies at Mesa. At the same time, I've never met a PACE or MAPDer at my airline but know a lot of guys who did it the "false way".

Something to think about ref PACE, MAPD, and Mesa is what if USAir tanks. What is Mesa stops hiring or furloughs? There where will you be with your guaranteed interview...

Nice spin over there de727ups, I gotta give you props for the way that came across!!. I really cannot say that your response surprised me given your opinions towards this program and set up. What was "meant" by my post was that you don't have to instruct to get to the airlines, ala MAPD and people should realize the other options that are currently available to them. If you are determined and you want to instruct to build "experience" and "knowledge" then by all means instruct and/or fly part 135 single pilot when you have the times, etc. I did it but doing this isn't going to make you much better than a 300 hour MAPD grad who was trained the airline way from day 1. These folks have such a low washout rate that it is practically nonexistent once they get to ground school at Mesa and at other carriers afterwards.

I have flown with quite a few of the grads and would put my family members onboard with them any day of the week. You may have a chip on your shoulder as so many do but that doesn't change the fact of the matter that this program does put a safe, qualified, and competent person in the right seat of a CRJ, ERJ, D-8, or 1900 at low total times. Bottom line is this program works and it is proven to work.

You have never flown with a MAPD grad so I won't continue since it would be pointless...

cheers,

3 5 0

Something to think about ref PACE, MAPD, and Mesa is what if USAir tanks. What is Mesa stops hiring or furloughs? There where will you be with your guaranteed interview...

I guess you don't know Mesa Airlines that well either... Mesa also does flying under America West colors, United colors, and I think possibly one other carrier other than Airways?. If indeed Airways tanks I would only imagine that this won't have too much of any effect on the "guaranteed interview".. JO is one evil SOB but most who understand him realize that plans have been in the making for some time now in preparation for life after Airways should that day ever happen. (which hopefully won't). . . I have heard that PDT and PSA, Airways WO's are going to be "feeding" much more for Airways versus in the past so Mesa is probably already starting to feel this with little if any direct effect.

 

[Ralgha]

Pay should be the farthest thing from your mind at this point so accept it, put in your time, and move on.

And this is why the people who drop out of high school and flip burgers make more money.

 

[mmmdonut]

Go work for Freedom you Bush-lovin dork

 

[350DRIVER]

And this is why the people who drop out of high school and flip burgers make more money.

If you choose this career (aviation) to get rich then you are in for one rude awakening. I don't think I implied that flying for Mesa would ever make one rich, in fact I am pretty sure I said the opposite... Go down to Embry, I would be willing to bet you could probably find many "kids" willing to fly shiny new RJ's for half of what Mesa pays.. Doesn't Gulfstream charge first officers over $19,000 to sit right seat for 250 hours and in return they get paid $8.00/hr?!?!?!. (a tad of sarcasm injected).


3 5 0

 

[minitour]

Go work for Freedom you Bush-lovin dork

Fight nice, kids!

Fo' real though. If I had to do it all over again, knowing what I know now (which I'm sure I'll pick up more as I gain more experience), I would have done the MAPD thing. How can you resist? School, flying, interview...sounds good to me. Sure, Mesa isn't the airline I would want to stay with until retirement (I don't think I could) but as a way to get the 121 time...why not?

I'm sure there are regionals out there that work you just as much and pay you just as little as Mesa.

I also don't buy into the whole "people with less than X hours shouldn't fly pax" argument. If you're trained and proficient and can pass the checkride (you still have to take the 121 ride) why can't you be just as safe and proficient with 50 people in back at FL320?

I'd much rather see someone get an education, get their flight training, and have the possibility of getting a job than someone walking up and paying $x for x hours in the right seat of a B1900...

Those guys/gals are the reason people drop out of school, flip burgers, and make more than pilots...

JMHO

-mini

 

[captdorn81]

Ok, guys well I think I got the picture with you thoughts on the MESA PACE program. I want to thank 350DRIVER you gave me some good insights. I plan on taking a trip down to Farmington to check out the campus and get a first hand view of the program. Oh and 350DRIVEr I understand you when you say " go down to Embry" because I am one of those boys. lol

In response to de727UPS I have allready thought of the possible backfires that can exist, and what you said is true and kinda scares me a bit, but it is an idustry that is risky. Anyways thanks guys. Oh and Vote Bush!!!

 

[bobbysamd]

Mesa pay-for-interview

Mesa has had various pay-for-interview schemes (Notice that I did not write pay-for-training) for years. Mesa had a version of PACE years ago. Its ATP program, which you take your ATP practical with a Mesa check airman, is also pay-for-interview. The ATP program is a real roll-of-the-dice because those who pass the first time get "the interview," while those who fail get the ATP on the recheck, but no interview. I never quite understood the rationale of the ATP program, because, by definition, those who sign up for it already meet Mesa mins (assuming they have the 100 of multi) and could be interviewed by other regionals without having to pay for it.

Just as with P-F-T, there are no guarantees. You could write Mesa a check for PACE, go through the program and "the interview," and not be hired. So, where are you then? Out a ton of money and with a bunch of now-meaningless training in your logbook. You still will not have enough time to qualify for other regionals - notwithstanding the possibility that some astute interviewer might see your PACE time in your logbook and grill you about why you signed up for PACE, why you weren't hired, why you opted to shortcut the system when those who paved the way for you did it through hard work and no shortcuts, etc., etc.

Once again, aviation is a traditional, conservative business. Aviation also has its institutions, and those who try to circumvent both usually wind up on the short end. You'll be far better off in the long run if you take any job that will employ you as a pilot and build time until you qualify properly for the regionals. Didn't I read recently that ExpressJet is hiring at 1300 total (or less) and 300 of multi (or less) and is taking applications? Those are really very low minimums - and are attainable if you're willing to work a little.

Bottom line: It is still only a job. Keep that in mind. One does not prostrate oneself to an employer by buying a job. Especially with pay-for-interview, where there are plenty of other jobs you can get without buying the interview.

 

[Flywrite]

So what exactly does PACE stand for...?


Since it comes from Mesa I'm guessing it means Plan Another Career Eventually...

 

[bobbysamd]

Pace

According to the PACE webpage, Professional Airline Career Enhancement.

I like the above definition better.

 

[350DRIVER]

Ok, guys well I think I got the picture with you thoughts on the MESA PACE program. I want to thank 350DRIVER you gave me some good insights. I plan on taking a trip down to Farmington to check out the campus and get a first hand view of the program. Oh and 350DRIVEr I understand you when you say " go down to Embry" because I am one of those boys. lol

In response to de727UPS I have allready thought of the possible backfires that can exist, and what you said is true and kinda scares me a bit, but it is an idustry that is risky. Anyways thanks guys. Oh and Vote Bush!!!

You are more than welcome, glad to help a fellow pilot out. Do take the trip, if Mesa serves your city then they will write you out a pass to go and take a look. Life is a gamble, keep the odds in your favor and everything else will fall into place with regards to the PACE program. If you are successful you will most certainly indeed get the interview in PHX for a first officer position, bottom line.

http://www.flightcareers.com/pace.htm

Guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group for a 1st Officer position upon successful completion of this program.

They have done this from the start, the "guaranteed" interview is nothing new at all.

Put the hard work in, study, be successful, keep your nose clean and you will get the interview.

The majority of the applicants who were former MAPD students have a near perfect success rate during the interviews in PHX. Mesa takes pride in this fact, ask them about it when you go out there.

A very close friend of mine completed the Mesa program in 97' and his entire class didn't even go and interview in PHX, they simply sent them all to ground school since they knew that they would all be hired due to the fact that they were successful for the 19 months that they spent out in Farmington, he is now a 757 pilot with ATA.

They don't "sugarcoat'' things, they have taken great pride in the placement of successful grads of these programs.

pm me if you have any additional questions.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[zeroline]

Maybee you didnt get the memo

Why would you want to pursue a career with an airline who flies for USAIR and not have any sort of backup. I have friends who work for Mesa and are worried about getting furloughed if USAIR goes under.

I do not disagree with 350 but, Why would you want to pay for a position that might not be there in a year.

The Mesa thing might work out, but before you do the PACE thing THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS GET YOUR CFI EVEN IF YOU NEVER PLAN ON USING IT. It will save your A$$ if everything doesnt work out as you plan. It certainly saved mine after getting hired by ACA with relatively low time and then seeing them furlough.

 

[wheelsup]

Mesa PACE guys have a lower pass rate at the interviews than the ab-initio guys, mostly due to the fact that they can't adapt to the ways and come in with a chip on their shoulder.

Like 350 said, if I could do it all over again I'd go MAPD in a HEARTBEAT. I only wish I had known about the program back when I graduated. The cost is reasonable (in the 40's for your commercial SEL/MEL inst., which is less than almost all MAJOR academies). Yes you could do it cheaper at a 61 FBO, but you won't be flying newish A36's and B58's. And you won't get an interview.

PACE IMO is a waste unless you want to shave 1 year or so off your advancement to the 121 world. Save the cash and earn some dough instructing.

~wheelsup

 

[minitour]

Why would you want to pursue a career with an airline who flies for USAIR and not have any sort of backup. I have friends who work for Mesa and are worried about getting furloughed if USAIR goes under.

While a good point....

they don't just fly for Airways...

Food for thought! (my new favorite phrase)
-mini

 

[zeroline]

Thanks Captain Obvious

While a good point....

they don't just fly for Airways...

Food for thought! (my new favorite phrase)
-mini

Yes...I know this...I understand they fly for USAIR as a NWO and do most of their flying for Ameica West.

If USAIR goes CH7 they WILL Furlough. From the pilots Ive talked to they have estimated from 250-350 will be on the street. I dont think making a move toward a company that could possibly furlough would be wise.

Just some Food for thought.

 

[minitour]

I dont think making a move toward a company that could possibly furlough would be wise.

Just some Food for thought.

So then we should really just stay out of this industry anyway, right? I mean, any company could furlough at...almost any time really. So we better not move towards any airlines out there.


...just gotta roll with the punches...gotta play the cards you're dealt.


I understand where you're coming from and I'm really just playing devil's advocate here, but...

I don't see how getting the training "the 121 way" (which is from what I undersand, the way they train you from day one) and at least going through one interview is bad experience. Wouldn't it just help you down the road when you get an interview with Eagle or ExpressJet?

You've still got to have the experience and the training to work for any airline, wether they're going to furlough you or not. Seems to be working for them so far though.

JMH(inexperienced)O

-mini

*EDIT*
PS
That said, I think in any search for a career, you better have a backup....and a backup for that. You've GOT to plan on your contingencies or you'll be flippin burgers forever waiting for your dream job to open up.

 

[zeroline]

I don't see how getting the training "the 121 way" (which is from what I undersand, the way they train you from day one) and at least going through one interview is bad experience. Wouldn't it just help you down the road when you get an interview with Eagle or ExpressJet?

I agree that it would be good experience. I never disputed that. However, you are paying a good price for that experience. And unless their is a good chance there is a job waiting at the other end, I dont think its worth paying for just plain old experience. There are more cost effective ways to get that. Personally, If were Captdorn, I would wait out the storm with USAIR and see what happens with that before I make a move towards MESA. In the meantime, he/she should get their CFI and if possible do an internship (which is another way to get some great experience and an interview at alot cheaper price.)

Anyways, it was good chatting with you mini. Im starting a four day trip, soI wont be able to reply to anything else. Cya.