Mesa orders $637 million of Bombardier j

[big dog1]

Reuters
UPDATE - Mesa orders $637 million of Bombardier jets
Tuesday January 27, 12:30 pm ET


(Adds details, background, stock price. Figures in U.S. dollars unless noted)
MONTREAL, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Bombardier Inc. (Toronto:BBDb.TO - News) said on Tuesday it won a $637 million order from Mesa Air Group Inc. (NasdaqNM:MESA - News) for 20 of its regional jets.

The order represents half of Phoenix, Arizona-based Mesa's option to buy 40 aircraft from Montreal-based Bombardier. Bombardier said the order is for a mix of its 70-seat CRJ700 and 90-seat CRJ900 series, which has yet to be spelled out.

Rapidly expanding Mesa will use the new planes for contractual commitments with United Airlines and America West Airlines. The company reported a first-quarter profit on Tuesday on stronger passenger count and revenues.

Bombardier's class B shares were up 10 Canadian cents at C$5.79 on the Toronto Stock Exchange (News - Websites) on Tuesday.

($1=$1.31 Canadian)

 

[Otto Coarsen]

The purple blob is getting bigger

An additional 4 Dash-8 Q200s (used) are coming before May as well for the United system out of DEN.. The latest forcasts in hiring are at least 500 more newhires in '04. Current seniority list not including the 100 starting next week, is a little over 1700 pilots between Mesa, Freedom, and Air Midwest.

Last week we held a celebration for the 100th RJ delivery (Although, by the logistics of planning the bash, the current tally is 105) Supposedly no more ERJs because Embraer cannot finance any more new orders...

This is a clip of the 1st Quarter profit:

PHOENIX, Jan. 27 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Mesa Air Group, Inc. (Nasdaq: MESA - News) today announced fiscal first quarter after tax net earnings of $5.9 million on revenues of $187.6 million, or 16 cents per share on a diluted basis as compared to a net loss of $0.6 million, or two cents per share, for the first quarter of 2003 (all amounts reported herein are after tax and all per share amounts reported hereafter are on a diluted basis). Including pro forma adjustments of $2.9 million, fiscal first quarter earnings would have been $8.8 million, or 22 cents per share. Pro forma adjustments include expenses of $3.2 million associated with the attempted merger with Atlantic Coast Airlines and net investment gains of $0.3 million. This compares to pro forma net income of $0.5 million on revenues of $133.1 million, or two cents per share for the first quarter of 2003.

 

[General Lee]

Will the aditional Dash 8s in DEN replace current Skywest E120's there? Also, will the new CRJ9s go to AWA? How many of those will be flying for the AWA side eventually? I saw one of those passing through SLC a couple of weeks ago and couldn't believe how long they were? Too bad the captain only makes $60 or so bucks an hour to fly a plane the size of an MD-80.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

I love the CR9s - gotta be careful on rotation I assume...

 

[Cows Go Moo]

Okay. I'm not about to sing the praises of the Mesa contract on this board, but I at least have to get the word to the streets that the CR9 pay rate at Mesa tops out far higher than 60/hour.

Ten year captain = 75/hour
Fifteen year captain = 87/hour
Twenty year captain = 98/hour.

The guaranteed raises in the contract will put that twenty year figure of 98/hour up to 104/hour by the fall of 2007.

I'm not arguing that the rates are right. I'm just saying they're higher than 60.

 

[bladeusa]

4 year comair 70 seat captain over $72 an hour... 20 less seats.. 6 less years.. for 3 less dollars... and we are underpaid.

 

[mckpickle]

Keep in mind a 5 year f100 f/o at american made about 99/hour. A captain made 159/hour.

 

[superrav]

a lot of talk about pay..just wondoring where the fun in flying went...

 

[shamrock]

Does AWA have any sort of scope to limit the # of 90 seaters Mesa can fly for them?

I'm on the fence with my opinions about scope but I personally think that scope preventing 90 seaters at the regional level is a good thing.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

a lot of talk about pay..just wondoring where the fun in flying went...

Oh it can be a blast sometimes... but it's no fun living at home with Mom and Dad as a "regional" FO like myself to assure financial stability after spending tens of thousands of dollars on school only to paid worse than a flight attendant at a major airline while flying millions and millions and millions of dollars in aircraft and passenger liability.

 

[IFLYASA]

And also, a 10 year Comair 70 Captain is 85.44, which is 20 seats less, same seniority, and "10.44" an hour more.

And even worse, a 10 year Comair 50 Captain is 76.29, which is 40 seats less, same seniority and 1.29 per hour more!!!


Geez

 

[Speedtree]

Somehow it's not as much fun when you don't make enough money to buy groceries, pay the mortgage, and go on vacation even when you get it. Money's not the only thing but it's the main reason I wanted to work for an airline.

If I had really known what fun flying was I would have become a computer nerd and be out flying my supercub right now. No Unions, no Mesa contract, no management bullshiit. That would be real fun.

cheers

 

[nimtz]

Reuters
UPDATE - Mesa orders $637 million of Bombardier jets
Tuesday January 27, 12:30 pm ET


(Adds details, background, stock price. Figures in U.S. dollars unless noted)
MONTREAL, Jan 27 (Reuters) - Bombardier Inc. (Toronto:BBDb.TO - News) said on Tuesday it won a $637 million order from Mesa Air Group Inc. (NasdaqNM:MESA - News) for 20 of its regional jets.

The order represents half of Phoenix, Arizona-based Mesa's option to buy 40 aircraft from Montreal-based Bombardier. Bombardier said the order is for a mix of its 70-seat CRJ700 and 90-seat CRJ900 series, which has yet to be spelled out.

Rapidly expanding Mesa will use the new planes for contractual commitments with United Airlines and America West Airlines. The company reported a first-quarter profit on Tuesday on stronger passenger count and revenues.

Bombardier's class B shares were up 10 Canadian cents at C$5.79 on the Toronto Stock Exchange (News - Websites) on Tuesday.

($1=$1.31 Canadian)

Just remember guys keep undercutting everyone else on those 70-90 seat pay rates so you can get your Turbine PIC and move on the majors!!! Don't worry about FO pay, because all that counts is Turbine PIC. In fact FO pay should stay equal to 50 seat pay, because after all the FO time is pretty much worthless! Remember though you too will upgrade soon if you just sacrifice right now...

 

[crj579]

Yep, no problem landing the CRJ900. It has a max nose-up of 13 degrees and the Mesa San Juan 300hr pilots have no problem landing it.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I wish southwest, jetblue, and airtran would stop undercutting the majors. Southwest is goiing to hire like 500 pilots over the next two years, maybe more. Whats the world coming too. Now I will never get to go to the big six or five what ever it is now.

 

[Capn Butthead]

Dont blame Southwest pay and do your research. Southwest pilots are paid very well and are treated very well. I cant wait to work there. Yes you do work at southwest, but you still see a lot of days off and get to enjoy the job.....plus you make good money doing it........

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

I was being sarcastic, Southwest is my first choice and with all the hiring hopefully be there soon.

 

[SaladShooter]

These numbers do not look like they are bringing down the industry

Year 5 FO
AirTran------------------72.01
SouthWest-------------108.24
JetBlue------------------78.24
AmericaWest----------72.30---prior to new contract

Year 5 CPT
AirTran-----------------120.01 737-700
AirTran-----------------135.61 737-800
SouthWest------------166.53 737
JetBlue-----------------131.34 A320
AmericaWest----------111.23-prior to new contract

Notes

jetBlue-averag hourly rate based on 85 hours a month
SWA-Calculated actual trip pay rates converted to an hourly rate with a conversion factor of 1.139


These are the legacy carriers CPT rates

AMR---------------147.93 737-800
CAL---------------148.55 737-700
DAL---------------243.07 737NG
NWA--------------200.60 A319/320
USAIR-------------143.57 A319-320
UAL----------------136.64 A319/320

The numbers show that the LCC are not that far out of the average. Excluding the high DAL pay of course as they are 2 standard deviations outside of the norm.

 

[crj579]

Some of you are missing the point here. It is because of the LCC's that the Majors are furloughing and cutting labor costs. Undercutting (or competition, if you prefer) has been going on for years. Why do you think Air Tran and Southwest are doing so good right now? Now they are the darlings, but 10 years ago Southwest pilots were not very liked because of their wages and work rules. Now will Mesa grow and eventually raise their wages or will wages from other regionals come down to meet theirs like what is happening with USAir and Southwest. I guess time will tell.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

In 1998 when I left a mid-sized regional to go work for AirTran people thought I was a nutcase!!

"Why the heck do you want to go work for Valujet???!!" they said.

Our class was a real bunch of winners too. We were the scum of the earth (I can admit it). All a bunch of guys (and gals) who, for whatever reason, could not get hired by a major. The concensus was, at the time, that a little DC9 time might make us more competitive.

The airline was a joke at the time. Our manuals were a mishmash of Valujet, Airtran, and Eastern. The airplanes were old British Midland and Turkish Air. Most didnt even have an HSI.

Getting furloughed in Oct 98 was a blessing in disguise ... or so I thought.

Fast forward just 5 years and all of the sudden it has become a career airline??? This is the place that people are falling all over themselves to get a job?

Well, maybe your crystal ball is better than mine but we make the decisions we make based on the best information we had at the time.

I fly with an awful lot of guys NOW (2003) who say, "I cant believe you went to USAir!!! Why would you go THERE?"

Well, come on. That is a great answer in 2003, but would have been a pretty unrealistic answer in 1999 when I had just been furloughed by AirTran (after just completing training), and US Airways was hiring over 100 pilots a MONTH, and getting a new Airbus every WEEK.

Today's "airline of choice" for regional pilots looking to move on are places like AirTran and Jetblue. It will be interesting to see what the NEXT five years bring.

Flying IS fun... but fun doesnt feed the kids.

PS - A reminder. There is no such thing as a flying career... just your next flying job.

 

[Intruder One]

FurloughedAgain.........You are correct the get on the bandwagon pilots want SW,JB and Air Tran and someone will probably ask them in 5yrs...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!......good post

 

[AvroJockey]

Re: Re: Mesa orders $637 million of Bombardier j

Just remember guys keep undercutting everyone else on those 70-90 seat pay rates so you can get your Turbine PIC and move on the majors!!! Don't worry about FO pay, because all that counts is Turbine PIC. In fact FO pay should stay equal to 50 seat pay, because after all the FO time is pretty much worthless! Remember though you too will upgrade soon if you just sacrifice right now...

Yea! Get all that Turbine PIC so you can go to United…. oops! I mean US Airways… oops! I mean American… oops! I mean for any major…that’s left, after we take everyone’s jobs by flying at atrocious pay rates.

I thank god every day for my major brethren who don’t loosen scope to much, to ensure their professional future, and mine.

 

[surplus1]

Avro,

Kool Aid refills are free, have another.

 

[AvroJockey]

Avro,

Kool Aid refills are free, have another.

By gauging your other posts, I thought you were above this maturity level.

I’m sorry you don’t get along with your major airline colleagues. I can assure you there are benefits to this.

 

[shamrock]

It is because of the LCC's that the Majors are furloughing and cutting labor costs.

Or is it because the Major's follow a broken business model in which they only make money when things are booming and immediately start hemorrhaging money when the economy takes a turn?

The Majors are furloughing and cutting labor costs because their business plan doesn't work in a down economy. They are lead by people with guaranteed pensions and off-shore retirement funds that will live a quite comfortable life regardless of what happens to the company, so what do they really care?

Have the LCCs influenced what has happened at the Majors? Sure they have. The Major's are trying to use LCCs as a reason why they need to furlough and get concessions from their workers but they seem to be missing the point. All furloughs and concessions might do is allow a company to hang on until the economy picks up. But at that point they can bury their heads in the sand until the next recession rolls around, so why worry?

My $.02, the Majors are furloughing and cutting labor costs because of poor management and planning, not because of LCCs. If they would pay attention to fixing their underlying problems they wouldn't have to worry so much about AirTran. Southwest, or JetBlue.

 

[-9Capt]

FurloughedAgain,

I agree 110% with every word of your post.

I too was hired by AirTran in '98 (must have been before you beacuse I missed the furlough by a few classes). I never expected this one time rag-tag operation to amount to a hill of sh!t.

I remenber what you said about the training/manuals. Half the manuals said ValuJet, the FSI instructors didn't know the FOM, procedures changed daily and the moral was very low. I can't believe some people (not me) actually paid for this training.

We're the flavor of the week right now but who knows what will happen in 5 years from now.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Good Times...

I'm glad to see that you prospered and hopefully some of the good guys from my class did well and continue make strong careers at AirTran.

Guys like Scroggins, Hagen (the 'Lakers), Choate -- all super guys who, if they're still there are, I assume, excellent B717 captains.

Was a neat place. But, we make the decisions based on the information we have at the time, and when the recall came, going back never even crossed my mind.

Ever see that Seinfeld episode when George finally realised that if he would just do the OPPOSITE of his gut-feeling, he would be successful?

I'm considering employing that technique...

Take care!

 

[Tim47SIP]

Shamrock

My $.02, the Majors are furloughing and cutting labor costs because of poor management and planning, not because of LCCs. If they would pay attention to fixing their underlying problems they wouldn't have to worry so much about AirTran. Southwest, or JetBlue.

You are right about the poor management and planning, but wrong about LCC's. 3-4 years ago, ALPA was blaming the regionals for all of the mainline woe's. We were stealing all of the flying, management was breaking their scope demands with RJ's, and Planebusiness.com was the choice message board. Now the mainlines are strugling even more because of the ill conceived notions of tying managements hand and only allowing a certain number of RJ's or none at all; to preserve the industry. Well, back then, some of us were trying to state that the problems were not the WO regionals, but the LCC's. Of course we were told otherwise! Mainline structures were intact fom the pre regulation days. LCC structures were brand new and cost efficient. Mainline just looked the other way and ignored the new "cancer", in denial (not ment to diss the LCC's). ALPA is still hoping it will all just go away.

Well, they are here to stay, and thus they are direct competition. Mainline has to reorganize and compete, or they go away. Sure, mainline has international routes that the LCC's don't have, but it is just a mater of time before the LCC's are going accross the pond. Management did screw up, but mainline has to somewhat mirror the competitions structure in pay and operational methology to stay afloat. Example: Delta better get their pay structures in line with the industry or they to will be left in the dust. AA, US and United have already experienced the shock of the LCC's the hard way by limiting or scoping out the RJ's and ignoring the real competition. Delta was fortunate to have a more lax scope that allowed the company to somewhat right size the aircraft, and thus is still fairly strong.

So, bottom line is that the LCC's are the real problem (along with inept management). The legacy carriers need to get off the pot and restructure, recost, regroup, and rearm, or their wont be anything left but a shell of their original self.

OK, I am done! Flame away.