Mesa ordered to pay Hawaiian Air $80M

[Tarzan]

you been a d!ck all your life or just today? It was simply a play on words....like when you get your atis over acars reed back all instructions.... "AIR" shuttle..."Air" Heart...whatever...sorry if i disrespected your lost dead great grandma...

I may be a d1ck but you're stupid and you can't fix that.

 

[WSurf]

Come on now, Surf...use those New Bern smarts!

How much fear does and/or did PDT pilots have about Colgan taking their prop flying away? Or getting sold out for new aircraft by PSA?

Mesa took it on the chin to end the alter-ego threat; Chautauqua did the same thing in 2003 when faced with non-union Republic. Look no further than modern-day Trans States/Go Jet as a case study in alter-ego whipsaw.

Mesa's contract sucks and has been used as the bottom-dollar template for management since 2003 no doubt...but there was MUCH more going on there than "quick upgrade! quick upgrade!". Whether you care to admit it or not, I know you know that...

Yea, okay that may be part true. However I remember them all running over themselves about signing the contract and upgrading and moving on. At the time it seemed like a great idea, but when upgrade and movement stops????? Your SOL!

I remember when Mesa bought CCAir and the Mesa pilots braggin about how much more flying they were gonna get out of CLT!! Sorry, I just don't have any respect for that pilot group.

 

[BoilerUP]

I remember when Mesa bought CCAir and the Mesa pilots braggin about how much more flying they were gonna get out of CLT!! Sorry, I just don't have any respect for that pilot group.

I remember CorpEx captains saying CC Air pilots were making SERIOUS coin for 19 seat pilots...well, before JO got involved.

Anybody remember the particulars of their contract?

 

[PCL_128]

Yea, okay that may be part true. However I remember them all running over themselves about signing the contract and upgrading and moving on.

Go back and read some of the threads from that time frame when the contract was ratified. They're all still available on here. I just went back and browsed a few of them, and I can't find anyone bragging about quick upgrade times. I do see a lot of guys talking about scope and a bad industry environment, though. The Mesa contract was the result of needing good scope language and negotiating in a horrible bargaining environment. SJS wasn't the overriding factor.

 

[OB-CPO]

My favorite part of the Judges ruling

Mesa argues that the information which HA provided was of little if any value to it or any other market participant. This argument misses the point. Mesa promised to keep all of HA’s secrets, including any which Mesa regards as unimportant, unreliable, or worthless.

I regard JO's opinion as worthless!

 

[WSurf]

Go back and read some of the threads from that time frame when the contract was ratified. They're all still available on here. I just went back and browsed a few of them, and I can't find anyone bragging about quick upgrade times. I do see a lot of guys talking about scope and a bad industry environment, though. The Mesa contract was the result of needing good scope language and negotiating in a horrible bargaining environment. SJS wasn't the overriding factor.

I am too lazy, would you please post the links to those threads?

 

[Axel]

Lady Astor: "Sir! You are drunk"

Sir Winston Churchill: "Yes, madam, I am drunk. But in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

I may be a d1ck but you're stupid and you can't fix that.

That noise you all just heard was Sir Winston Churchill rolling over in his grave.

 

[808pilot]

i was under the impression that mesa can't appeal the ruling because it was in bankruptcy court....bankruptcy court is a whole other ball game...they operate under a different set of rules....
either way...i'm smilin'....

 

[igneousy2]

Actually - because it was heard in bankruptcy court there is MORE levels of appeal not less. A case heard in bankruptcy courts first appeal is to the US District Court...then Court of Appeals...then US Supreme Court. That being said..there are rules regarding what kind of arguments for appeal will be heard. Generally, an appeal will not be heard on a finding of fact (that's why that section of the ruling is so important) - those facts have already been determined and generally cannot be changed. What you can appeal is the application of the law - based on these findings of fact - the judge mis-applied the law because... In this particular case Mesa seems to be going after some pieces of evidence that were apparently excluded that they feel should have been included. Even if they win the appeal - all that will happen is the court will send the case back to the bankruptcy court and the proceedings will have to be redone with the new evidence taken into consideration.

In any case - I think the most telling fact about this case is that damages are continuing going forward.

$80 million is about 2 years worth of profit for Mesa - there is no way the board allows this to happen - Especially since if Mesa operates on November 1 they will continue to inflict damages on Hawaiian at about a rate of $150,000 a day. Couple that with Aloha (assuming the damages are the same) and that comes to $200 a minute! I think we will see a settlement in the form of a reduceded monetary amount in exchange for an agreement to cease operations in Hawaii. Maybe a 3 way agreement with one amount that settles both cases to be split by HA and AQ.

I will also wager that if Mesa does continue to operate we will see less of these crazy fares which would limit any damages going forward.

I will also wager (what can I say I'm a gambler) that JO is fired/resigns.

In any case this is great news for Hawaii pilots.

 

[eaglefly]

Be patient.........Johnny will take it in the chute by BOTH litigants.

Unfortunately as has been said, he's already a millionaire a hundred times over. Although sad for some, the good part is that this will hopefully force Mesa to shut down once and for all.

EVERYBODY in the airline industry is better off with Mesa ceasing operations as soon as possible.

Mesa has represented perfectly everything that is wrong with this industry and profession since Lorenzo.

The next goal, is to convince gullible and clueless saps that working for flying sweatshops like Mesa can only hurt them in the long run.

 

[labbats]

Be patient.........Johnny will take it in the chute by BOTH litigants.

Unfortunately as has been said, he's already a millionaire a hundred times over. Although sad for some, the good part is that this will hopefully force Mesa to shut down once and for all.

EVERYBODY in the airline industry is better off with Mesa ceasing operations as soon as possible.

Mesa has represented perfectly everything that is wrong with this industry and profession since Lorenzo.

The next goal, is to convince gullible and clueless saps that working for flying sweatshops like Mesa can only hurt them in the long run.

Agree 100%

The fact that Mesa is ALPA is disturbing.

 

[climbhappy]

in 1998, at CC Air, jetstream Cpts were making 65K.
that wouod be close to 100,000 in today's dollars.
yep, JO didn't like it.

as far as him going under, he'll take the whole stinking fleet to china where he has already planned to ride it out.

 

[Mookie]

muck fesa....

 

[igneousy2]

I know JO is like a roach that just won't die...but he does have a board of directors and stockholders are looking for any excuse to sue board members and CEO's of companies that they have lost money on. One can only hope.

Later

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The fact that Mesa is ALPA is disturbing.

Why? If Mesa was non union or in house they'd be even harder to lift up....

Take it to the global perspective.... small carrier pilots that fly jets for poor working conditions and pay will effect us here... in order to bring them up its better that they are part of the union...

Regardless though... when someone needs to be picked up... do you help or do you just walk over them and pretend they don't exist? Sooner or later they will effect you...

 

[topdawg]

Why? If Mesa was non union or in house they'd be even harder to lift up....

Take it to the global perspective.... small carrier pilots that fly jets for poor working conditions and pay will effect us here... in order to bring them up its better that they are part of the union...

Regardless though... when someone needs to be picked up... do you help or do you just walk over them and pretend they don't exist? Sooner or later they will effect you...

They had a choice! Every regional is hiring. They made that choice so fcuk them. I hope mesa folds and they ALL get what they deserve.

 

[T-prop]

They had a choice! Every regional is hiring. They made that choice so fcuk them. I hope mesa folds and they ALL get what they deserve.

There are a lot of people there who were hired at Mesa when no one else was hiring. You know 2001-2004. Wow, people have short memories. There are too many people on this board that are so new that they think that all regionals were always hiring and don't know what a furlough is.

That being said, Mesa still Sucks. Anyone who has been hired there in the past year or plans to go there has made a rather large mistake. Considering they are currently lucky enough to have other options that are/were much better.

 

[pdub20s]

There are a lot of people there who were hired at Mesa when no one else was hiring. You know 2001-2004. Wow, people have short memories. There are too many people on this board that are so new that they think that all regionals were always hiring and don't know what a furlough is.

That being said, Mesa still Sucks. Anyone who has been hired there in the past year or plans to go there has made a rather large mistake. Considering they are currently lucky enough to have other options that are/were much better.

Well put. Im just waiting for the email saying JO has resigned or was fired

 

[IFollowRoads]

We still talk about that stupid training vid Mesa put out, where they tried to convince Mesa pilots that they should be happy about missing the wife's chemotherapy appointment to get junior assigned... dam we laughed at those poor bastards. With this China thing I feel really sorry for them.

 

[icekazanski]

airshuttle to Airheart...

Ha ha

I like "As* Shuttle" as a controller in CLT calls them.

Any hope Blow Jet will bow out after Mesa, that would be great.

April can't come soon enough, Aloha.