Mesa/Freedom will fight Delta

[JoeMerchant]

Not necessarily, from the ASA DCI agreement, 11.E.1.v.:

(v)ASA fails to maintain a completion rate of [***] with respect to the Delta Connection Flights during any [***] months during any consecutive [***] month period, unless Delta fails to maintain a completion rate of [***] with respect to its domestic mainline operations during the same [***] months as ASA’s failures during the same [***] period. For purposes of this Agreement, (a) Delta Connection Flights operated with no revenue passengers or completed over [***] hours late shall be considered as not completed and (b) Disproportionate ATL Cancellations shall be excluded from ASA’s completion rate calculation;

OK...if we have 1 rev. passenger we are better off flying the leg.....Correct?

 

[erikgigem]

I am mostly talking out of my ass here, but I would imagine Delta cares mostly about controllable completion factor over on time percentage.

ASA has always had a mediocre on time percentage, but our completion factor has always been 99%+.

Oh really?? Lets see what ASA is reporting to DOT?

ASA DOT NUMBERS

SEP 07 63.38% ontime 2.42% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 63.64% ontime 2.08% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.66% ontime 0.95% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 64.05% ontime 2.67% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 70.85% ontime 4.88% Cancelled Flights

MESA DOT NUMBERS

SEPT 07 82.8% ontime 1.72% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 78.3% ontime 2.34% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.8% ontime 2.85% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 61.8% ontime 7.06% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 68.8% ontime 6.50% Cancelled Flights

 

[sweptback]

Oh really?? Lets see what ASA is reporting to DOT?

ASA DOT NUMBERS

SEP 07 63.38% ontime 2.42% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 63.64% ontime 2.08% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.66% ontime 0.95% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 64.05% ontime 2.67% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 70.85% ontime 4.88% Cancelled Flights

MESA DOT NUMBERS

SEPT 07 82.8% ontime 1.72% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 78.3% ontime 2.34% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.8% ontime 2.85% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 61.8% ontime 7.06% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 68.8% ontime 6.50% Cancelled Flights

Controllable completion factor is not reported to the government. It's an internal Delta metric. The above numbers reflect flights canceled by Delta to give their own aircraft priority.

 

[erikgigem]

Controllable completion factor is not reported to the government. It's an internal Delta metric. The above numbers reflect flights canceled by Delta to give their own aircraft priority.

Lets see if Mesa lawyers can argue that same point before a judge.

 

[USCtrojan]

Oh really?? Lets see what ASA is reporting to DOT?

ASA DOT NUMBERS

SEP 07 63.38% ontime 2.42% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 63.64% ontime 2.08% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.66% ontime 0.95% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 64.05% ontime 2.67% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 70.85% ontime 4.88% Cancelled Flights

MESA DOT NUMBERS

SEPT 07 82.8% ontime 1.72% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 78.3% ontime 2.34% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.8% ontime 2.85% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 61.8% ontime 7.06% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 68.8% ontime 6.50% Cancelled Flights

ASA operates primarily out of ATL. Those numbers are very different at any other hub OTHER than ATL. Delta's overall performance was about what ASA's was last quarter. ATL is a difficult market to operate in and out of. Delta and anybody who has flown in and out of the ATL understands this.

Trojan

 

[FSIGRAD]

I have seen quite a few airlines look at contracts and say "well we interpret it this way, so that's what were going to do" regardless of how any sane person would read the same section.

 

[Soverytired]

A lawsuit? Definitely a desperation move on Mesa's part.

Suing one's business partners is not a way to drum up additional business. They must REALLY need the cash provided by the Delta flying to try this.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Mesa has their own attorneys on staff and JO is the BOD...Mesa will have to go away for him to go away.

I am OK with messa going away to rid the industry of JO.
PBR

 

[Wesb737fo]

I am OK with messa going away to rid the industry of JO.
PBR

I'm not for pilots losing their job's, but man....Who's in charge of flight ops? THEY SHOULD FIRE THAT GUY. He must be doing a horrible job.

 

[cq43vt17t]

Oh really?? Lets see what ASA is reporting to DOT?

ASA DOT NUMBERS

SEP 07 63.38% ontime 2.42% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 63.64% ontime 2.08% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.66% ontime 0.95% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 64.05% ontime 2.67% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 70.85% ontime 4.88% Cancelled Flights

MESA DOT NUMBERS

SEPT 07 82.8% ontime 1.72% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 78.3% ontime 2.34% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.8% ontime 2.85% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 61.8% ontime 7.06% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 68.8% ontime 6.50% Cancelled Flights

It would be intresting to see these numbers if it only included F8 flying and not YV. ORD has the highest cancellation rate for Mesa.

 

[flylike44]

couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people.

 

[pdub20s]

couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people.

Here! Here!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Here! Here!

I think that was tounge in cheek

 

[711-24-7]

I'm guessing here that you are not an English major.

No, its my fifth language!!!

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Did Mesa lose their performance numbers while their CFO was eliminating more porn on their computers? According to DOT, Mesa reported the following for all their operations:

SEPT 07 82.8% ontime 1.72% Cancelled Flights
OCT 07 78.3% ontime 2.34% Cancelled Flights
NOV 07 76.8% ontime 2.85% Cancelled Flights
DEC 07 61.8% ontime 7.06% Cancelled Flights
JAN 08 68.8% ontime 6.50% Cancelled Flights

No more data beyond January 2008 exists on the DOT website.

here are probably some more specific freedom numbers searched the Mesa numbers and then by airport jfk. This is just for Jan 08

On Time 49.38%

Air Carrier Delay 20.99%

Weather Delay 00.00%

National Aviation System Delay 16.05%

Security Delay00.00%

Aircraft Arriving Late 11.23%

Cancelled 11.11%

Diverted 1.23%

 

[wmuflyguy]

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/OT_Delay/ot_delaycause1.asp?display=data&pn=1


You can look up each airline and their stats for each major airport seperately, along with what kind of delays they were

 

[~~~^~~~]

I'm not cheering for any pilot to lose their job, particularly another ALPA member.

There are a couple of important points to take from this:

1) Apparently Delta cherry picked the contract it thought that it could most easily break, BUT, even with MAG they could not just walk away without litigation.

2) MAG still will operate and probably grow large RJ's.

3) Alter ego whipsaw is an ugly practice all the way around. The employees suffer, even mainline suffers as their contracts lock them in to operations that are irrational. Much of MAG's growth was used to whip saw ASA and Comair. Now Delta has a changing market and lacks the flexibility to respond appropriately.

4) I have not seen the contracts and may be talking out of school, but from what I'm hearing MAG may have a pretty good case against DAL. After all they certainly relied on Delta's contractual promises in purchasing millions, of not billions of dollars worth of jets.

I would just like to see Delta and ALPA start acting rationally when it comes to regional jet operators. There should have never been a MAG to begin with.

 

[saabservant]

"There should have never been a MAG to begin with."

Truest words this month! ALPA and mainlines are equally culpable...

 

[go!ng for broke]

What ever happens in court this is bad for Mesa and That's a "GOOD THING"

 

[Hovernut]

.......

4) I have not seen the contracts and may be talking out of school, but from what I'm hearing MAG may have a pretty good case against DAL. After all they certainly relied on Delta's contractual promises in purchasing millions, of not billions of dollars worth of jets.

I would just like to see Delta and ALPA start acting rationally when it comes to regional jet operators. There should have never been a MAG to begin with.

I believe the MAG ERJs came from the discontinued USAir service and elsewhere. They cheaped-out anyway and got 'em w/o stairs. I also believe the 900s are owned &/or leased by DL. Rumor running around the crewroom here this morning is DL is asking us how fast we can ramp-up to man those, too. So, that may just be the other shoe to drop on the Freedom contract.

 

[79%N1]

Whose crew room?

 

[regionaltard]

Mesa/Freedom will fight Delta

In related news, Hillary Clinton vowed to keep fighting right down to the last lie, and a large fish just caught said that it would flop around in the bottom of the boat for a while...

I wouldn't wish unemployment on the majority of those folks, but the writing is definitely on the wall. The industry will certainly be better off without Mesa constantly answering the question: "How low can you go?"

 

[IronCityBlue]

4) I have not seen the contracts and may be talking out of school, but from what I'm hearing MAG may have a pretty good case against DAL. After all they certainly relied on Delta's contractual promises in purchasing millions, of not billions of dollars worth of jets.

I thought the 900's at MAG for Delta were already on the Delta certificate (many of DCI's 900's are) so MAG was never out, nor would ever be out, money for planes someone bought and pay for. Even if its some kind of lease back arrangement, I doubt Delta is trying to stick MAG with those particular airframes, since they desperately want them operated somewhere. Hopfuly one day on the mainline, but that's besides the point.

 

[Seaknight1]

I thought the 900's at MAG for Delta were already on the Delta certificate (many of DCI's 900's are) so MAG was never out, nor would ever be out, money for planes someone bought and pay for. Even if its some kind of lease back arrangement, I doubt Delta is trying to stick MAG with those particular airframes, since they desperately want them operated somewhere. Hopfuly one day on the mainline, but that's besides the point.

Freedom's CRJ-900's are on Delta's certificate. Pinnacle per the RFP had to purchase their own -900's. Our (Comair) -900's are on our certificate and SkyWest has theirs on their certificate. All Freedom's ERJ's were on the Mesa certificate prior to Freedom 2's startup and were operating for USAirways Express and United Express.

 

[PA31Driver]

Plus, who really cares about this one.....it is Freedom. I still carry my list of original freedom scum.....

Well, in that case, you need to start checking Virgin America jumpseaters against that list because a bunch of them went over there.

 

[poorpilot83]

ASA operates primarily out of ATL. Those numbers are very different at any other hub OTHER than ATL. Delta's overall performance was about what ASA's was last quarter. ATL is a difficult market to operate in and out of. Delta and anybody who has flown in and out of the ATL understands this.

Trojan

Yea because JFK is a walk in the park!

 

[brokedash]

If JO had a buyer with cash in hand for all 35 birds or if can hoodwink DL out of 35mil, he'll call it a day with the DL contract.

 

[WWEfan]

All Mesa flying are belong to ASA!

 

[pdub20s]

All Mesa flying are belong to ASA!

Thats funny...cuz I could have swor i just brought in a Freedom jet into CVG painted in Delta colors

 

[wmuflyguy]

Thats funny...cuz I could have swor i just brought in a Freedom jet into CVG painted in Delta colors

How late were you?