Mesa and Delta...It's official

[surplus1]

Surplus thanks for helping me understand what RJDC is all about.UBA757

Thank you. If I've been helpful to you I'm greatful for the opportunity. Keep in mind that the opinions I have expressed are no more than my own. I invite you to seek input from other sources. I claim no monopoly on the "right" answers.

The only thing I ask is that you look at the history of the facts with objectivity and then make your own decision once you are fully informed. I hope you will see the legitimacy of the effort by the RJDC and the reason for the litigation Our little airline does have a history that is worth knowing. So does the dispute that has given rise to this lawsuit.

FDJ2 is a smart fellow. Regretably, he doesn't seem willing to read past his own preconceptions. He didn't really want answers, he wanted an opportunity to cherry pick the reply, tailor parts of it to his preconceptions and procliam "see, I told you so."

Like much of ALPA's leadership, he doesn't listen very well. He doesn't talk with you, he talks to you or past you. Productive dialogue seldom takes place in such and environment. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."

Over the years I've become quite familiar with the MO of the ALPA leadership and that part of the constituency that echoes FDJ2 and the General. They don't really want answers or dialogue, they just want their way and fully embrace the concept that the end justifies the means, provided of course that the end is in their favor.

I don't think that way. I do not want any Comair pilot to take from any Delta pilot, or any pilot from any airline. However, I will not sit idly by and permit the labor union that I pay to represent my interests to rape my pilot group or any other due to a caste system that is the product of its own creation. I happen to think that is both morally and legally wrong, and will fight to prove it in a proper court of law.

Unity of purpose cannot be achieved by policies that permit the powerful majority to trample on the rights of the less powerful minority. We also cannot acheive it by subservience one to another.

There is nothing wrong with ALPA as an institution. There is everything wrong with its current administration and the policies of apartheid they choose to adopt and promote. When the leadership of my union responds to my legitimate concerns by telling me "sometimes you have to eat a sh_t sandwich", I lose all respect for them. Nope, I don't have to eat such a sandwich and neither does any Comair pilot.

Regards, and welcome to Comair, "The Best Little Airline in America."

 

[PCL_128]

Surplus, it isn't that we don't listen to you. I personally have read every single word you've posted on this thread. I simply don't agree with your opinions. It doesn't mean that I don't listen to your opinions, I just don't agree. Don't assume that just because someone comes to different conclusions than you that they are not listening.

 

[scarlet]

I don't even read that dam@ RJDC thing anymore---it is a beaten horse and it is all you guys OPINION................

AND THE COURTS dont CARE(I know it is hard to believe because you all know everything about the lawsuit and aviation) WHAT your OPINIONS ARE so

SHUT UP about RJDC............THat is from everyone else in the post too,, they are tired of hearing it....

GO tell DELTA(Moma) to come up with a business plan--they already slapped the DL pilots in the face once,,,paycut and then cut fares...that was smart!!!!

 

[surplus1]

Surplus, it isn't that we don't listen to you. I personally have read every single word you've posted on this thread. I simply don't agree with your opinions. It doesn't mean that I don't listen to your opinions, I just don't agree. Don't assume that just because someone comes to different conclusions than you that they are not listening.

That's fair enough PCL_128, you have every right to disagree if you wish and I respect that right. I can only hope that the courts will agree with my point of view and not with yours.

In the final analysis that is why we have courts of law, because people disagree.

 

[surplus1]

I don't even read that dam@ RJDC thing anymore---it is a beaten horse and it is all you guys OPINION................

AND THE COURTS dont CARE(I know it is hard to believe because you all know everything about the lawsuit and aviation) WHAT your OPINIONS ARE so

SHUT UP about RJDC............THat is from everyone else in the post too,, they are tired of hearing it....

GO tell DELTA(Moma) to come up with a business plan--they already slapped the DL pilots in the face once,,,paycut and then cut fares...that was smart!!!!

Scarlet,

I'm going to make some assumptions: 1) You own a computer or you have access to one; 2) You know how to find this forum; 3) You knew how to find this thread; 3) You are aware of its content and subject matter, 4) You know how to operate your mouse.

Recommendation: The next time you come to flightinfo.com, avoid selecting this thread. That way you will never have to read anything in it that you do not want to. Meanwhile, permit those who wish to beat the horse as often as they choose.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[General Lee]

I agree with that General. Now YOU try to remember that your role in life is not to replace us. Don't confuse yourself with "Mama Delta" (one of your prime tendencies), you're just a Delta pilot, not the CEO.

That seems to be the whole problem with folks like you. You think you own the airline. I got news for ya, you don't. You just work there. Capiche?

Yo Comprendo. But, our VP of flight Ops (and the Czar of DCI) stated that DCI would NOT get 90 or 100 seaters (during that infamous meeting 3 months ago), and he is incharge. If we ever decided to buy that size aircraft, I am sure they would offer it to Dalpa first to negotiate, and given the latest round of cuts and cutbacks, I think Dalpa would take it, even at lower rates. Look at Jetblue and the E190---a 12 year Capt will make $89 an hour. That is what YOU AND I ARE COMPETING WITH THESE DAYS----rates from a new airline with NO UNION. THAT IS OUR NEW COMPETITION, AND IT WILL AFFECT OUR RATES---YOURS AND MINE. QUIT BLAMING ALPA AND LOOK AROUND AND SEE WHAT REALLY IS AFFECTING OUR PAY. Capiche? A 12 year Captain flying a 100 seat aircraft shouldn't be paid $89 an hour.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

General : You provide lift for Delta, I provide lift for Delta. There are guys on the street who used to provide lift for Delta. The difference is an arbitrary determination by our union.

Jet Blue pilots did the same thing your MEC has done. Get over it. The current Jet Blue guys negotiated cheap rates on airplanes they would not have to fly. Your MEC sent entire fleet types out to bid on code share. It seems like everyone is willing to give away flying on airplanes they don't think they will ever have to fly. At least Jet Blue did not let the codeshare cat out of the bag like your MEC did.

I'm starting to look forward to the day when Delta ceases operations. Delta has become the crappy underside of this industry thanks to employees that are are treated like the enemy by both management and other employee groups.

~~~^~~~

 

[surplus1]

General,

You have a provision in your PWA that prevents us from operating a 90-seat airplane for Delta. Therfore, we can't operate it unless you give up that part of your contract. I have no problem whatever with that. We aren't trying to make you give that up.

You are correct, we can't compete with JetBlue on the pay rates. You can't either. On top of that your present infrastructure helps to make you less competitive. That is not your fault.

Let us not forget however, it was ALPA that first low-balled the EMB170 product, not JB. It was not regional pilots that did it, it was mainline pilots at USAirways. Can you name anyone that has lower rates for that equipment than MDA? Remember, the matched the Eagle contract, but they gave up 100% of their longevity, thus putting them all at 1st year pay. You can bet that the JBlue decision was based on that. As far as I know, there are no 1st yr capt's flying 70-seat jets at any regional carrier.

If Delta pilots want to give up their longevity to get a 90-seat airplane, go for it. The $89 JB pay that you quote for the EMB-190 applies to a 12 yr. Capt. Don't forget that JB hasn't even existed for 6 years so there will be no one at that pay rate. Virtually all of their EMB-190 capts can be expected to be pretty close to 1st year pay, which is $71 at present. That's not a pretty picture. Not for you, not for us, not for anyone.

As far as I know, only Mesa has lower pay for a 12 yr Capt in the CRJ-900 = $82. Also courtesy of ALPA. I do not envy your efforts.

 

[PCL_128]

The current Jet Blue guys negotiated cheap rates on airplanes they would not have to fly.

Just to clarify, the Jet Blue pilots did not "negotiate" anything on the new aircraft. Management imposed those crappy rates on the pilots. The pilots at Jet Blue are non-union and as such have no say whatsoever in the new rates.

 

[General Lee]

General : You provide lift for Delta, I provide lift for Delta. There are guys on the street who used to provide lift for Delta. The difference is an arbitrary determination by our union.

Jet Blue pilots did the same thing your MEC has done. Get over it. The current Jet Blue guys negotiated cheap rates on airplanes they would not have to fly. Your MEC sent entire fleet types out to bid on code share. It seems like everyone is willing to give away flying on airplanes they don't think they will ever have to fly. At least Jet Blue did not let the codeshare cat out of the bag like your MEC did.

I'm starting to look forward to the day when Delta ceases operations. Delta has become the crappy underside of this industry thanks to employees that are are treated like the enemy by both management and other employee groups.

~~~^~~~

Delta may cease to exist, after a merger with NW or CAL. What will happen to ASA and Comair? Answer: Aeromexico Express based in Tampico. Or, you might get absorbed by Mesa. Take a pick. And, which other employees at DL treat us bad? We all know at mainline and Song that we are just along for the ride. I personally think some of our older stews should hang it up, but I don't tell them that! I still want free first class food.

Jetblue guys negotiated what? Are you sure about that?



Bye Bye--General Lee