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Mesa Air May Launch 737 Ops at PIT

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767-300ER

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Posts
156
Mesa Air 737 unit may launch at PIT
Wage system meeting some resistance from pilots

Tuesday, May 25, 2004

By Dan Fitzpatrick and Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Preparing for life after US Airways, Phoenix commuter carrier Mesa Air is considering the launch of a new low-cost airline that would have a hub at Pittsburgh International Airport and start by flying up to 10 Boeing 737 jets.

But the proposal, a contingency designed to fill in any gaps left by a defunct US Airways, is meeting some resistance from Mesa's pilots, who do not like the wage system being proposed by Mesa Chief Executive Officer Jonathan Ornstein.

Mesa is asking its captains, who fly only smaller regional jets and turboprops, to steer the larger 737s at rates 20 percent higher than what they make currently at Mesa, which picks up US Airways' passengers in smaller cities under a code-sharing arrangement with the Arlington, Va.-based carrier. Ornstein also is asking first officers to fly the 737s at rates similar to those of their other colleagues at Mesa.

In a letter sent to Ornstein Friday, leaders of Mesa's pilots union asked Ornstein to submit his proposal formally to the union's negotiating committee, which Ornstein has not done. In a letter to its members the same day, the union leaders argued that the 737 pay rates were "out of line" with industry averages and said they had decided not to act on Mesa's offer "due to its unofficial nature."

Ornstein declined comment about the specifics of the proposal or the pilots' response. But, he added, "I do think there continues to be opportunities to serve markets in Pittsburgh with a low-cost airline, but that vision needs to be shared by all of our constituencies in order for us to move forward."

If the pilots do not agree to the new operation, which would still be a part of Mesa while perhaps operating under a different name, Ornstein could still partner with another airline on the 737 venture or another start-up carrier.

Ultimately, the size and focus of Mesa's new operation depend on the health of US Airways.

The fact that Mesa is considering the 737 plan at all has a lot to do with its reliance on Pittsburgh's dominant carrier, which accounts for 40 percent to 45 percent of Mesa's revenue. Mesa, currently profitable, is taking a defensive stance to protect itself in case US Airways collapses, and it has raised more than $200 million over the last 18 months.

"We continue to review contingency plans based on any potential outcome at US Airways," Ornstein said.

Much could be decided this summer.

If US Airways is not able to win $800 million in concessions from its unions by September, it may have to sell off assets or file for bankruptcy again.

In that case, Mesa would pursue its new low-cost 737 airline-within-an-airline more aggressively.

But even if US Airways survives and follows through on its plan to strip Pittsburgh of its hub status, Mesa could still fill the local void with new 737s since Pittsburgh International is likely to lose flights and nonstop destinations as US Airways concentrates more on East Coast flying.

Since 9/11, US Airways has cut 170 daily flights in Pittsburgh and has been cutting nonstop destinations -- the most recent was Columbia, S.C., in March. Other nonstop destinations dropped since last fall include Bangor, Maine; Lansing, Mich; and Orange County, Calif. Come June 6, US Airways will be eliminating another nonstop flight to Trenton, N.J.

Allegheny County Airport Authority officials are bracing for more. As US Airways phases out hub operations and makes Pittsburgh a "focus city," they expect daily flights could drop from 379 to as low as 102, based on operations at other US Airways focus cities, such as Boston, New York and Washington, D.C.

The news is not all bad for local US Airways fliers.

The carrier is planning to restore more than 50 Saturday evening flights at Pittsburgh International on June 12, although only temporarily. The airline intends to drop the flights again Aug. 21, near the end of the busy summer travel season.

US Airways cut the flights, which depart between 8 p.m. and 10 p.m., in January because of low demand. However, it is expecting traffic to increase enough with summer travel to bring them back for a short time, spokesman David Castelveter said.
 
JO offered a $13 hour override for CA's and nothing for FO's currently flying jet equipment.

This scumbag is dangerous.

What will be worse is if the Mesa pilots help him get away with it.

If I were AWA or United management, I would consider 737 operations a conflict of interest and fight him tooth and nail on this one.

$73/hour for a 737 CA is pathetic.
 
767-300ER said:


But the proposal, a contingency designed to fill in any gaps left by a defunct US Airways, is meeting some resistance from Mesa's pilots, who do not like the wage system being proposed by Mesa Chief Executive Officer Jonathan Ornstein.



Some resistance? Choice words.....


If indeed there WAS an actual proposal, I believe resistance would be quite an understatement.

Not mentioned is that "unofficially" the offer also consisted of a 2 year extension to our current abysmal contract.

JO won't pay anything close to industry standard, and we won't (let's hope) bite.. Mesa won't fly 737s.... Period.....
 
Word on the street is that our NC told the Company we want industry average for narrowbodies.

Now some Freedom-A-type is claiming that because of our only counter offer to the initial joke, the Company is taking their toys elsewhere. Sounds familiar. Screw the 737s. I want outta here.
 
767-300ER said:

In that case, Mesa would pursue its new low-cost 737 airline-within-an-airline more aggressively.

I thought he couldn't do this anymore with Mesa's new industry-leading scope...
 
Here we go again. The race to the bottom is in full swing.

There's too many pilots out there that think, "Hey, how cool will it be to fly a 737. And a pay raise to boot. I'm in!!"

I feel for folks out there that hope to be a pilot for a "major airline" someday. Those days are over, IMO.
:mad:
 
flyguppy said:
Here we go again. The race to the bottom is in full swing.

There's too many pilots out there that think, "Hey, how cool will it be to fly a 737. And a pay raise to boot. I'm in!!"

I feel for folks out there that hope to be a pilot for a "major airline" someday. Those days are over, IMO.
:mad:

I used to work at Atlas Air before the pilots were union. At the time the pilots were topping out around 115000 a year to fly a 747.

I asked the late Michael Chowdry (founder of Atlas), why he didn't just raise the rates if he really wanted to avoid a union. His reply; "Pilots are their own worst enemy. Why should I pay some pilot $150000-200000 a year when there is a line of eager pilots that would take $100000 a year to fly a 747?"

Not that I agree with him on the pay, but I just wanted to show that it doesn't just happen at the regional level of airline flying.
 
I am sure jo will use his rjs to feed his 737. Wait he would not do that, it does not make good business sense. That is what he told ACA shareholders. Funny how he wants to try something that he said would never work. Does this guy even know how to tell the truth or treat people right.
 
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Given the current race to the bottom of airline pilot pay, I am still surprised that many pilots from across the industry are still NOT supportive of Delta pilots and their current pay struggle - the only pilots who are attempting to "maintain the salary bar"....

I would not want to be a 737 pilot hired into the new Mesa operation - you think the Freedumb pilots were vilified - anyone who joins the Mesa 737 operation from the outside better look at it as a LONG-TERM CAREER CHOICE. Help, our salaries are sinking....
 
If you have any idea of how the DAL pilots can maintain what they have without DAL going under, I would love to hear it. We can't even tack on a few bucks to cover fuel in this industry. If you can convince the flying public to pay a large premium to fly Delta, then maybe it can work out. Otherwise, they will have to become competitve simply to survive.
 
Mugs,

That's funny, Grinstein isn't taking a dime from any of the other 20,000 non-union employees at Delta. (other than higher health premiums---which will also occur with the pilots eventually) If we were hurting that bad, don't you think he would take 10% from them? Not even 10%? I still think we will eventually give them a nice chunk---but if things were really that bad---everyone (including us taking the lion's share) would be "giving."

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
Re: Re: Mesa Air May Launch 737 Ops at PIT

Freight Dog said:
I thought he couldn't do this anymore with Mesa's new industry-leading scope...

He can't. At least in theory. The way our scope reads is that any present or future flying perfomed by Air Midwest, Mesa, CC Air, Freedom, and any other carrier owned, operated, or controlled by Mesa Air Group must be flown with the people on our seniority list. Another part of our scope language says essentially that Mesa Air Group shall not create or acquire an alter ego to avoid the terms and conditions of our contract.

I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about what can and cannot happen, but this is what we sacrificed our last contract for. It ought to be good for something.
 
Re: Re: Re: Mesa Air May Launch 737 Ops at PIT

Cows Go Moo said:
I'm sure there will be a lot of talk about what can and cannot happen, but this is what we sacrificed our last contract for. It ought to be good for something.


Let's hope so. I also hope your MEC doesn't settle for peanut wage 737 flying either.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Mesa Air May Launch 737 Ops at PIT

Freight Dog said:
Let's hope so. I also hope your MEC doesn't settle for peanut wage 737 flying either.

Me too. There's already a minor revolt going on at the LEC level of the union. If our negotiators were to accept something ridiculously low, there very well might be an all out recall of everybody. Surgery with an ax instead of a scalpel.
 
Perhaps Andy Hughes will pay attention this time...

You guys are really dealing with Lorenzo of the 21st century. I hope your MEC and your NC realize that. Gotta play hardball with this guy NOW.. not years later.
 
From rubberducky, "Pilots are their own worst enemy. Why should I pay some pilot $150000-200000 a year when there is a line of eager pilots that would take $100000 a year to fly a 747?"

Yep. We are going to see a bunch of new carriers that only fly one type of aircraft - all new, domestic only (Canada and Mexico = still pretty much domestic) no retirees to pay for, with employees willing to work harder for less money and benefits. The employees are going to say things like "at least I've got a job I love at a great company and job security." Wait, we've already got all of the above. What I meant to say is the same thing as above with the employees working for even less - much less - just watch. Say hello to the ELLCC (Even Lower Low Cost Carrier). Enjoy.
 
I truly belive that the mesa pilots will not stand for being "had" ever again. We have become more and more upset as time goes by. We will and are going to stand up. We never wanted the 737's mgmt does. So they cant threaten us with the bs of taking them away. We will get industry avg. for those 737's.
 
But if USAirways goes under, watch how many 737-rated pilots will be available to fly the airplanes. Desparation causes people to do crazy things.... I hope it doesn't happen.
 
Today's LCCs will have tomorrow's "high" cost structure compared to the next generation of start ups. Like Gordon Bethune recently said, to compete all you have to do is fire everyone every five years and start over. The pilot mills of Florida and Arizona will pump out an endless flow of young eager pilots to keep the cycle going.
 
Mugs said:
Today's LCCs will have tomorrow's "high" cost structure compared to the next generation of start ups. Like Gordon Bethune recently said, to compete all you have to do is fire everyone every five years and start over. The pilot mills of Florida and Arizona will pump out an endless flow of young eager pilots to keep the cycle going.

Ain't dat da troof!!
 

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