Merit

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Lumpy, does your mother know you are spending too much time on the computer and not doing your homework?

"Bad representation needs to either be fixed or removed. That goes with anything in life, “Fix it or replace it”.
That’s all that is happening here.

So Lumpy, I have to ask you a question. If we had a manager that called 140 pilots a "cancer", don't you think it's time for that manager to go?

 

[Bjtdrvr]

KR own words from his letter about Citation Air:

As some of you know, I have a law degree. Despite what you think, the study of law is not about memorizing laws nor is it about knowing how laws are implemented and enforced. The study of law is focused on understanding that most legal situations contain some “gray area” and it is about understanding how to make an argument to reinforce your “shade of gray”. What you learn is not only that there are two sides to every argument but that no outcome is ever certain. You are educated to weigh the risks of each position and to make practical decisions based on these risks. There are very few absolutes in law and most questions that you ask a lawyer will be answered with alternative answers. This is the nature of the law and this lack of certainty is why most cases are settled before ever going to trial.

It all is grey area to him. He chooses his verbiage carefully so you the hearer will interpret it the way you want things to go. In this instance he just flat out said let the Citation Air pilots sue me if they want to.

 

[Lumpsum]

Lumpy, does your mother know you are spending too much time on the computer and not doing your homework?

"Bad representation needs to either be fixed or removed. That goes with anything in life, “Fix it or replace it”.
That’s all that is happening here.

So Lumpy, I have to ask you a question. If we had a manager that called 140 pilots a "cancer", don't you think it's time for that manager to go?

Glory, have you looked at your post total recently? Who's spending too much time on their computer? Pot vs Kettle - Which one is blacker?

 

[jonjuan]

Ironically, it seems the company will go out of business more quickly with a decert vote. Who would go there?

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Ironically, it seems the company will go out of business more quickly with a decert vote. Who would go there?

Explain your logic?

 

[MOMOMOJO]

Ironically, it seems the company will go out of business more quickly with a decert vote. Who would go there?

Explain your logic?

No. Worked here without a contract and know that scenario is not in the best interest of the average pilot. I have my apps in just in case.

It's not my post but I think most of us understand what he means.

It will be interesting to see how many of the extreme volume of PRIA requests that keep piling up lead to actual resignations. Many of them are reported to be from people who are just setting up a fall back plan. It's not that they really want to leave but they know they will either be forced out or simply can't sustain their career here with out a union. Who really wants to stay and do 14/10 days or 8/6 rotations for the rest of their life in a "like it or leave" scenario regardless of the money. Most are realize it will only take a year or two at a place like SWA or even Spirit to get back to where they are financially.

If the decert crowd wins plan on mass exodus. Interestingly, even if the union prevails this decert campaign has opened people's eyes up to the fact with this management team in place and their constant obstruction, they still might want to leave. So either way this decert campaign and it's tone coupled with their extreme obstruction over the past 3 years has been management's worst nightmare but their too stubborn to see it.

Maybe that's why these letters from Rick and posts from Lumpsum seem so desperate. They think the huge volume of PRIA means the vote is tight so their going after votes. What they refuse to realize is the PRIA requests mean they've already lost no matter what happens.

Beyond that, the company itself is at stake depending on the type of CPR they use to resuscitate it. Lumpsum claims there will be a 20% raise on June 1 if we decertify. He also claims he's not management so how can he be so sure?

But even if they raised pay high enough to attract a bevy of candidates they can't train them fast enough if there's a mass exodus.
Remember inexperienced, swiftly trained pilots pencil whipped through checkrides like in the old days of Options will also start happening. As will slacking maintenance.

One fatal accident will also kill this company mostly because it will have been so predictable.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

It's not my post but I think most of us understand what he means.

It will be interesting to see how many of the extreme volume of PRIA requests that keep piling up lead to actual resignations. Many of them are reported to be from people who are just setting up a fall back plan. It's not that they really want to leave but they know they will either be forced out or simply can't sustain their career here with out a union. Who really wants to stay and do 14/10 days or 8/6 rotations for the rest of their life in a "like it or leave" scenario regardless of the money. Most are realize it will only take a year or two at a place like SWA or even Spirit to get back to where they are financially.

If the decert crowd wins plan on mass exodus. Interestingly, even if the union prevails this decert campaign has opened people's eyes up to the fact with this management team in place and their constant obstruction, they still might want to leave. So either way this decert campaign and it's tone coupled with their extreme obstruction over the past 3 years has been management's worst nightmare but their too stubborn to see it.

Maybe that's why these letters from Rick and posts from Lumpsum seem so desperate. They think the huge volume of PRIA means the vote is tight so their going after votes. What they refuse to realize is the PRIA requests mean they've already lost no matter what happens.

Beyond that, the company itself is at stake depending on the type of CPR they use to resuscitate it. Lumpsum claims there will be a 20% raise on June 1 if we decertify. He also claims he's not management so how can he be so sure?

But even if they raised pay high enough to attract a bevy of candidates they can't train them fast enough if there's a mass exodus.
Remember inexperienced, swiftly trained pilots pencil whipped through checkrides like in the old days of Options will also start happening. As will slacking maintenance.

One fatal accident will also kill this company mostly because it will have been so predictable.

The big questions are:

1) Are the PRIA requests due to the company’s actions or the Union drama, or both? Before the acquisition, Flexjet was not hemorrhaging pilots like now.
2) What will be the reality after the vote is tallied?

Both are anyone’s guess.

 

[MOMOMOJO]

The big questions are:

1) Are the PRIA requests due to the company’s actions or the Union drama, or both? Before the acquisition, Flexjet was not hemorrhaging pilots like now.
2) What will be the reality after the vote is tallied?

Both are anyone’s guess.

I personally know many many many of them are Union leaning pilots who started job hunting the day after the decert cards were turned into the NMB. The timeline and upsurge seem to evidentiarily support it as fact.

They are investigating their options knowing working for this management team as at will employees is not a career they want to experience. I think the majority will stay if the union stays (not all) but conversely the majority will pull the trigger of the decert "wins".

You're right the company only started hemorrhaging pilots after the accquistion. Another uptick started after months,of obstruction pilots were losing hope. An even bigger upsurge coincided with the decert drive. And now with the vote we are seeing the biggest potential surge yet with the reality of the decert vote.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out who pilots are upset with or have lost confidence in. Hint: it ain't the Union.

But folks like RH and Lumpsum are too stubborn to see what's staring us all in the face.

 

[DirtyBeech]

The big questions are:

1) Are the PRIA requests due to the company’s actions or the Union drama, or both? Before the acquisition, Flexjet was not hemorrhaging pilots like now.
2) What will be the reality after the vote is tallied?

Both are anyone’s guess.

Literally everyone I’ve talked to who has left did so for a combination of 2 reasons:

1. Flexjet isn’t a shadow of its former self after essentially becoming the husk surrounding the rotten Flight Options core.

2. The airlines are hiring, and compensation as well as QOL are usually matched by even the ULCC’s within the first 2-3 years of employment. That’s also a function of the first point.

No one is running from the Teamsters to another unionized shop. And they’re all unionized. In the end they all take their dues, none are perfect, all will have vocal detractors and all will disappoint in some ways. But they’re all needed in this industry. For every benevolent Bombardier management group there’s 10 Ricci/Lorenzo like organizations trying to run this profession into the ground.

Running from the IBT to ALPA/SWAPA/APA is akin to jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The major 121 QOL and compensation are measurably better, but you’re going to be disappointed in the extreme if you think you’ll head to work every day and not hear about union actions constantly from coworkers and official communications. The days and venues to just go to work, stick your head in the sand and not even know much about your segment of the indudstry are few and far between.

 

[EnFuego]

DirtyBeech, you nailed it! People are leaving because they are fed up with management! NOT the Union.