Merging of Senority Lists at ASA/Skywest?

[~~~^~~~]

The amount of bad info on this thread is staggering......

You are correct that the ALPA vote does not trigger one list. An ALPA vote does allow SkyWest pilots to work with others in the industry to avoid whipsaw and aircraft transfer gamesmanship that undermines the stability of our carriers.

Aside from that, it depends on what the pilots want. The ASA and Comair guys thought they could whipsaw management and decided to remain separate. Then the Comair guys purposely underbid the ASA pilots to try to secure growth and the alliance fell apart.

After fighting for One List for years, I too have reached the conclusion ALPA does not have the ability to force the issue right now. They could try, but the NMB would not go along and Teamsters would probably team up with management to fight ALPA like they did at GoJets.

 

[dbchandler1]

really?

The amount of bad info on this thread is staggering......
SkyWest pilots voting for or against ALPA will not trigger or prevent an integration. ALPA could press for a single carrier petition.

If they can why haven't they already?

 

[Tarzan]

Neither one of them is safe if the "two Bobs" show up.

Now that was funny today at the meeting.

 

[JetMonkey]

amcnd--you're right, US Air did get hosed even though they were both ALPA. Before the verdict was in, an America West jumpseater told me that the two groups were fighting it out in court but couldn't come to an agreement so it was left to a judge to decide and whatever the judge came up with was final.

Are you related to an eastie? I'm not sure what you mean by "hosed". The ALPA merger policy was followed to a tee. Everyone remained pretty much in the same posistion as they were before the merger.

 

[amcnd]

You ever meet Brad Holt? I'd bet that as far as he's concerned the DOH for all ASA pilots is 9/2005.

SkyWest will always take care of SkyWest. They dont need anyone on at the table. "When they are serving the dinner".

 

[PCL_128]

The amount of bad info on this thread is staggering......

Ain't that the truth.

1. JA has absolutely no say in how a seniority merger would take place, whether Skywest pilots are represented by ALPA or not. Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions apply, and that means it would end up being decided by an arbitrator. That could turn out well for the Skywest pilots, or you could get completely screwed. You're much better off with ALPA representation so you at least have a seat at the table and can try to reach a mutually beneficial solution without an arbitrator.

2. Nothing prevents JA from merging the airlines even if the Skywest pilots aren't ALPA members. If they aren't ALPA and the lists are merged, then it would trigger a representational vote for the new entire merged list. That would determine whether ALPA would represent the combined group.

3. The USAir pilots most certainly did get hosed, and it's because the situation was settled by an arbitrator. Anytime an arbitrator is involved, things become very unpredictable and usually very messy. Best to avoid any sort of arbitration at all costs.

 

[www.]

amcnd--you're right, US Air did get hosed even though they were both ALPA. Before the verdict was in, an America West jumpseater told me that the two groups were fighting it out in court but couldn't come to an agreement so it was left to a judge to decide and whatever the judge came up with was final.

Was it a Judge or an Arbitrator?

 

[www.]

If they can why haven't they already?

Because timing is everything in labor.

 

[flygirl556]

Was it a Judge or an Arbitrator?

I'm sorry. It was an arbitrator.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Because timing is everything in labor.

Exactly! Just imagine the power ALPA would have if the PID had been successful and DAL/CMR/ASA had negotiated as a single voice in 2000 while times were good and we had leverage..... timing is everything.....

What timing are we waiting for now? Single carrier petition is only for representational purposes. If Skywest is going to vote in ALPA, then a single carrier petition is meaningless. If Skywest isn't going to vote in ALPA, then one must ask WHY?

Interesting times....

 

[SSDD]

I don't understand the concern by ALPA. In my estimation, the only chance ALPA has of getting voted in is by combining ASA and Skywest. Skywest alone does not have a majority, but if you bring in most of the ASA pilots, plus the near half of Skywest that supports ALPA, then you have a deal.

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly! Just imagine the power ALPA would have if the PID had been successful and DAL/CMR/ASA had negotiated as a single voice in 2000 while times were good and we had leverage..... timing is everything.....

If the respective regional MECs hadn't associated themselves with extremists like Dan Ford and Jesse Ashcraft who were very vocal about demanding DOH, then maybe the PID would have had more success within ALPA. Of course, it doesn't really matter, because Delta management never would have gone for it anyway. A PID is just a union mechanism, Joe. It has no legal bearing with the NMB, and management has no reason to honor it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

PCL - I was in the middle of all of that and what you wrote about date of hire is absolutely not the truth.

In fact, Dan Ford is who I'm quoting when I write the generalization "By paycheck, or equipment type, a merger would have been a staple" My joke at the time was asking to print up "I'd be grateful for a staple" stickers.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but you deliberately mischaracterizing what happened in 1999 & 2000 is a disservice to pretty much everyone involved, including our current ALPA leadership who introduced the PID to the floor.

From a "unionist" perspective, unity is a good thing and the PID was the right thing to do. It would be better if it had been successful, but just because it failed does not mean it was wrong.

 

[vtech]

The amount of bad info on this thread is staggering......

The amount of bad info on this entire website is far more staggering. Why limit it to "this thread?"

 

[Nightrain_080]

You ever meet Brad Holt? I'd bet that as far as he's concerned the DOH for all ASA pilots is 9/2005.

Where has Uncle Rico been with all this Sapa vs Alpa talk. He must be bust tuning up the stache for the summer.

 

[Russ]

"You ever meet Brad Holt?"

On many occasions. I know he won't be the one who determines the means, methods or protocals for any merger.

 

[Positive Rate]

On another note, and dont quote me...(this should be a different thread)

I heard that if this thing does come to a vote.....and you go to vote and you vote against to have ALPA as rep.(i e SAPA is your rep or teamsters or whoever) then your vote actually goes to ALPA...due to the percentages or something screwy.......thats why ALPA supporters are saying to vote even if your voting against....so to actually vote no, your not supposed to vote at all.......anyone know anything about this? How does the process actually work?


K..i did make it a new thread

 

[PCL_128]

On another note, and dont quote me...(this should be a different thread)

I heard that if this thing does come to a vote.....and you go to vote and you vote against to have ALPA as rep.(i e SAPA is your rep or teamsters or whoever) then your vote actually goes to ALPA...due to the percentages or something screwy.......thats why ALPA supporters are saying to vote even if your voting against....so to actually vote no, your not supposed to vote at all.......anyone know anything about this? How does the process actually work?


K..i did make it a new thread

Not true. You can write in any other union if you don't want ALPA, you can vote no, or you can just not vote at all if you want, but the only way to place a vote for ALPA is to actually vote for ALPA. There are no tricks here. It's a very straight-forward process.