'Mergers' for Colgan Pilots

[jtrain609]

Rumors have been circulating that some (unidentified) Pinnacle pilots have said that if Colgan is merged with Pinnacle, the Pinnacle pilots would staple the Colgan pilots to the bottom of the Pinnacle pilots seniority list.

Here are the facts:

• Issues pertaining to an integrated seniority list would arise only in the event of a merger of the Colgan and Pinnacle operations. Management, not ALPA, decides whether to merge operations of the two companies. Management has publicly stated that it intends to operate Colgan and Pinnacle separately.
• If management should decide to merge the two operations, Colgan pilots would find the greatest protection for their interests by being members of ALPA and thereby covered by ALPA merger policy. Under ALPA merger policy, Colgan pilots would be entitled to participate in negotiations with Pinnacle pilots regarding integration of the two seniority lists. If agreement on an integrated list could not be reached through negotiations, the matter would be submitted to a neutral arbitrator, who would conduct a comprehensive hearing in which both pilot groups participate. Following the hearing, the arbitrator would decide how to integrate the two seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner.

In other words, there is no indication at this time that there will be a merger of Colgan and Pinnacle. If a merger were to occur, the best bet for the Colgan pilot group would be to be part of ALPA. Membership in ALPA would ensure that were a seniority integration to occur, the Colgan pilots would receive all the protections afforded by ALPA’s merger policy, including having a final decision about an integrated list be made by a neutral arbitrator. To learn more about ALPA merger policy, visit our website at www.alpa.org/colgan and click on the Colgan Library tab or click here.. http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...iew.aspx?itemid=7188&ModuleId=9065&Tabid=2223

 

[Fred Rogers]

that's the way I see it.
Fred

 

[DoinTime]

Management, not ALPA, decides whether to merge operations of the two companies.

The operations of the two companies do not have to be merged to have a single seniority list. I wouldn't expect the operations of PCL and Colgan to ever be merged.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rumors have been circulating that some (unidentified)

Stop right there.


Good stuff on the facts... but without knowing who said what then it really hasn't been said....

 

[vtchaz]

Rumors have been circulating that some (unidentified) Pinnacle pilots have said that if Colgan is merged with Pinnacle, the Pinnacle pilots would staple the Colgan pilots to the bottom of the Pinnacle pilots seniority list.

Here are the facts:

• Issues pertaining to an integrated seniority list would arise only in the event of a merger of the Colgan and Pinnacle operations. Management, not ALPA, decides whether to merge operations of the two companies. Management has publicly stated that it intends to operate Colgan and Pinnacle separately.
• If management should decide to merge the two operations, Colgan pilots would find the greatest protection for their interests by being members of ALPA and thereby covered by ALPA merger policy. Under ALPA merger policy, Colgan pilots would be entitled to participate in negotiations with Pinnacle pilots regarding integration of the two seniority lists. If agreement on an integrated list could not be reached through negotiations, the matter would be submitted to a neutral arbitrator, who would conduct a comprehensive hearing in which both pilot groups participate. Following the hearing, the arbitrator would decide how to integrate the two seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner.

In other words, there is no indication at this time that there will be a merger of Colgan and Pinnacle. If a merger were to occur, the best bet for the Colgan pilot group would be to be part of ALPA. Membership in ALPA would ensure that were a seniority integration to occur, the Colgan pilots would receive all the protections afforded by ALPA’s merger policy, including having a final decision about an integrated list be made by a neutral arbitrator. To learn more about ALPA merger policy, visit our website at www.alpa.org/colgan and click on the Colgan Library tab or click here.. http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...iew.aspx?itemid=7188&ModuleId=9065&Tabid=2223

If they care so much about us why wouldn't they be fair during a merger of the lists? Do we really need to be a member of the club to not be stapled? Is that how the organization works? If you don't play in their house then given the opportunity they will go out of their way to screw their fellow pilots? HMMMMM

I can think of a few other "organizations" that operate with these kinds of principles.

 

[DrewBlows]

If they care so much about us why wouldn't they be fair during a merger of the lists? Do we really need to be a member of the club to not be stapled? Is that how the organization works? If you don't play in their house then given the opportunity they will go out of their way to screw their fellow pilots? HMMMMM

Congratulations! You've just figured out the world isn't fair. Are you interested in how things should work or how things actually work? Plan on getting screwed by everyone, that way if you don't you will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[AvroGuy]

The operations of the two companies do not have to be merged to have a single seniority list. I wouldn't expect the operations of PCL and Colgan to ever be merged.

a good example would be Republic Airways. It has three companies(Republic Airlines, Shuttle America, and Chattaqua) with one senority list. Eagle is another one. Two companies(American Eagle and Executive Airlines) one list.

 

[jtrain609]

a good example would be Republic Airways. It has three companies(Republic Airlines, Shuttle America, and Chattaqua) with one senority list. Eagle is another one. Two companies(American Eagle and Executive Airlines) one list.

These are the same company. They have seperate operating certificates. BIG difference. Crew schedulers at Shuttle America are the same ones that handle the scheduling at CHQ and Republic. I think the dispatchers that are working for Shuttle America on Monday could be sitting at the CHQ desk on Tuesday. Basically, the same operation, seperate certificates.

 

[TurboAWD]

This has come up during dicussions with the Pncl MEC several times.

While it is possible that there are still a couple of idiots that are saying staple, it would NEVER HAPPEN!

The people saying that are not actively involved with the union, and are a TINY minority.

Strength thru numbers people. Colgan pilots joining ALPA makes us both stronger. Merging the lists eventually makes us much stronger.

Turbo

 

[Prop2Jet]

Merge your own list jackoff. How about we merge it and all you guys go under Colgan then what would you say about merging?

 

[GEORGE DUBYA]

Seriously I am not sending in my card or all (26) that I have collected until I get a lanyard I am serious. Where is my lanyard?

 

[CoolSidePillow]

a good example would be Republic Airways. It has three companies(Republic Airlines, Shuttle America, and Chattaqua) with one senority list. Eagle is another one. Two companies(American Eagle and Executive Airlines) one list.

the shuttle guys got screwed in that as well
that was a place like CJC.... get your time and get out. Guys that were looking to upgrade and get PIC got pushed to the bottom of a big list and now have hundreds above them to upgrade in the wannabe airliner

 

[suupah]

I haven't spoken to any Colgan pilots who want to merge the lists. In fact one of the big negatives for the union is the fact that Pinnacle Alpa would be much bigger and richer than Colgan Alpa. the feeling with many of the pilots at Colgan is that Alpa national would be much more in favor of P-Alpa's interests that C-Alpa.

Something else to realize about Colgan pilot group is that if you have been at Colgan for more than 4 years, you are an old timer. People just want to make sure this thing holds together long enough for them to get to a major. And they are losing captains at a very high rate right now.

 

[Yodafly]

I didn't feal like an old timer till your post

 

[TurboAWD]

Merge your own list jackoff. How about we merge it and all you guys go under Colgan then what would you say about merging?

Were you drunk when you posted this, or are you just an idiot?

I didn't say staple, I said merge. Do you feel that merging you list with an all-jet operator whos upgrade vacancies have been going to newhire lately would screw you over?

Turbo

 

[dingo222]

Were you drunk when you posted this, or are you just an idiot?

I didn't say staple, I said merge. Do you feel that merging you list with an all-jet operator whos upgrade vacancies have been going to newhire lately would screw you over?

Turbo

merge? like it's going to be one for one.

All jet? Who gives a F*ck. I sure as F don't. If I wanted that, i'd quit today and be reserve captain forever at PCL.

Merge it all you want. We just opened PIT and need ppl bad. 42 credit hrs at best, and stand up overnights. Come on over, we are waiting for the merger.

 

[TurboAWD]

merge? like it's going to be one for one.

All jet? Who gives a F*ck. I sure as F don't. If I wanted that, i'd quit today and be reserve captain forever at PCL.

Merge it all you want. We just opened PIT and need ppl bad. 42 credit hrs at best, and stand up overnights. Come on over, we are waiting for the merger.

I should have been more clear about the all-jet comment. It was in regards to pay (although the Q400 _should_ also pay well, as compared to B1900/SF34).

Be paranoid if you want, but the 9E pilot group/MEC would not throw you under a bus in a merger situation.

Turbo

 

[LanceAir]

First off, if Pinnacle decides to merge the 2 airlines, there is nothing that either group can do about it, except bitch.

I personally don't think that the Pinnacle guys would screw us on the merger, but, luckily, if we we're both ALPA, I wouldn't have to have an opinion at all, since ALPA has a "procedure" for merging 2 ALPA seniority lists. And the fact that Pinnacle is bigger and has been a member longer holds no weight, as the lists would still be merged according to procedure.

Plus, there would be fences put up for a specified period of time as agreed upon by the 2 MEC's, so, for a year or 2, neither group would be allowed to cross over to the others.

(BTW, I don't see too many guys taking a pay cut to fly the saab, or any of our guys going to MEM.)

Now if we remain non-union...we don't have a say in anything. we WOULD be at the mercy of Pinnacle ALPA.

....and if we had the Colgan Pilot Group representing us....we would still be subject to another powers wishes, since the "C.P.G" has NO authority

 

[Yudso]

These are the same company. They have seperate operating certificates. BIG difference. Crew schedulers at Shuttle America are the same ones that handle the scheduling at CHQ and Republic. I think the dispatchers that are working for Shuttle America on Monday could be sitting at the CHQ desk on Tuesday. Basically, the same operation, seperate certificates.

Not true. Each cert has their own jacka$$es working crew sked. Ops specs are different for each rah carrier, I.e. fo limits, green on green, etc.