MEI or Go Home?

[minitour]

Hopefully I'll be done with my CFI/II (along with finishing the CSE and ME) by January 31st...if by some grace of God I can finish the CME and CFII (that will be my initial) with a week or so until the CFI add on, I'll be faced with a decision...

1. I can just get the CFI done in that last week and leave...

2. I'm allowed another $20k or so on my loan so I could add on the MEI (takes about 3-5 days...so that week I'd be doubling up on the CFI/MEI)

What do y'all think?

I'd be getting the MEI in a duchess, so while I'd have the ticket, if I were going to instruct anything other than a duchess, I'd still need 15 hrs of PIC, correct?

With that in mind, would it be better to save the ~$4k on the duchess and when/if the time comes to do MEI stuff, I could just use that money to get the 15 hrs PIC and train for the MEI? (does that make sense - I kinda rambled there)

...I'm seeing a few sides to this.

1. I have the MEI, so I can put it on a resume...

2. It does me no good if the school that hires me doesn't fly Duchess'sss

3. The bonus of doing it here...141 with self examining authority...if I bust, I don't have the "pink" (some say it matters, some say it doesn't...I really don't want to find out)

Any thoughts? opinions? ideas?

-mini

 

[groundpointsix]

You'll need the 15 PIC regardless of whether you'll be instructing in a duchess or not. That can be in any multi-engine airplane. You will need 5 PIC make and model to instrumc for a rating or certificate. I know you need the 15 PIC to take the checkride, don't know if you necesarilly need the 5 make and model, but presumably you already have it. I don't have the far/aim in front of me, but it's somewhere in part 61.

 

[350DRIVER]

Go home... Unless you plan on instructing there then get it.

Captain RLW was seated at the right hand of the Father and will give you some heavenly MEI instruction.

3 5 0

 

[labbats]

I waited until I was hired as a CFI/CFII before getting my MEI. They usually cut you a break on prices, and when you're done, the PIC has been taken care of.

 

[seethru]

Mini,

Stay the extra 3 or 5 days and get it knocked out now. You are already in a training mind-set, you are familiar with the school you are working with now, and it won't cost you 20k to get it wrapped up.

I chose to wait a year or so after my initial CFI go get my MEI. What I found was that I was so busy with my own students, that it became difficult to schedule time for myself, another instructor, and an airplane. It ended up taking a lot longer than it needed.

The MEI is quite possibly one of the easiest rides a CFI can do. Especially if you are fresh off your initial ME and CFI rides and training. It's true you'll need 5 hrs PIC in the Make/Model of the multi-engine aircaft you'll end up teaching in. Find an MEI instructor where you'll be teaching and offer to split the costs. He/She probably wants to log some ME time to get the magical 100 or 200 hours. If you'll be teaching 141, your chief instructor will also have to go up in the plane to check you off before flying with students, so that time will count as well.

Greg

 

[minitour]

seethru:

I guess that's where I'm beating myself up at...

I'll be here anyway for the CFI add on, so why not do the MEI ground/flight training then take the checkrides back to back...if I blow the MEI, then I get additional multi time (included in the course) and no pink....

The other side is...as 350 said, I'm sure I could get some "heavenly" instruction elsewhere...

I'd hate to "pink" over something stupid on an otherwise "easy" CFI ride (if there is such a thing)...but if I can take the 4k it will cost me here (all inclusive) and use it where I'd be teaching...that would also include the 5 PIC I would need to instruct there...

so...it's down to:

Take the 4k extra and "git r dun" simultaneously with the SE CFI
-or-
Save and possibly split twin time with an MEI wherever I am fortunate enough to instruct and that knocks out the 5 PIC time that I need anyway...and then the checkride too...with a DPE I'm looking at what $300-400?

argh...

I'm sure my wife will make the decision easy for me, so the whole discussion probably isn't worth stressing over ...

Thanks for the input guys!

-mini

 

[BoilerUP]

I did my CFII a week after the initial, and then logged over 400 dual given over about 16-18 months while in college. I completed my MEI just last week.

I split time with people in a Seneca to build the PIC, then did 5 hours with an MEI for the airplane checkout and endorsement, but I was ready for the checkride after one or two flights. The MEI was the biggest joke of a checkride I have ever done. I'm sure it helped I was proficient on instruments, as well as in multi-engine airplanes and instructing (MEI checkride requires no instrument demonstration).

I believe my ride went so easily because of my experience as a working CFI. I would have done my MEI this summer at the school I was instructing for, but between scheduled MX and the schedule of the instructor, it didn't work out.

Just some info on how I went about doing it. Best of luck...

 

[350DRIVER]

The other side is...as 350 said, I'm sure I could get some "heavenly" instruction elsewhere...

I am sure he could also incorporate some systems stuff in there, you will need some dual prior to getting the 350 type.

3 5 0

ps>> If it were I then that money would be spent at the Ramada in Norman!!. (no sarcasm intended)

 

[minitour]

...ps>> If it were I then that money would be spent at the Ramada in Norman!!. (no sarcasm intended)

I guess an instructor went this past week and found out they moved the "entertainment" to a place called Teddy's...weird eh?

As for the 350type (isn't it a 300 type?)...I don't think I'll hold my breath...but stranger things have happened...

-mini

 

[PSL]

BoilerUP:

I hope for your and your family's sake you don't approach teaching in a multi-engine piston with the same attitude you displayed in your post.

By your own admission, you are just out of college (I'm guessing you are 21 - 24 years old) and somewhat new (400 hours dual given) to the instructing world.

Take it from someone just a little older ... DO NOT let your guard down for one second while instructing in a piston twin. If you stay alert believing the the student is actively trying to kill you, you have a good shot at enjoying a long career.

I could bore you with stories about how seemingly well intentioned students can put you in situations that you may not be able to recover. You don't have the benefit available to military jet instructors who normally can power their way out of hellish scenarios. Never ... ever let the student create a situation that makes you use all your skill to overcome your bad judgement.

When I was your age I was convinced I knew it all ... having the benefit of hindsight and a few grey hairs I'm amazed I lived to tell about what I did at your age.

I'm not patronizing you ... I don't want to read about the future dying needlessly due to bravado or stupidity.

 

[350DRIVER]

I guess an instructor went this past week and found out they moved the "entertainment" to a place called Teddy's...weird eh?

As for the 350type (isn't it a 300 type?)...I don't think I'll hold my breath...but stranger things have happened...

-mini

Correct... Yes, stranger things have happened.. LOL

Why did they move it? You sure?

3 5 0

 

[BoilerUP]

Psl

You must have misunderstood the intent (and more importantly, the attitude) of my post.

I didn't say instructing in a multi-engine airplane was easy. I said the checkride was easy, and the two are very different and not mutually exclusive. When I said the checkride was a "joke", I was referring to the required knowledge and flying skills per the PTS for the practical test. The skills required to pass that checkride are not difficult to learn or acquire, and THAT was the point of my post. Anybody can learn to recite VMC items from rote memory or how to draw VMC/stall diagrams, or how to do a steep turn from the right seat or even deal with an egine failure. The skills and knowledge required by the PTS does not a good multi instructor make.

I am fully aware of the hazards of instructing in a twin; my school lost a twin a few years back and the three people onboard were killed. Throughout my training (multi-COM and MEI), heading and airspeed and basic airplane control on a single engine were emphasized a TON. Every time I read a news article about a light twin (or even a King Air or MU2) VMCing it sends a chill down my spine. I don't want that next article to be about me, my friends or colleagues, and certainly not a former student.

On my MEI ride, the DPE demonstrated just how fast a basic light twin on a single engine can roll over on its back if you screw up by stepping on the wrong pedal. He did it from a very safe altitude, and having more than 5000 multi dual given, he knew how to do it just right to scare the jeebus out of me. Half of the oral was about Part 23 vs. Part 25 single engine climb performance and the judgement a multi-engine pilot has to make if they lose an engine at various points in the T/O and climb (after rotation, gear down, gear up, altitude to clean up and come back around, temp and pressure altitude, etc). That decisionmaking process is the most important, yet most difficult, thing to impress on a multi-engine student.

I appreciate your concern, and I even though I first read your post to be criticism, I soon realized you were just trying to keep me humble. Please rest assured I am fully aware of the risks of flying multi-engine airplanes, and safety is the most important thing I teach, regardless of airplane. I realize I am young and have alot to learn about both flying and instructing, but take my word for it when I say I am neither cocky nor a know-it-all 500 hour wonder. There are posters on this board that would attest to that.

Once again, thank you for your concerns - they are duly noted. I do not want to be a statistic any more than you don't want me to!

Regards,


BoilerUP

 

[minitour]

Correct... Yes, stranger things have happened.. LOL

Why did they move it? You sure?

3 5 0

I have no idea...I think I may have to investigate.....you know...for the well being of mankind

-mini

 

[350DRIVER]

I have no idea...I think I may have to investigate.....you know...for the well being of mankind

-mini

To be honest with you I am a tad shocked that it has taken this long.... Aighty, I am done hijacking this thread..

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

To be honest with you I am a tad shocked that it has taken this long.... Aighty, I am done hijacking this thread..

3 5 0

too much studying....now that the writtens are out of the way I can party...as long as the wife gives me permission...

-mini

 

[PSL]

BoilerUP:

I didn't confuse the distinction between the difficulty of the checkride and the 'challenges of teaching' ... now I am convinced you didn't either.

Your DPE did you a favor. When I was training MEIs in Cessna 310s and BE55/58 we spent 85 % of the time just talking about the items you mentioned in your post. I give insurance company checks in CE-300/400 series, BE55/58 and it astounds me how many people don't believe they loose 70-85% of their climb performance when a motor quits.

If the DPE did not ask you to demonstrate an instrument approach single engine under the hood from the right seat ... ask him/her (or someone you trust) to go out with you and do exactly that ... While the DPE was not obligated per the PTS to do it ... you might benefit from having a chat with him/her to get an idea of the workload involved for a new MEI.

You will be busy ... very busy ... and acutely aware just how dangerous a lack of attention can be.

It's a challenge ... because you have to let the student make mistakes so they can learn ... the trick is to know just how far to let them go before you get 'challenged'.

Best of luck ... enjoy your new rating ...

 

[HMR]

Mini-
Get the MEI. I took the gamble and got my CFI, CFII, and MEI with no break inbetween. About one month later I got my first multi student. Once I got her finished she told a friend who told a friend who told a friend... 12 months later I had given 500 Dual in the Duchess.

PS-When do you find time to study? You have 814 posts since April. That's over 100 per month!

 

[minitour]

...PS-When do you find time to study? You have 814 posts since April. That's over 100 per month!

aviation is my #2 in my life right now...only my wife is higher...which is a change from a year ago when she was number one and golf was number two...but anyway...

I'm sure a good percentage of my posts are dumbass remarks that have no meaning whatsoever...I'm a smartass by nature...

Plus if I'm not talking about flying, posting about flying, or thinking about flying...I'm reading about flying...trying to learn as much as I can in as short of a period of time as possible...

I like to think there are shortcuts to everything...you just have to decide if the shortcuts are worth working your balls off to get to...IMO...I think this one is worth it...

Hopefully any knowledge I pick up now, I can use in the future...so that's how it becomes a shortcut...

My favorites are Weather Flying and of course all of those FAA Books like Instrument Flying Handbook and Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (I'm reading it for like the fifth time right now)...of course the oral exam guides and PTSssss...

so...I do get to do quite a bit of studying...and I also "use" this board to learn too (although I am learning to use a filter on some of what I read on here ).

Anywho...thanks for the input...I guess I never thought about it that way...

if I don't have it and a multi student walks in, I have no chance of getting that time...if I do have it...then at least I have a chance to get that student...

Take care

-mini

PS I don't sleep a lot either

 

[English]

2. I'm allowed another $20k or so on my loan so I could add on the MEI (takes about 3-5 days...so that week I'd be doubling up on the CFI/MEI)

Are you saying that the MEI will cost you 20K where you are?

 

[minitour]

Are you saying that the MEI will cost you 20K where you are?

nonononono....I guess I didn't type that the way I was thinking it...

I can have another 20k on my loan...

the MEI should run around 4k (thats the number I've been told - but its funny, the lady that told me 4k told someone on the phone 2500...go figure)

-mini