Meeting between FO and NJ.

[rajflyboy]

Live4flying


Your clueless on the operation and cost of Corporate Jets!
Your the one that needs to go do your research!

I will give you the fact that a flight can be recovered more quickly with a fractional!! That is the Primary advantage to having an ownership with a fractional operator!

 

[Majik]

If these fractional operators think that Charter is expensive >>> they really should take a look at what they charge customers!!


I have run the #'s for chartering aircraft and compared them to buying into a fractional ownership in the same plane. Chartering is considerably cheaper! In fact it is not even close!!!

If Payne Stewart could, I bet he would think the fractionals are a bargain. Not that all charter companies are like Sun Jets, but you get something pretty standard with a fractional, whichever one you choose. One of the premiums you pay for at a fractional is safety. Obviously a lot of the rich and famous think it's worth it.

 

[NJAowner]

There are also benefits to fractional regarding deadhead time and repositioning time vs. charter. If you go to a place several hours away and stay for several days, you save the positoning/return costs, etc. Cartering makes more sense if you go out and back in the same day or a day later.

Also, I thoroghly agree with the Payne Stewart issue. I like to know the minimum of what I am getting, which you only get with a charter operator you know well (instead of the charter operator du jour like the "card" companies).

 

[rajflyboy]

I agree with you NJA Owner!

Some charter companies have pilots with tons of experience in Type and some have pilots with little if any experience!! For charter you really have to do your Homework!

At least you know with most fractionals >> Both Pilots are typed and Both Pilots are micromanaged to the Nth degree by management and the pilots have to take two checkrides to be qualified in their respective seat!

One checkride in a Simulator and one with the Company! You won't see that much training even at an Airline!

 

[Udonche]

"OK, lots of rumors floating around about this meeting, what it might signify and all the merger nonsense. I finally heard a someone who might have hit the nail on the head on what the get together was all about. The rumor is (and that's all it is until there's an official release I guess) that Options and Netjets are tired of getting ripped off by charter operators when they have to cover a flight for whatever reason. The idea is that the two companies will come to an agreement to cover each other's needs instead of calling up a charter and the meeting was to hash out the details. This will allow a pre-determined cost per hour that would be way below what your typical 135 operator would charge, will allow a higher standard level of quality and safety for those flights and will be much easier to cover."
____________________________________________________

Although I have been immersed in the field of professional piloting since high-school, one thing still amazes me to this day and will till thill the day I hang up my hat I'm sure: We gossip like there is no tomorrow!!! lol. But this one up above?

Do you really think that? NetJets wants to cut the feet out from under flight options. That’s one of the reasons they are bringing in the Hawker 400. What a slap in the face that is to Options!!! I think Santulli would actually roll on the floor in laughter if he heard this rumor stated above. It’s business not candy land and Options is NetJets stomping ground.

 

[JetCapt69]

please

Do you really think NetJets is going to run Options out of business?? LOL!! Options, like NetJets, has it's own little niche in the aviation industry. Santulli isn't GOD or ALLA, he doesn't eat the golden goose at Thanksgiving.

United, American, Continental, Southwest, etc. have all co-existed for decades. Netjets, like Options, is still young. New entries into the market like CitationShares will get and retain their own little niche in the market.

Funny how you think Options is a stomping ground for NetJets. That really cracked me up, keep em coming.

 

[Udonche]

Where in any of my remarks did you come up with the idea that I was saying NetJets is running Options out of business? The idea behind my comments, I thought were pretty straightforward. I am actually well aware that many fractional will co-exist and that the entire fractional industry is very young in terms of business but these companies are all competing remember. If anything is laughable it is the thought that Options and NetJets are sitting down and getting warm and fuzzy with each other.

As far your interpretation of what I said let me make it a bit more clear for you since you have apparently read way too far into my last post: I am well aware that Santulli is not God but you do have to recognize that he is the one that not only created NetJets but the entire concept of fractional aircraft ownership thus creating the industry. As far as the stomping ground remark it should have read more like this: ......... "And NetJets would like Options to be it's stomping ground. "

They are 2 different companies with very different marketing pitches. A combination of them would sell out many current NetJet owners and NetJets does not have the capital (unless Buffet gives it to them) to bring the Flight Options fleet up to NetJet owner standards. With NetJets barely breaking even in the books how would they pull somethig like that off? That’s all I was trying to say. As you noted, the industry is young, way to young for mergers that’s for sure!

PS. You need to relax a bit. Do you get that worked up often?

 

[JetCapt69]

NetJets wants to cut the feet out from under flight options. That’s one of the reasons they are bringing in the Hawker 400. What a slap in the face that is to Options!!! It’s business not candy land and Options is NetJets stomping ground.

Why not say what you mean?? I think it is quite clear what you meant. However, in response to your post, I found these statements above quite amusing. Notice the "LOL" and "Cracked me up" comments in my post.

BTW...calling me worked up is "cracking me up too:

 

[choppengruven]

bring the Flight Options fleet up to NetJet owner standards

Hey Udonche if you havent been told lately I'll remind you, Your a butt wipe

 

[Udonche]

And you are living proof that less than intelligent people can in fact fly airplanes thus disproving the theory that pilots are smart. You must be the guy in the bar that tells girls he's a pilot before he even tells them his name or asks theirs. By the way the phrase is "your are a butt wipe", not "you are AN butt wipe". I’m done with any moronic conversations here so don't expect a reply no matter how juvenile of a remark you come back with.

 

[35to1]

Origional qoute by Udonche.
By the way the phrase is "your are a butt wipe", not "you are AN butt wipe".
--------

Actually, "YOUR ARE a butt wipe" isn't correct either.

It should read "you're a butt wipe" or "you are a butt wipe".

 

[Live4flyng]

Sounds like there may be some merit to the rumor. The educated guess is that Raytheon will be offering it's owners contract renewals with NJA, since most are coming up for renewal this summer. Raytheon has said it wants out of the fractional business and it would make sense for the Hawker 800s and 400s to be sold to NJA along with the owners that renew the contracts. The rest of FLOPS will become its own company ending in LX tail numbers. Maybe that explains the 10 year maintenance contract and the $360 million airplane deal between Netjets and Raytheon. It could also explain why NJA has not been hiring and has plans to start this summer. Have to see how many owners renew their contracts before you go out and hire too many pilots, right? I smell a big deal in the making, but go ahead and prove me wrong.

 

[FracCapt]

Raytheon has said it wants out of the fractional business and it would make sense for the Hawker 800s and 400s to be sold to NJA along with the owners that renew the contracts. The rest of FLOPS will become its own company ending in LX tail numbers.

That would mean that the Flight Options management is pretty ambitious, since they reserved 749 tail numbers....just doesn't go along with your fairy tale there.

Hmmm....how about this.. Between NJA and FltOps there is not even 749 aircraft. Maybe FltOps reserved those tail numbers due to the plans to aquire all the owners and aircraft from NJA. Of course, since we are non-union, the pilots wouldn't be part of the deal..you know how we ALL feel about Unions.

 

[Live4flyng]

I know it can be a tough pill to swollow, but let's look at it another way. FLOPS reserved all these numbers, doesn't mean they have to use them. FLOPS has multiple airplanes around the country painted pure white, why would that be? NJA operates Hawker 800XPs and now 400XPs. Raytheon had/has 800XPs and BE400s. FLOPS buys used airplanes and refurbs them with new paint and interiors. NJA buys new airplanes. Why would NJA want the used fleet from FLOPS? NJA just signed a huge contract with Raytheon. Maybe in that contract there is language for NJA to take the original RTA owners into their program if so desired. By NJA purchasing the 400XPs, that leaves all options open for the existing owners in the BE400s. One more possibility, but pure speculation on my part; NJA sells it used airplanes to FLOPS, the reason for the 749 numbers.

Does LX=Less eXpensive.

 

[hawkercpt]

or maybe

they come up with our new paint scheme, Matterhorn white with three stripes, Gray, Teal, and Gold. They tail number change is to get away from the TA of travel air, and CW of Kenn Ricci's Corporate Wings. Heaven forbid the comany is doing ok and trying to look like the new company the two have formed, Flight Options LLC.