Media party over for JBLU

[elag777]

My theory, US Air/United will start to make money again in the next few years. Someone will tank (delta) and USair or united will wind up buying jetblue

Now that's funny!

 

[wndshr]

DAM....i was hoping it was over for 'em!" LOL!

Airlines
Friendly Skies
Tom Van Riper, 03.15.06, 6:00 AM ET
New York - The headlines: Southwest Airlines is raising fares, and JetBlue Airways is losing money. But don't expect it to last. Both low-fare carriers still have plenty of advantages over their tired rivals.
Not that you've heard much about that lately. Oil at $60 per barrel is throwing a wrench into profits at big and small airlines alike, and Southwest (nyse: LUV - news - people ) just announced it's raising roundtrip fares by as much as $20 to offset an expected $600 million increase in fuel costs. Several airlines rushed to match the fare increases, including Northwest Airlines, which said it will experiment with charging more for aisle seats.
JetBlue (nasdaq: JBLU - news - people ), after four years of growth and profits at the expense of the majors, is suffering its first real growing pains. The low-cost carrier lost $42 million during the fourth quarter of 2005 and has seen it shares tumble 35% so far this year. The company just announced a management shakeup to overhaul its legal, corporate-finance and government-affairs units.
As the smaller carriers grow, there's evidence of some price convergence in the industry. Prices at low-cost carriers are edging higher; those at high-cost carriers are getting lower. Will prices converge enough to cost Southwest and JetBlue their unique niches that made them such big passenger favorites in the first place?
Don't count on it, say the experts.
Southwest's strong balance sheet leaves it with plenty of leeway to nudge up fares while leaving its low-cost model intact. And JetBlue, while it's taken some recent knocks after its Embraer (nyse: ERJ - news - people ) aircrafts suffered some early reliability problems after a delayed debut, seems poised to get back on track after scaling back its New York-to-Florida routes that many analysts saw as an over-invested market.
Despite a long-standing joke that describes Florida as New York City's sixth borough, "there's still a natural limit to where the subway goes," says industry consultant Robert Mann.
JetBlue said it will discontinue its two daily flights between Newark and Tampa in May. And while the company did not follow others in matching Southwest's fare increase, Benchmark Capital transportation analyst Helane Becker expects it will announce its own plan later this week.
"By raising [one-way] fares $5 to $10 per seat, JetBlue can be profitable at $60 oil," Becker says. They have room to do it, thanks to the popular service, leather seats and television screens that make JetBlue a must-fly for so many passengers.
Meanwhile, United Airlines (nyse: UAL - news - people ) and American Airlines (nyse: AMR - news - people ) are still emerging from bankruptcy, and they're not yet making money. Delta Air Lines, whose executives just told an arbitration panel presiding over a dispute with its pilots that its tank is virtually empty, may soon be history. The company is looking to push its underfunded pension into the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, and have effectively told pilots threatening to strike that there won't be a business to come back to if they walk.
Mann says the big carriers' plans are to concentrate on international and major domestic routes and turn over the shorter hops to their subsidiaries like American Eagle (American), ComAir (Delta) and ExpressJet (Continental). Those carriers are emerging as JetBlue's competition into smaller cities like Buffalo, N.Y. and Burlington, Vt.
But enough people like JetBlue for the airline to continue undercutting the majors on longer routes by maintaining its model of flying into smaller airports just outside of major cities in some key markets. When you're the only player out there with a truly distinct brand, customers will put up with bypassing San Francisco and Los Angeles for Oakland and Long Beach, Calif.

 

[Caveman]

" Neeleman, 46, has been in the industry for more than two decades, starting in an executive spot with Southwest Airlines, a pioneer in the low-cost carrier world."

The guy writing an article that is predicting a tough row to hoe for B6 can't even get his basic facts right. Neeleman didn't start out in the industry as an exec for WN. He was recruited and hired by WN in 1994 during the Morris Air buyout and he was only there a few months.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

My theory, US Air/United will start to make money again in the next few years. Someone will tank (delta) and USair or united will wind up buying jetblue

USAir will start making money. It may take another year or two, but they will.

Delta has to go thru a lot more cash. But with interest rates going up they may not find suitable investors. Tough call. I'm going with their survival. (Unless the pilots strike.)

I see more merger activity in as little as 12 months. Alaska, Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue will be looking for mergers by then. It will be due to a lack of money/investors and a desire to grow in size.

And Airtran will be the strong partner in one of the mergers!!

 

[skykid]

Meanwhile, United Airlines (nyse: UAL - news - people ) and American Airlines (nyse: AMR - news - people ) are still emerging from bankruptcy, and they're not yet making money.

Keep posting these insightful and completely accurate articles.

 

[General Lee]

Meanwhile, United Airlines (nyse: UAL - news - people ) and American Airlines (nyse: AMR - news - people ) are still emerging from bankruptcy, and they're not yet making money. Delta Air Lines, whose executives just told an arbitration panel presiding over a dispute with its pilots that its tank is virtually empty, may soon be history



American is coming out of bankruptcy? Wndshr---your article just lost all credibility. You need to proof read them first before you post them----that is just plain wrong. And, if you think DL tank is empty---you forgot to read my latest article which stated that Dalpa caught our CFO on the stand when he admitted that we have an EXTRA $400 million in the coffers since the previous quarter. "Bastian noted that Delta ended 2005 with cash reserves that were $400 million higher than expected. "They can't have it both ways," said Lee Moak, chairman of the union's Delta unit."


Find better articles please.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jbvt]

So when you enter a market like PHL or DEn and under cut the legacy carrier with low fare tickets. It's not attacking the other carrier?

OK, whatever.....

Welcome to America, its called free enterprise.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Meanwhile, United Airlines (nyse: UAL - news - people ) and American Airlines (nyse: AMR - news - people ) are still emerging from bankruptcy, and they're not yet making money. Delta Air Lines, whose executives just told an arbitration panel presiding over a dispute with its pilots that its tank is virtually empty, may soon be history



American is coming out of bankruptcy? Wndshr---your article just lost all credibility. You need to proof read them first before you post them----that is just plain wrong. And, if you think DL tank is empty---you forgot to read my latest article which stated that Dalpa caught our CFO on the stand when he admitted that we have an EXTRA $400 million in the coffers since the previous quarter. Find better articles please.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yep, you are right, General Lee(oh) Mullin. That article has gots to be whack. There's no way any of the rest of that stuff could be true.

If the bankruptcy don't fit, then you must acquit.

 

[General Lee]

Yep, you are right, General Lee(oh) Mullin. That article has gots to be whack. There's no way any of the rest of that stuff could be true.

If the bankruptcy don't fit, then you must acquit.

Great comeback. Amazing. That left me "stunned."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Great comeback. Amazing. That left me "stunned."


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm sorry, no comeback for your comeback. I am frozen with fear. Kind of like having that "TA in the headlights" look.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sorry, no comeback for your comeback. I am frozen with fear. Kind of like having that "TA in the headlights" look.

Doesn't sound like you will EVER see a TA. They will give you what they want over there, like those E190 rates. I can vote NO on my TA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[IronCityBlue]

190 rates (again)

Doesn't sound like you will EVER see a TA. They will give you what they want over there, like those E190 rates. I can vote NO on my TA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You mean the ones you feel the need to emulate for the next 10 years? Does our 30 something city network, no JFK international alliances, lack of an outsource portfolio, no domestic alliance, a small fraction of a frequent flyer base and no widebody international (i.e. "where the money/future is") scare you into "lockin in" those rates for yourself for the better part of a decade (4-5 year deal, plus 3-5 year goverment sanctioned company stalling period even in the best of times).

Maybe we sould outsource them to 8 or 9 low bidder virtual airlines. Then use the "negotiating credit" we get and fatten our future 787 rates. Yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[General Lee]

You mean the ones you feel the need to emulate for the next 10 years? Does our 30 something city network, no JFK international alliances, lack of an outsource portfolio, no domestic alliance, a small fraction of a frequent flyer base and no widebody international (i.e. "where the money/future is") scare you into "lockin in" those rates for yourself for the better part of a decade (4-5 year deal, plus 3-5 year goverment sanctioned company stalling period even in the best of times).

Maybe we sould outsource them to 8 or 9 low bidder virtual airlines. Then use the "negotiating credit" we get and fatten our future 787 rates. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Hey, we set the bar for Fedex and Southwest to get better wages. We did our part. Then 9-11 hit and our company fell apart, and that wasn't our fault. I guess we allowed the $12 billion in losses since 9-11. Your management set the new benchmark for 100 seaters, and you couldn't do squat about it. Is that your fault? Well, you and the rest of us have to live with it now. Your Bavarian Friend liked to put in my face that he could see a TA coming at us---and I responded atleast we could vote on it. Sad but true. You will have to live with whatever your company gives you. Don't be throwing things out there when you can't even change your situation if you wanted to. Your E190 rates are low. Admit it. That set the bar. We tried to negotiate a rate above that (AWA did), and that is the best we can do under the circumstances with a judge.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[da90drivr]

General
Perhaps the JB 190 rates would not have been so low had Big D and the other Majors not farmed out all of the "little" airplane flying to the lowest bidder.
Did you get to vote on that too?

Hey, we set the bar for Fedex and Southwest to get better wages. We did our part. Then 9-11 hit and our company fell apart, and that wasn't our fault. I guess we allowed the $12 billion in losses since 9-11. Your management set the new benchmark for 100 seaters, and you couldn't do squat about it. Is that your fault? Well, you and the rest of us have to live with it now. Your Bavarian Friend liked to put in my face that he could see a TA coming at us---and I responded atleast we could vote on it. Sad but true. You will have to live with whatever your company gives you. Don't be throwing things out there when you can't even change your situation if you wanted to. Your E190 rates are low. Admit it. That set the bar. We tried to negotiate a rate above that (AWA did), and that is the best we can do under the circumstances with a judge.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[zonker]

I could have sworn that it was Republic Airways who set the Embraer 170 pay at $56 an hour.

 

[FDJ2]

General
Perhaps the JB 190 rates would not have been so low had Big D and the other Majors not farmed out all of the "little" airplane flying to the lowest bidder.
Did you get to vote on that too?

So you consider the E190 a "little" airplane?

 

[General Lee]

General
Perhaps the JB 190 rates would not have been so low had Big D and the other Majors not farmed out all of the "little" airplane flying to the lowest bidder.
Did you get to vote on that too?

I was hired after the '96 contract, just barely. You live and learn, and then you stop giving in. JB forced that E190 rate on you, because you have no vote. Could they give you a pay cut if things continue to slide for you guys? Yes, yes they could. We will vote to stop our slide, which has been considerable. And, I don't consider the E190 little.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Corbon]

I could have sworn that it was Republic Airways who set the Embraer 170 pay at $56 an hour.

I'll be the first to admit our pay is nothing great, but lets look at the entire picture. The TOP of Jetblues 12 year 190 payscale is $89. So at 12 years, that is four dollars more than I would earn to fly my 170, $9 more than our 145 captains, who fly an aircraft with half the seats of a 190, and over $3 LESS than what one of our 190 captains would make. So when pay negotiations come around for our new contract you don't think our company will refer to JB's rates?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Doesn't sound like you will EVER see a TA. They will give you what they want over there, like those E190 rates. I can vote NO on my TA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey, General -- I leave to serve my country today, and when I get back, I see you've been a busy little Southerner. But I cannot understand what e190 pay rates have to do with Teets and A$$! Listen bubba, if you don't get awestruck when a little TA is thrown your way, then you have got some problems.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I was hired after the '96 contract, just barely. You live and learn, and then you stop giving in. JB forced that E190 rate on you, because you have no vote. Could they give you a pay cut if things continue to slide for you guys? Yes, yes they could. We will vote to stop our slide, which has been considerable. And, I don't consider the E190 little.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Forced what rate on me or any other jb pilot? What was forced? I don't even fly the e190.