MD-80's 35% less efficient than A321's?

FlyBoeingJets

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Spirit Gets $100M to Speed Up Deliveries
Tuesday July 19, 3:00 pm ET
By John Pain, AP Business Writer Spirit Airlines Gets $100 Million Investment to Speed New Plane Deliveries



MIAMI (AP) -- Spirit Airlines said Tuesday it received a $100 million investment to help switch to a more economical, all-Airbus fleet two years earlier than planned and expand the low-cost carrier's hedges against rising fuel prices.

Goldman Sachs Credit Partners is contributing about $30 million in its first investment in the privately held Miramar-based carrier, Spirit president Ben Baldanza said. Oaktree Capital Management, the Los Angeles-based investment company that bought a controlling interest in Spirit for $125 million last year, is giving most of the remaining $70 million, with airline management also chipping in.

Baldanza wouldn't say how much of a stake Goldman Sachs now had, but said Oaktree retains a controlling share.

The new funding lets Spirit replace its remaining 23 MD-80 jets with Airbus planes by early 2007, instead of 2009, Baldanza said. The new planes are about 35 percent to 45 percent more fuel efficient than the MD-80s, most of which were bought in the early 1990s, he said.

"Our basic view is if we have the lowest cost in the industry, which we're pushing to have with our new fleet, ... then we're fully capable of competing in a tough environment," he said in a phone interview.

Spirit began replacing its fleet last year after Oaktree's investment. The carrier ordered 35 aircraft from European jet maker Airbus for $2 billion, with an option to get 50 more for another $3 billion. Spirit is already flying 11 of the new jets, and 24 more Airbus A-319s and A-321s are on the way.

The carrier is holding off for now on deciding whether to change any of the options to firm orders, Baldanza said.

Spirit's older planes make it tougher to compete with other low-cost carriers, which have newer fleets that guzzle less gas, Calyon Securities analyst Ray Neidl said. JetBlue Airways Corp.'s fleet has an average age of about 2 or 3 years, while Southwest Airlines Co.'s are about 7 or 8 years, he said.

The carrier had an operating loss of $5.3 million in the first quarter, according to the U.S. Department of Transportation. Baldanza said Spirit's average fares are about 10 percent higher this year.

Spirit has 125 daily flights to 20 cities in the United States, Mexico and the Caribbean, the market where the airline has focused on by offering lower fares than traditional carriers such as AMR Corp.'s American Airlines.

In November, Spirit plans to add nonstop flights to the Bahamas from New York's LaGuardia Airport and Orlando. The airline will also start flights to Jamaica in November. By then, nearly a quarter of its flights will serve the Caribbean. The discount airline began in 1980 as Charter One, a Detroit-based charter tour operator, and changed its name to Spirit Airlines in 1992.


If MD-80's are gas guzzlers then DAL is in deep do-do. No wonder the NWA DC-9's are getting parked. And what about AA's MD's???

 
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yaks

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Latest airbus buffoonery: F9 318 had a rapid depressurization and the masks failed to deploy. Thankfully the manual backup worked. This is a 2 year old airplane!! Airbus=P.O.S.
 

I.P. Freley

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Time for a game I call "What did I learn Today?"

Today's entry...

No Boeing product has ever had a malfunction within two years of delivery.
 

Whale Rider

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Too bad Spirit will miss out on the New Boeing 737-900ER

Boeing Launches New Higher Capacity, Longer Range 737
Lion Air and Boeing complete sales agreement for up to 60 737-900ERs

SEATTLE, July 18, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today officially launched the 737-900ER (Extended Range) -- the newest member of the world's best-selling Next-Generation 737 family -- following the completion of a sales agreement for up to 60 of the airplanes from Lion Air.
The 737-900ER, formerly known as the 737-900X, will carry more passengers and fly farther, increasing the capability of the Next-Generation 737 airplane family.

Lion Air, Indonesia's first low-cost carrier, originally announced its intent to order up to 60 737s earlier this year. Today's firm order is for 30 of the new derivative airplane, with purchase rights for 30 additional models. The order is worth $3.9 billion at list prices.

The first 737-900ER is scheduled for delivery in the first half of 2007.

"The Next-Generation 737 is the most efficient single-aisle airplane family today, and we are thrilled to have Lion Air as the launch customer to increase the 737 family's capability with the additional range and seating of the 737-900ER," said Alan Mulally, president and chief executive officer of Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "In addition to the unprecedented economic advantages, the 737-900ER shares the same industry-leading reliability of the world's most successful airplane family."

The 737-900ER is the same size as today's 737-900, but, with the addition of a pair of exit doors and a flat rear pressure bulkhead, will carry 26 additional passengers, raising the maximum capacity from 189 to 215 in a single-class layout.

Aerodynamic and structural design changes, including strengthened wings, a two-position tailskid, enhancements to the leading and trailing edge flap systems, and optional Blended Winglets and auxiliary fuel tanks, will allow the 737-900ER to accommodate higher takeoff weights and increase its range to 3,200 nautical miles (5,900 km), making it comparable to the 737-800's range.

"We are delighted to be the launch customer for the 737-900ER," said President Director Rusdi Kirana of Lion Air. "We are confident that the outstanding economics and reliability of the aircraft will contribute to the expansion and modernization of our fleet."

Powered by the CFM International CFM56-7B turbofan engines, the new derivative will have substantial economic advantages over competing models including 9 percent lower operating costs per trip and 7 percent lower operating costs per seat than the A321, which is more than 10,000 pounds (4,536 kg) heavier than the 737-900ER.

The Next-Generation 737s are 10 years newer and fly higher, faster, farther and more quietly than competing models. To date, 86 airlines have placed orders for more than 2,700 Next-Generation 737s.
 

aa73

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From the AA Flight academy rumor mill...

They are looking at installing the BMW/RR Boeing 717 engines on the whole Super 80 fleet. Still trying to work the numbers. That would take some serious cash... but then again, they are planning to keep the 80s for 20 more years.... so a re-engining would probably pay off in the long run. The end result would probably look just like an MD90 with those big fans.

This would cut the fuel flow from 3000lbs/hr per side to around 1500 (717 guys please correct me if I'm wrong.)

They are also looking at winglets for the 80s, 737s and 757s.
 

I.P. Freley

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Holy cow, HALF the fuel flow?? That's amazing.
 

trip

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I had a NW Capt. tell me the fuel burn on a DC-9 at cruise was about the same as the 757 we were flying on!
 

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Let's do a little math using some "swag" numbers.

Lease payment on $4mil md80 = less than $100K per month.
Lease payment on $20mil Airbii = somewhere around $300K per month.

Average hours flown per month by an average narrowbody = 300

Average fuel burn for an md80 (two hour flights) = 8000pph.
Average fuel burn for an a320 = 4800pph.

Average savings for Airbus = 3200pph times 300 hours equals 960000 pounds per month. 960000 pounds divided by 6.7ppg equals 143283 gallons of fuel saved per month by the airbus. 143K gallons times $1.70 per gallon equals almost a quarter of a million dollars of fuel savings per month.

When you factor in the fact that new airbii are under warrantee for the first couple of years, it starts to make sense to dump the md80's.

Please understand that my numbers are just a "swag" I don't know the exact fuel burn of either airplane and my lease payment numbers are even more of a guess.

Talk amongst yourselves.

Calvin
 

737 Pylt

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FlyBoeingJets said:
If MD-80's are gas guzzlers then DAL is in deep do-do. No wonder the NWA DC-9's are getting parked. And what about AA's MD's???
DAL has 125 MD's. AA is the one in big trouble. Last I heard they were nearly 300 MD-80's!
737
 

habubuaza

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If Spirit was really serious they would have seriously considered the 737NG's. Airbus can't compete with the range on the 737 that's why there are so many 737's here in Europe. There is a European A320 operator that subs one of their trips from Dublin to Luxor to a 738 operator. This trip departs Egypt with 180+ passengers at temperatures as high as 114 F to fly 6 hours non stop back to Dublin. The A321 is even worst. Just ask BMI. They will tell you that Airbus initially marketed the A321 to compete with the 757. That's a complete joke. The A321 has no range whatsoever. I am not an Airbus expert (although I like their cockpits) but I do get to review some operator comments. BMI has to use a 752 for their transatlantic flights. They have no choice.
 

MJG

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737-900ER = 757 lite.....


Thanks for the paycut boeing, I'm sure the airlines love you guys...
 

kelbill

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I can't doubt that the engines on the A321 are more efficient, but to say they are 35-45% more efficient seems ridiculous. Just squeaking out a 10-20% increase in efficiency in the last 10 years would be superb. Heck, SWA would be buying them if they were that good. I think they were comparing apples to oranges. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Doesn't mean the A321 isn't a better deal though.
 

yaks

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No Boeing product has ever had a malfunction within two years of delivery.

While I appreciate the sarcasm, the situation I was referring to is one of multiple failures of redundant systems. Almost unheard of. When you factor in the reliability problem of the ab and fuel burns more on the order of 6000 pph + whatever savings they can ring out from upgrades, I think AA is in a great position.
 

aa73

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737 Pylt said:
DAL has 125 MD's. AA is the one in big trouble. Last I heard they were nearly 300 MD-80's!
737
In big trouble no.. at least not yet. I think DAL is hurting a little more than us these days. Those MD80s have a pretty low break even point on most markets.

Hey, we actually turned a profit!
 

AA717driver

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On the 717 fuel flow, I think it was around 1500-1700/side. Isn't 3000 a side a little high for the -80?

I'd rather fly a 40 year old McD product than a brand new 'Bus. JMO.TC
 

ERfly

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AA717driver said:
I'd rather fly a 40 year old McD product than a brand new 'Bus. JMO.TC
Well, that 40-year-old Douglas is the Tank With Wings (DC-8) and yeah, I'd fly it over anything coming from those cheese eatin' surrender monkeys.
 

aa73

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AA717driver said:
On the 717 fuel flow, I think it was around 1500-1700/side. Isn't 3000 a side a little high for the -80?
Nope, it's right around 3000 per side in the low/mid FL300s at .76.

I'd rather fly a 40 year old McD product than a brand new 'Bus. JMO.TC
Ditto!
 

Jeff Helgeson

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I love you, man!

AA717driver said:
I'd rather fly a 40 year old McD product than a brand new 'Bus. JMO.TC
That's just something in my eye, I don't get emotional!

I think the reliability of the MD80 is one of the best in the industry. One always has to factor in the purchase price of new vs. used and the cost and dependabilty to operate the equipment
 

Jeff Helgeson

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I only find you mildly attractive, but

aa73 said:
Nope, it's right around 3000 per side in the low/mid FL300s at .76.



Ditto!
Right On!!!
 

jimcav

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aa73 1500 pph per side is a little optimistic. Most loads we carry in the 717 are so heavy that anything above 350 is unusual. Even at that alt at max weight you're at 23-2500 pph. What hurts the 717 though is the DC-9 30 wing. Those BR715s can take us a lot higher, the problem is that wing. If I'm not mistaken the 80 will make the low 40s and with those BR715s that fuel flow could likely be in the 1500-1700 pph range. I have seen the 717 at 370 at 94000 lbs ( as heavy as I'll go up there with that ole 9 wing) consume 18-1900 pph. For us that is not a very good (half) load. That said the 717 is a DC-9 and not a maddog, and the wing is what holds us down. The engines are overpowered and I think will complement the 80 nicely.
 
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