MD-80 hard landings

[satpak77]

is it just me or as a PAX does it seem that all MD-80's land pretty darn hard, regardless of carrier?

or is it just the Fly Navy crews I have had lately?

 

[bobs98tlr]

I agree but i have found out it depends on where you sit. If its the first row or two behind the main wheels then its pretty much no matter what going to be hard. Everywhere in front of the mains are pretty much ok.

 

[enigma]

is it just me or as a PAX does it seem that all MD-80's land pretty darn hard, regardless of carrier?

or is it just the Fly Navy crews I have had lately?

Obviously, you haven't flown with me

I ride in the back quite frequently as a commuter and on company deadheads. I'm usually on AA, and I can say that the AA Super80 crews do a real good job of landing the bird.

The -80 isn't easy to land, but doing so is possible. The location of the mains is significantly aft of the pitch rotation point, so a normal landing rotation actually drives the mains down. Once you learn to flare early, then PUSH over at about the point of touchdown, you'll roll it on every time. Unfortunately, even after thousands of hours in the airplane, it still takes a conscious effort to push when your reflexes want to pull.

enigma

 

[dal72]

That's interesting.

 

[Pilot877]

Obviously, you haven't flown with me

I ride in the back quite frequently as a commuter and on company deadheads. I'm usually on AA, and I can say that the AA Super80 crews do a real good job of landing the bird.

The -80 isn't easy to land, but doing so is possible. The location of the mains is significantly aft of the pitch rotation point, so a normal landing rotation actually drives the mains down. Once you learn to flare early, then PUSH over at about the point of touchdown, you'll roll it on every time. Unfortunately, even after thousands of hours in the airplane, it still takes a conscious effort to push when your reflexes want to pull.

enigma

That sounds a lot like the DC-10, too. If you flare too late, you drive the mains into the runway.

 

[flx757]

If you "fly" it on to the runway, it is very easy to get consistently good landings in the MD-80. I never subscribed to the "push" theory. I don't believe in it, I don't use it, I don't teach it. Good technique is all that is required. Don't over-rotate in the flare, know the pitch attitude required, flare just enough to break the descent, then hold it. It smoothly rolls on.

 

[bobs98tlr]

That sounds a lot like the DC-10, too. If you flare too late, you drive the mains into the runway.

No offense to the FedEx guys but i see that pretty frequently with them.

 

[bafanguy]

If you "fly" it on to the runway, it is very easy to get consistently good landings in the MD-80. I never subscribed to the "push" theory. I don't believe in it, I don't use it, I don't teach it. Good technique is all that is required. Don't over-rotate in the flare, know the pitch attitude required, flare just enough to break the descent, then hold it. It smoothly rolls on.

flx,

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Pilot877]

No offense to the FedEx guys but i see that pretty frequently with them.

You're kidding, right? That's probably one of the finest group of aviators in the business. I'm sure they don't suck like that.

 

[bobs98tlr]

You're kidding, right? That's probably one of the finest group of aviators in the business. I'm sure they don't suck like that.

Hold up a sec..I never said anything about there skill or about them sucking. I just said if you watch them land the DC-10's you'll see a lot of them drive the mains into the ground kinda hard. Hell most of the FedEx guys are ex military pilots, im sure a lot of them are just keeping up with there boat landings..

 

[bafanguy]

I just said if you watch them land the DC-10's you'll see a lot of them drive the mains into the ground kinda hard.

bobs,

If your avatar is correct and you have little flight time, I will tell you that you can judge very little about the "quality" of a landing while watching from the sidelines.

If you're avatar is an understatement, you already knew this.

 

[njcapt]

The MD-80's, especially the long body ones, land like crap. I had to utilize the push over technique to make anything approaching consistent landings. You've got to remember that you're using a little tab to move the whole elevator and when you're bleeding off speed carried for winds and gust factor, you can easily run out of elevator authority before the beast touches down. I used to trim back and hold forward control pressure when I had more than a ten knot speed additive to counteract this tendency, and I didn't appreciate having to pull shizzle like that to attempt to make a decent landing. In calm or low steady state wind you can get in the ballpark for a decent landing, but if you touch one of the mains down gently (I can't remember which one) the freakin spoilers deploy all at once and make the thing plop down like an old man getting into a lazy-boy. Bottom line, if you try to flare late you'll drive the mains into the ground.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

I will tell you that you can judge very little about the "quality" of a landing while watching from the sidelines.

An LSO would tell you otherwise.

 

[Singlecoil]

Normally, just let the autothrottles pull the power back to idle at 50 feet while simultaneously pulling back just a hair on the yoke. At about 30 feet, start lowering the mains to the runway (flaring). Touch down at ref -5 and you've got it. I didn't like the push forward technique either, but it was nice to have in your back pocket.

One very notable exception to that technique is when the cg is in the single digit range. In that case, you have to start the flare with the power still in or you will run out of elevator like njcapt said.

 

[satpak77]

yeah I always sit in 20B, the aisle at the reclining exit row, with the most leg room in the whole cabin. This is close to the main gear, so maybe I am feeling all the energy in my chair.

 

[bafanguy]

An LSO would tell you otherwise.

I'll just stand by my statment as it refers to bobs98tlr's point because that's what I know to be true after having made a few...and watched a few...air carrier "landings".

Never ran across an LSO in the airline biz; sounds like a different matter. Couldn't say for sure.

Grease jobs are vastly overrated. The best aviator I ever saw in 38 years of flying, without peer, didn't make particularly "good" landings.

But, I guess, beauty is in the eye of the beholder ?

 

[XTW]

The -80 can't be that difficult to learn, as I was able to get consistantly good landings. Just carry a little power into the flare and fly Ref+10(provided runway length is not an issue). It's not rocket science folks.


X

 

[fLYbUDDY]

Just flew on a Spirit 80 today and the landing was as smooth as one could ask for.

 

[enigma]

If you "fly" it on to the runway, it is very easy to get consistently good landings in the MD-80. I never subscribed to the "push" theory. I don't believe in it, I don't use it, I don't teach it. Good technique is all that is required. Don't over-rotate in the flare, know the pitch attitude required, flare just enough to break the descent, then hold it. It smoothly rolls on.

That works too. I learned the "push" techique from a now retired guy who flew 9's and -80's for thirty years. He never made a bad landing, so I figured that he might be onto somthing. However, I most likely misrepresented the technique. Basically, he used your technique. He did NOT over rotate in the flare, and his "push" was most likely just gentle relax or nudge over.

The point of all of this is that it IS possible to make good landings in the -80.

How'd the FedEx chance go?

Luck,
enigma

 

[TWA Dude]

I never used a "push" method nor did I ever hear of anyone at TWA using it. For me power was the biggest cushion for landing the 80.