Maximum flying time for 1 month?

F16fixer

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I was trying to read the regs, but a butterfly went by and I got distracted!
How much time can you legally fly in one month? I fly freight 5 nights a week(most of the time) and I'm also obligated to flight instruct a few hours a week. Ones part 135 and the others part 91. Do the total times from each job count against one another? I'm probably missing something simple.

Thanks

(Freight is around 26 hours a week)
 
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KeroseneSnorter

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Part 135 is 120 hours in a calender month. Scheduled operations

Flight instructing does count as part of the 120 hours.

However you are limited to 1200 hours in a calender year, so you cannot do 120 every month and be legal for the whole year.

Ref Part 135.265

Your 135 SOP's may have additional limits imposed as well.

Unscheduled ops use the 500 hours per quarter rule (Part 135.267)
 

TransMach

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135.261/263/265/267 rules

Congratulations ... you, my friend, have asked a BIG question ... I'll love to hear the postings.

This is gonna confuse you, a lot of other folks and maybe get trashed.

But for now here's a couple of things ...

1) If the flight school you work for is the holder of the FAR 135 Air Carrier Certificate (certificate holder) then anything you do for them is not rest.

2) Any time the certificate holder makes an assignment for flight time under 14CFR135, the Flight Time Limits and Rest Requirements of the part must be maintained.

3) If you're being duped by a abustive employer, I'd be glad to help.

TransMach
 

Art Vandalay

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One question that came up when I was doing the same thing you are: Is flight instruction considered commercial flight time that counts towards your 500/quarter, etc? Technically, you are being paid to teach, not fly. I look forward to the responses.

Art V.
 

KeroseneSnorter

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Art Vandalay said:
One question that came up when I was doing the same thing you are: Is flight instruction considered commercial flight time that counts towards your 500/quarter, etc? Technically, you are being paid to teach, not fly. I look forward to the responses.

Art V.
I have seen that one too. Who is PIC would have a bearing on the answer. For our purposes, everywhere I have worked considered CFI time as counting against your yearly totals.

What your POI says about it counting is the only one that really matters, and that answer is probably a diverse as the number of POI's out there!
 

bigepilot

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It is indeed. The duty limits refer to "commercial flying" or "flying for hire" both of which you are doing when you instruct. You couldn't do so without a commercial certificate. Many times the pilots at my company debate this issue on "dead heads" after a 135 leg. Company says it is not duty time but we are indeed being compensated to reposition the aircraft. I'm sure other 135 drivers have been in this same debate.
 

F16fixer

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Thanks for all the timely responses,

The same guy owns the flight school and the charter operation, but I believe the charter is under a different ticket. All this flying plus the commute is burning me out. I think I'm going to quit teaching for now.

???? One more. I've had the rest period explained to me by a few different charter guys and all gave me different answers! Didn't really talk to much about it in my check out:( I fly lab tests samples every night around the same time or when ever the delivery truck arrives. Is this considered scheduled or on demand? I apologize if these are dumb questions to the seasoned vets.


TransMach said:
Congratulations ... you, my friend, have asked a BIG question ... I'll love to hear the postings.

This is gonna confuse you, a lot of other folks and maybe get trashed.

But for now here's a couple of things ...

1) If the flight school you work for is the holder of the FAR 135 Air Carrier Certificate (certificate holder) then anything you do for them is not rest.

2) Any time the certificate holder makes an assignment for flight time under 14CFR135, the Flight Time Limits and Rest Requirements of the part must be maintained.

3) If you're being duped by a abustive employer, I'd be glad to help.

TransMach
 

NoPax

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???? One more. I've had the rest period explained to me by a few different charter guys and all gave me different answers! Didn't really talk to much about it in my check out:( I fly lab tests samples every night around the same time or when ever the delivery truck arrives. Is this considered scheduled or on demand? I apologize if these are dumb questions to the seasoned vets.
Look at your company provided Operations Specifications - Part A. In it you'll find the reference to 'flight time limitations and rest requirements' - in mine its page A036.

If you don't have a copy of the regs at hand, you can google FAR 135.

Sounds like you are scheduled, therefore 135.265 [ref:Ops Specs] otherwise 135.267

If you are scheduled and operating single-pilot then you are limited to:

1,200 hours in any calendar year.
120 hours in any calendar month.
34 hours in any 7 consecutive days.
8 hours during any 24 consecutive hours for a flight crew
consisting of one pilot

No certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember, and no flight
crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time during the 24
consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any flight
segment without a scheduled rest period during that 24 hours of at least
the following:

9 consecutive hours of rest for less than 8 hours of scheduled flight time.

9 consecutive hours rest may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if you are given a rest period of at least 10 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.

Each certificate holder shall relieve each flight crewmember
engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at
least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.

If you are going to juggle flight instruction and the charter flying, I would strongly suggest you take it upon yourself to thoroughly understand the rest and duty regs. Your boss isn't necessarily going to look out for you on this one, given the two sides of his/her business.

? Are the lab test samples carried, going to or from the lab??? See where I'm going with this one???
 
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milehigh6080

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By my limited understanding of scheduled vs. unscheduled you're not necessarily scheduled. If the customer is dictating the schedule to you, and the customer would be the driving force in having the pickup times and frequency changed, then you're flying on-demand. It just so happens that the customer is demanding that you meet a regular schedule which he sets. If your company creates a schedule ahead of time and then advertises it to potential customers saying "we want to fly from A-B at 2300 monday-thursday, is there anything that you want to send with us at that time?" then that would make you a scheduled carrier.

As an unscheduled operator, you're limited to 500 per quarter and 800 in consecutive quarters. The only limitation in a month would be how many hours you can fit in while meeting all the required rest periods.

I'm relatively new to the 135 world as well, so if any of this information is inaccurate, I'll really appreciate an old hand clearing it up for me.
 

Rick1128

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Actually .265 and .267 are areas that the operator can chose to operate under, if they meet certain requirements. Several cargo operators chose to operate under both sections. And there will be a paragraph or two in the OPS Manual discussing that.

As for the 91 legs home. That can be a sticky question. The reposition legs to and from a charter flight are considerd 91. According to decisions from FAA Legal, the requirements of ~119.1 must be met for the flight to be considered a 135 flight. Must carry passengers and/or cargo for compensation or hire. Some inspectors and FAA attorneys look at the repositioning legs as 'transportion, not local in nature, provided by the company'. Therefore it is not rest.

Now that you are totally confused, welcome to the club.
 

pilotyip

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300 hours commercial flying in a 30 day period for 2-pilot un-sked 135 ops. Any time you are paid to fly, even on a 91 leg, it is considered commercial time. It is not refered to as time under this part.
 

F16fixer

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O.K., so I have some reading to do. It sounds like it is an unscheduled job. How long is a quarter? 3 months I presume, but 500 hrs sounds like a lot of flying single pilots in that short of time.
 

milehigh6080

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300 hours? Wow, so basically for all intents and purposes it's unlimited? Where does it actually give that figure?

It sure would be nice if the regs were easily interpreted by those who actually use them on a daily basis. There's nothing like flying around and doing something and thinking "hmm, I wonder if this is legal," because you're honestly unsure of it, even though you've studied the applicable FARs.
 

milehigh6080

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There's a Jeppesen book called "Part 135 Explained in Plain English" or something to that effect- has anyone read it and is it worth picking up?
 

F16fixer

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So I show up to the airport at 9:30pm to depart for a 30 minute flight to pick up the tests for the day. Usually depart the second airport at 11pm (give or take 30 minutes) 2.2-2.4 hour trip to drop off the freight, then a 2 hour trip home, 15 minutes of paper work and a 50 minute commute home. Usually no more than 7-8 hrs from departure to landing at home. Would this require a 9 hr rest period.--- Starting when I drive my car away from the airport.

Sorry if I'm a little slow, with deer hunting approaching and working, I'm running myself ragged, I don't catch on too quickly lately and it's starting to show!
 

NoPax

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Would this require a 9 hr rest period.--- Starting when I drive my car away from the airport.
If all you are doing is that scheduled run, and your Operation Specifications specify that 135.265 is applicable then yes - there is no use to remaining on duty. However, if you want to juggle the flight instructing as well (with the same operator), therefore you could at the beginning of the week (after 24 consecutive hours rest):

1 The latest you could go on duty at 21:30, fly 5 hours, remain on duty to instruct another 3 hours until 12:30, then leave, take nine hours rest (away from the airport), and go back on duty the following duty day at 21:30 again.

Or (Assuming you finish your freight flying at around 4am)

2 The earliest you could go on duty - 1300 fly up to 3 hours with students, then fly your frieght as usual and go off duty at 4am (as scheduled/expected).

It would be dictated by the first duty day of the week, after the 24 hours consecutive rest in 7 consecutive days.

On your flight manifest there should be somewhere to write the time you go on duty, amount of rest you got prior to going on duty, time off duty, and time available to go on duty again.

I'll go out on a limb here, and say that you go 'on duty' when you arrive at the airport with the intent to fly - the drive there doesn't count - and off-duty when you leave the airport after you're done with your paperwork.

Your Director of Operations is really the one to ask. He'll be totally familiar with your Operations Specifications (has his signature all over it), and has operational control over you, as a line pilot. Assuming s/he wants to keep their job, and violations to a minimum.
 
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Andy Neill

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NoPax said:
.....1,200 hours in any calendar year.
120 hours in any calendar month.
34 hours in any 7 consecutive days.
8 hours during any 24 consecutive hours .....
Small correction here. You are limited to 8 hours scheduled time during any single DUTY period. You MAY be scheduled for more than 8 hours in a 24 hour period if there is a legal rest between the two duty periods in that window.
 

NoPax

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Andy Neill said:
Small correction here. You are limited to 8 hours scheduled time during any single DUTY period. You MAY be scheduled for more than 8 hours in a 24 hour period if there is a legal rest between the two duty periods in that window.
I cut & pasted directly from the Reg 135.265
http://www.gofir.com/fars/part135/

When you go on duty you look back during the previous 24 hours and ask - Have I had required rest/reduced? Can I complete the flight without exceeding 8 hours flight time / 24 consecutive hours? I haven't heard of any deviations of the 8 hours flight time per 24 consecutive hours for single pilots.

Do you mean to say that you can go on duty at 1800, fly 5 hours, off duty at 0400, back on at 1200 (legal reduced rest) to fly scheduled trip of 4 hours off duty at 1800 again - total of 9 hours flight from 1800 to 1800??? If so - I haven't heard that, and it sounds contrary to the reg.

Maybe the only acceptable exceptions would be Weather, Late Freight, or ATC Delays that weren't forseen.
 

Andy Neill

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I stand partially corrected. When I quoted, I left out the very necessary phrase ""for a flight crew consisting of only one pilot".

A crew of two could indeed be scheduled for the times you cited but not a single pilot operation. One need only look at the later portion of your quote discussing the required rest for more than eight or even more than nine hours of SCHEDULED time within the last 24 hours to see that such a schedule is allowed for with proper rest.
 
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