Matthew Berson Salary $33,750

[ePilot22]

Our duties as pilot consist of moving through the air from A to B safely and consistently. All day, every day. That's not very difficult.

A CEO or CFO does not have the same day every day. Their duties can be very dynamic and a lot of people from stockholders to employees depend on a CEO doing their duty well. What would you pay Jerry Atkin or Richard Anderson a year to ensure you get to earn a living?


I didn't really answer your question about Dead Animal Collectors making more money than Regional Airliner Pilot, so I'm going to give you the chance to do it.

How much would I have to pay you a year to pick up the dead and decaying animal carcasses laying on the roadway every year. Day in and day out you will spend 8 hours (2080/hr yearly) of your life scraping up rotting dead animals.

How much? $20,000? I doubt it. $40,00? Maybe. $80,000? Sure, why not. $160,000? Hell yeah!

How much to be a regional airline pilot?


Now do you see why they might make more than you? Would you want to do it?





eP.

 

[wms]

Our duties as pilot consist of moving through the air from A to B safely and consistently. All day, every day. That's not very difficult.

A CEO or CFO does not have the same day every day. Their duties can be very dynamic and a lot of people from stockholders to employees depend on a CEO doing their duty well. What would you pay Jerry Atkin or Richard Anderson a year to ensure you get to earn a living?


I didn't really answer your question about Dead Animal Collectors making more money than Regional Airliner Pilot, so I'm going to give you the chance to do it.

How much would I have to pay you a year to pick up the dead and decaying animal carcasses laying on the roadway every year. Day in and day out you will spend 8 hours (2080/hr yearly) of your life scraping up rotting dead animals.

How much? $20,000? I doubt it. $40,00? Maybe. $80,000? Sure, why not. $160,000? Hell yeah!

How much to be a regional airline pilot?


Now do you see why they might make more than you? Would you want to do it?





eP.

Heck, I'd pick up dead animals for nuthin'!

 

[777forever]

If not, go to the library and check out: Basic Economics, A Citizen's Guide to the Ecomony. By Thomas Sowell.

eP.

Bravo my friend, Bravo! Well written response. Unfortunately it probably goes way over the head of most folks on here. Wonder how many pilots on here took a strong business oriented curriculum in college? Also, I can't believe people are getting jealous of a 56 year old man making $38,000 a year picking up dead animals! Are you kidding guys? Do you think you can get hired for this job today for $38,000? I bet this guy has been on the job at least 10 years, is a manager, and/or owns the company.

 

[pipejockey]

Dead Animal Collectors, Garbage Collectors, Port-A-Potty Cleaners, etc., are going to be paid well because nobody wants those jobs.

I totally disagree. If I knew 10 years ago what I know now, and that is how little an airline pilot can expect to earn, and that most would be stuck at the despicable regional airlines their whole career, I would have saved a significant amount of money and foregone the 4 year degree and flight training. The opportunity to have a job which requires ZERO brains, ZERO education, ZERO responsibility, Zero stress, Zero time away from home, and get paid 40 grand to do it is a dream come true. But the way you speak of our so called profession, you make it sound like you feel our job fits the above description. And with unemployment at 10%, I disagree with your contention that no one wants those jobs!!

Are you with me so far?

I don't appreciate being patronized.

You'll see that the NYC receptionist makes more because it cost more to live in NYC. Now I'm a receptionist looking for a job and there are two openings both requiring the same set of job skills/labor/hours etc, and I don't have a preference on where I would like to live. I think we both can agree it will cost more to (rent an apartment/buy a house, insure a car, buy food) live NYC then Scotts Bluff, NE. So if I take a NYC, I'm going to require money than in NE. Your money will go farther in NE, or in other words, you'll get more "bang for your buck". The employer in NYC will have to pay more to attract an employee in/to NYC.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. So where is that extra pay for a NYC based airline pilot? Oh thats right, we are talking about pilots here. They must have rolled over on their backs in the submissive position for management to have their way with them. Like every good little airline pilot who thinks that they are just paying their dues and one day they will make it to a Major soon. And you think I'm dumb!!! I bet you're one of those RJ guys who thinks you're going to get to that Major Airline I bet?

Still there?

Again, no reason for patronization.

Anybody can act. Not everybody is "good" at it ("good" being subjective). So there is a supply of "actors", but demand for "good actors". Again the same goes for artist and so on. When you are a "good actor" you can command the pay you want (or what someone is willing to pay).

These so called actors and actresses are the biggest waste on the face of the planet. Second to airline management. Plenty of the wannabes waiting tables over there can do just as "good" a job. They provide a meaningless service (providing entertainment) that society can manage without, whereas the service we provide (transporting people quickly over large distances) would be harder to live without. It is my assertion that this profit based economy causes an extremely unfair system of compensation for many labor groups. Not that it would ever happen, as the rich control every aspect of our lives, but a resource based economy is the only way humanity will get past the bottleneck that is preventing us as a people from moving beyond personal profit. As long as the likes of the bildeburger group control our lives, we will never advance as a people.

That last example works with CEO and management people as well. United and Delta both compete for a top CEO (in theory, because we all know Tilton SUCKS!). They are not only looking for the best within the aviation industry, but every industry. They are looking for someone who can run a billion dollar company. Those kind of people are VERY rare and can command very high salaries.

WHAT??? These "top" CEO's that have not been able to cumulatively turn a profit in the history of the airline industry?:laugh: These a** clowns are running this industry at a loss. And how do they get away with it? Just declare bankruptcy, throw out labor contracts, pensions, and pay pilots half of what they earned in years past while forcibly renegotiate with creditors? These CEO's are buffoons. The only thing they have mastered is incompetence. Coming from a rich family and having mommy and daddy pull their strings and get you in Harvard, Yale, or one of the several other schools that churn out these pathetic little blights of the planet, hardly makes them the best and the brightest of ANY industry. I would go so far as to say that I wouldn't consider these people the best and the brightest among even those getting supper down at the soup kitchen! It wasn't until this last quote from you that I realized you were off your rocker!

We are hired based on hours flown and some flying skill (which is set to a national standard -objective). In the early days of aviation there were't many pilots, or flying public for that matter. Pilots would get minimal pay to entertain and that was about it. As travel grew and demand increased, employers had a NEED to hire. There were't many people qualified to pilot aircraft so pay had to be increase to create an incentive to move people in an aviator positions. This was the "golden" time in aviation. Now we have pilot factories spitting out qualified pilot by the dozen in a matter of months. The supply has been increased severely! While employers still need to hire they'll just decrease the hiring minimums in order to keep pay the same.

Would you not agree that the 1970's was the pinnacle of pilot pay and quality of life? Well then consider that there were FAR more pilots per capita and FAR fewer airline pilot positions in the 1970's. I'd love to hear your excuse for that?

ExpressJet is an example of a small correction when their wages adjusted downward.

Please tell me you didn't justify the ExpressJet pilots for rolling over like Possums and taking concessions. Considering how little RJ pilots are paid, especially the FO's who could not possibly buy a home or live even an average financial life on their own. These same ExpressJet pilots who always seemed to be the first to start criticizing the likes of Mesa, Chataqua, or any other bottom feeding regional carriers pilots, for not raising the bar? No airline pilot earning less than 50 grand a year should even be considering the idea of pay cuts. How pathetic!

 

[ePilot22]

I totally disagree. If I knew 10 years ago what I know now, and that is how little an airline pilot can expect to earn, and that most would be stuck at the despicable regional airlines their whole career, I would have saved a significant amount of money and foregone the 4 year degree and flight training. The opportunity to have a job which requires ZERO brains, ZERO education, ZERO responsibility, Zero stress, Zero time away from home, and get paid 40 grand to do it is a dream come true. But the way you speak of our so called profession, you make it sound like you feel our job fits the above description. And with unemployment at 10%, I disagree with your contention that no one wants those jobs!!


You wouldn't last two months in a job like that. Boredom would set in so quickly you would want to kill yourself. Zero brains = zero challenge, zero education = zero opportunity , zero responsibility = zero reward, there is no such thing a zero stress. Really grow up. Just quit your job, collect unemployment and drink heavily! That sounds like dream come true...


I don't appreciate being patronized.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. So where is that extra pay for a NYC based airline pilot? Oh thats right, we are talking about pilots here. They must have rolled over on their backs in the submissive position for management to have their way with them. Like every good little airline pilot who thinks that they are just paying their dues and one day they will make it to a Major soon. And you think I'm dumb!!! I bet you're one of those RJ guys who thinks you're going to get to that Major Airline I bet?


Do you bet? I couldn't tell.

Right now in NYC there may a greater need for receptionist than regional airline pilots, did that ever occur to you? Also how many of the NYC based pilots live in NYC? There's a difference between living there and being based there. Don't misunderstand anything here: Airlines benefit from employees commuting just as much as we do.

Even beyond all this, ask yourself: why do pilots work for Mesa, SkyWest, Republic or Mesaba? TSA was hiring at 250tt while SkyWest's minimums were 1000tt. Why would some "hold out" to work for SkyWest? My guess would be that pay isn't the only thing to consider when looking for a career within the airline industry.


Again, no reason for patronization.

These so called actors and actresses are the biggest waste on the face of the planet. Second to airline management. Plenty of the wannabes waiting tables over there can do just as "good" a job. They provide a meaningless service (providing entertainment) that society can manage without, whereas the service we provide (transporting people quickly over large distances) would be harder to live without. It is my assertion that this profit based economy causes an extremely unfair system of compensation for many labor groups. Not that it would ever happen, as the rich control every aspect of our lives, but a resource based economy is the only way humanity will get past the bottleneck that is preventing us as a people from moving beyond personal profit. As long as the likes of the bildeburger group control our lives, we will never advance as a people.


Again, here you're talking about your feelings and emotions. I can't debate with how you feel, because it isn't factual. Well it's a fact that you feel that way, but your feelings aren't facts. Have you ever heard of Karl Marx, I think he would agree with you. Maybe someday the poor will rise up and take it back from the rich! Although, my assertion is you don't really know what it is to be poor.


WHAT??? These "top" CEO's that have not been able to cumulatively turn a profit in the history of the airline industry?:laugh: These a** clowns are running this industry at a loss. And how do they get away with it? Just declare bankruptcy, throw out labor contracts, pensions, and pay pilots half of what they earned in years past while forcibly renegotiate with creditors? These CEO's are buffoons. The only thing they have mastered is incompetence. Coming from a rich family and having mommy and daddy pull their strings and get you in Harvard, Yale, or one of the several other schools that churn out these pathetic little blights of the planet, hardly makes them the best and the brightest of ANY industry. I would go so far as to say that I wouldn't consider these people the best and the brightest among even those getting supper down at the soup kitchen! It wasn't until this last quote from you that I realized you were off your rocker!


Then there must be something wrong with the industry? It would seem that if all the CEOs are producing the same result, there is a flaw in the design. I can think of one pretty quickly: U.S. Government and within that the F.A.A. and their OUTDATED Federal Aviation Regulations.


Would you not agree that the 1970's was the pinnacle of pilot pay and quality of life? Well then consider that there were FAR more pilots per capita and FAR fewer airline pilot positions in the 1970's. I'd love to hear your excuse for that?


I think your first sentence is based on assumption. How did you calculate, that is quantify, "quality of life"? Did you adjust pilot pay for inflation? Where are the printed facts that there were more qualified AIRLINE pilots than job openings? So I guess for now, I would NOT agree with the above. IF I did however, I would say that the market is in a constant balancing act. It may have been out of balance (equilibrium) for a period of time. Those things are possible, again see the recent housing market.


Please tell me you didn't justify the ExpressJet pilots for rolling over like Possums and taking concessions. Considering how little RJ pilots are paid, especially the FO's who could not possibly buy a home or live even an average financial life on their own. These same ExpressJet pilots who always seemed to be the first to start criticizing the likes of Mesa, Chataqua, or any other bottom feeding regional carriers pilots, for not raising the bar? No airline pilot earning less than 50 grand a year should even be considering the idea of pay cuts. How pathetic!


What is really pathetic is you. You lack knowledge and therefore understanding and yet you use what you don't know or understand to call others out. ExpressJet (as a whole, not just the pilots) took concession to SURVIVE! Earning 50K is still earning. I believe that when the time comes you'll see ExpressJet first to raise the bar.

What you truly need to understand is that we do not live in a perfectly free market. It is a controlled market. It's not perfect! The system has flaws, but then again who or what doesn't. There is a difference between theory and application. Academia and real world. We are human and life isn't fair. For every time you expect perfection from someone, someone should expect the same from you. Do you think you can deliver? I don't.

Relax and enjoy in life the things you can, or sit around pissed off at all the thing you can't, but you're going to die a lonely, bitter man if you pick the latter...







eP.

 

[kf4amu]

Heck, I'd pick up dead animals for nuthin'!

Freshly hit deer don't last long in my neck of the woods.

 

[pipejockey]

Also how many of the NYC based pilots live in NYC? There's a difference between living there and being based there. Don't misunderstand anything here: Airlines benefit from employees commuting just as much as we do.

My point exactly!! Unless you are a mainline Captain, you cannot afford what could be considered appropriate accommodations for an airline pilot in NYC. Unless you are lucky enough to find a woman who is stupid enough to be with a guy in which she must become the breadwinner since you can't as a pilot. That is of course as I said earlier, you are a mainline Captain. And yes, the airlines sure do benefit from commuters. Without commuters, where would they find the people to take these jobs at current pay. So you are forced to endure a grueling commute for a company that has absolutely no appreciation for what you do, because they refuse to pay a livable wage for the city you are based in. But I am sure you will come to the rescue of management and defend this abuse of the labor force.

Let me ask you this. Do you not feel that as an airline pilot, regardless of seniority or seat, you should at least be paid a wage that allow you to buy an average priced home in the city you are based in? Or do you support the statement made before congress by that dirtbag lowlife Peter Bowler from Eagle who after being questioned by a senator about pilots needing to commute due to the low pay said that the gate agents and baggage handlers live in NYC so the pilots should be able to find a way. Gee, I didn't think as a pilot I should have to live like the gate agents and baggage handlers. How do you think the CEO's would feel if we told them they should live hand to mouth and paycheck to paycheck like the pilots? And by the way, many of the baggage handlers, gate agents and fuelers earn more than many of the regional FO's. I can't imagine anyone with any kind of moral compass at all, could possibly justify this.

Again, here you're talking about your feelings and emotions. I can't debate with how you feel, because it isn't factual. Well it's a fact that you feel that way, but your feelings aren't facts. Have you ever heard of Karl Marx, I think he would agree with you. Maybe someday the poor will rise up and take it back from the rich! Although, my assertion is you don't really know what it is to be poor.

So I am not factual? In other words I am just simply wrong and you are right? Simple as that. I don't accept the status quo, and you do. How short sighted of you to completely dismiss the opposition. You speak as if Karl Marx was this big bad evil person because he fought for the rights of and spoke in support of labor. Workers in a capitalistic economic system become trapped in a vicious circle because the harder they work, the more resources in the natural world are appropriated for production, which leaves fewer resources for the workers to live on, so that they have to pay for their own livelihood out of their wages. When the very means of subsistence are commodities along with labor, their is no escape for the "wage slave."

When there are many airline pilots that have to work 200 to 300 years to earn what the CEO's and other members in the executive offices and upper management are given in just one year, then I say our current capitalistic system is broken! How can you possibly justify that kind of inequity? In the 1970's the average CEO earned 40 times that of their average labor, so basically you had to work a lifetime, 40 years is about an average working lifetime. Today, the CEO's are given 400 times the compensation that their average labor earns. So now we must work TEN working lifetimes to get what these crooks and pigs steal from us in just one year. There is absolutely no way any moral human being with any kind of conscience or sense of right and wrong can justify this. So compared to the bourgeoisie in our society, I am dirt poor! So I do know what it is like to be poor. Most of us do. If some of these CEO's were suddenly forced to live like some of their regional pilots, I guarantee it would drive some of them to suicide! Which wouldn't be a bad thing at all!

Then there must be something wrong with the industry? It would seem that if all the CEOs are producing the same result, there is a flaw in the design. I can think of one pretty quickly: U.S. Government and within that the F.A.A. and their OUTDATED Federal Aviation Regulations.

What?? Now you are going to blame the industry and not these people that should be so far superior to us peons, after all they are being compensated 200 to 300 times what we are, they should be able to use their superior mental acumen, the same acumen that they feel qualifies them to be paid 200 to 300 times that of an airline pilot, to fix the industry. Gee, if they can't charge the fares necessary to earn a profit for the company and not just themselves, how about cutting capacity until we can see an average fare of $400 bucks roundtrip where it should be in this day and age. It is not societies God given right to be able to afford air fare. Being Mr. Capitalist as you are, you should agree with that. If it meant half of us would lose our jobs, so be it! Supply and demand after all. I can fully support being told that my services are no longer needed and find something else to do. What I cannot accept is being told that my services are indeed needed and then being paid a pittance for the professionalism, performance, competence, and just about near perfection that is expected from me in this job.

And you want to blame the government as well? I have a feeling you are very young, and have not truly researched and come to your own conclusions on some of these things. You just regurgitate the status quo that the Rush Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's spew out. I will admit, I grew up an ultra conservative and a fan of the above types, an avid Ditto Head(if you are a Rush fan you will know what that means) but no more. It all changed when becoming involved in this profession and becoming intimately familiar with what should be considered the blatant criminal activity that corporate America gets away with, and the horrendous way they treat labor.

I think your first sentence is based on assumption. How did you calculate, that is quantify, "quality of life"? Did you adjust pilot pay for inflation? Where are the printed facts that there were more qualified AIRLINE pilots than job openings? So I guess for now, I would NOT agree with the above. IF I did however, I would say that the market is in a constant balancing act. It may have been out of balance (equilibrium) for a period of time. Those things are possible, again see the recent housing market.

Quality of life is based on among other things, how much time you spend on the job and the pay you receive for doing said job. Not too mention the difference in treatment we receive today as opposed to our predecessors, which has profoundly changed from the 1970's. As I said earlier, we have CEO's telling us that we should live lives similar to that of gate agents, baggage handlers and fuelers. If I knew that was how I'd be expected to live in this profession, I could have just dropped out of HS and saved a great deal of time, money, and effort, and just put in for one of the more menial and unskilled jobs. Silly of me to think I would receive a significant premium above and beyond what the other labor groups are paid.

I have already done my research on the above issues. And that is why I am so irate in how far our unions and our fellow pilots have sold out everybody that followed them in creating this disastrous industry and profession we now have today. A profession with no movement, no opportunity, and not much of a future. Unless you consider flying 35 to 100 seaters at a regional airline a successful outcome to this journey we all embarked on. Oh, and not being able to upgrade until we are in our 40's which is just the final insult. So much for enjoying ones youth. Living paycheck to paycheck is not what I had planned for. Adjusted for inflation a widebody captain would need to earn over 400 grand a year to equal what they were earning in the late 70's, and a first officer well over 200 grand. Even compared to the 1990's we are well short. Plus back then, only about 10% of the flights were regional flights, while today they make up 50% which means most people will be stuck at these miserable regional airlines. I can tell you have not done any wage comparisons to years past, because if you had, even you might be a little perturbed. I am well versed, thus the extent of my anger.

 

[pipejockey]

What is really pathetic is you. You lack knowledge and therefore understanding and yet you use what you don't know or understand to call others out. ExpressJet (as a whole, not just the pilots) took concession to SURVIVE! Earning 50K is still earning. I believe that when the time comes you'll see ExpressJet first to raise the bar.

I didn't realize you worked for expressjet. I am only assuming that based on the rage in your response. Is it not true you guys were the first to bring up your so called leading contract, just to fold like origami when all those smart managers came demanding concessions. It is my contention that 5 people with good jobs is better than 10 people with lousy jobs after concessions. It is not labors responsibility to do the same exact job for less because the geniuses in management can't figure out how to earn a profit. Don't you agree that they should be at or near genius level considering how much higher they are paid than us? I mean come on, for the several hundred thousand dollars to several million dollars a year that all of these executives and many of the upper managers receive should get us a lot better performance than merely coming to labor with their grimy, greasy, filthy little hands out to labor asking us to do more for less.

50 grand?? HAHA! Not as an FO you're not. And please don't tell me you are counting your 6 grand a year per diem in that number. Per diem is to compensate us for the excessive expenses we have on the road. You're stuck at a hotel having to buy a 15 buck hotel burger, 2 bucks for a stinking glass of soda, 10 to 15 for a salad! Over 400 bucks for tips for these van drivers to take your damn bag out of the van (real hard work there). Now compared to someone who has a normal job in which they are home every night, and who can bring a lunch with them to work if they choose, something we can't, causes us to have to spend significantly more for food. So it is not a fair comparison to include your per diem when comparing our pay to others. Also, take out all the over time you work, which many of us either can't do, or don't have the opportunity to do, plus take out your 401K company match which you won't see until 65, and then tell me what you have left. Basically take 75 hours a month, which is 900 hours a year and tell me what you have. Some have personal issues that come up requiring us to take a few trips off a year for family reasons, sick calls, vacation, etc.
I am just saying you need to be more realistic, and know that most are not going to be able to work every trip in their line then work as many OT days as allowable. Because that is the only way you will get to 50 grand as an FO. BTW, I hope you actually aren't working OT with guys furloughed. The company should be staffed to a level where OT should not be needed when they tell you they are overstaffed and lay guys off right?

And I bet your idea of raising the bar will be a rate that is $3 or so higher than the next. These current wages are so low, hourly rates would have to be raised $30 an hour for FO's and at least $15 for Captains.

 

[ePilot22]

My point exactly!! Unless you are a mainline Captain, you cannot afford what could be considered appropriate accommodations for an airline pilot in NYC. Unless you are lucky enough to find a woman who is stupid enough to be with a guy in which she must become the breadwinner since you can't as a pilot. That is of course as I said earlier, you are a mainline Captain. And yes, the airlines sure do benefit from commuters. Without commuters, where would they find the people to take these jobs at current pay. So you are forced to endure a grueling commute for a company that has absolutely no appreciation for what you do, because they refuse to pay a livable wage for the city you are based in. But I am sure you will come to the rescue of management and defend this abuse of the labor force.

Let me ask you this. Do you not feel that as an airline pilot, regardless of seniority or seat, you should at least be paid a wage that allow you to buy an average priced home in the city you are based in? Or do you support the statement made before congress by that dirtbag lowlife Peter Bowler from Eagle who after being questioned by a senator about pilots needing to commute due to the low pay said that the gate agents and baggage handlers live in NYC so the pilots should be able to find a way. Gee, I didn't think as a pilot I should have to live like the gate agents and baggage handlers. How do you think the CEO's would feel if we told them they should live hand to mouth and paycheck to paycheck like the pilots? And by the way, many of the baggage handlers, gate agents and fuelers earn more than many of the regional FO's. I can't imagine anyone with any kind of moral compass at all, could possibly justify this.


OK, I understand now! You have Battered Woman's Syndrome (except more like Battered Employee Syndrome). What you'll need to do is leave your relationship with management and seek an Employee's Shelter. If your state doesn't have one, write your governor or maybe even the president. Also go to your local court house and file for a restraining order against your management. I'm truly happy you haven't had any children with management yet! One less person to suffer the abuses of management. Then seek some counseling. This is a critical step, if you skip this one, the cycle will continue and you'll just be molested by management again. If you can, google "Dr. Phil", write him, maybe he can help you and bring your plight to a large public audience. Who knows you might actually help millions with your story of abuse, neglect and molestation from the hands of management...:erm:

Where is YOUR responsibility in this? How come you surrender all of the control you have in this situation to management. It's management's fault the pay me crap. It's management's fault I'm based in BFI. It's management's fault that my career isn't going the way I wanted it to. Geez, it seems like you expect management to do everything FOR you. Did they refuse to wipe your as$ after you $hit? Grow the fu(k up!



So I am not factual? In other words I am just simply wrong and you are right? Simple as that. I don't accept the status quo, and you do. How short sighted of you to completely dismiss the opposition. You speak as if Karl Marx was this big bad evil person because he fought for the rights of and spoke in support of labor. Workers in a capitalistic economic system become trapped in a vicious circle because the harder they work, the more resources in the natural world are appropriated for production, which leaves fewer resources for the workers to live on, so that they have to pay for their own livelihood out of their wages. When the very means of subsistence are commodities along with labor, their is no escape for the "wage slave."

When there are many airline pilots that have to work 200 to 300 years to earn what the CEO's and other members in the executive offices and upper management are given in just one year, then I say our current capitalistic system is broken! How can you possibly justify that kind of inequity? In the 1970's the average CEO earned 40 times that of their average labor, so basically you had to work a lifetime, 40 years is about an average working lifetime. Today, the CEO's are given 400 times the compensation that their average labor earns. So now we must work TEN working lifetimes to get what these crooks and pigs steal from us in just one year. There is absolutely no way any moral human being with any kind of conscience or sense of right and wrong can justify this. So compared to the bourgeoisie in our society, I am dirt poor! So I do know what it is like to be poor. Most of us do. If some of these CEO's were suddenly forced to live like some of their regional pilots, I guarantee it would drive some of them to suicide! Which wouldn't be a bad thing at all!


What are you smoking when you read my posts? Do you actually read them? I didn't say anything bad about Karl Marx. All I said is that he would agree with you. You must feel that he's bad and that the association I made with your thoughts and his writings is somehow bad? I don't know, I don't care.

You don't know poor. You have a computer. I don't know to many poor people that have access to a computer and internet. Let alone to money to afford the ratings you have.



What?? Now you are going to blame the industry and not these people that should be so far superior to us peons, after all they are being compensated 200 to 300 times what we are, they should be able to use their superior mental acumen, the same acumen that they feel qualifies them to be paid 200 to 300 times that of an airline pilot, to fix the industry. Gee, if they can't charge the fares necessary to earn a profit for the company and not just themselves, how about cutting capacity until we can see an average fare of $400 bucks roundtrip where it should be in this day and age. It is not societies God given right to be able to afford air fare. Being Mr. Capitalist as you are, you should agree with that. If it meant half of us would lose our jobs, so be it! Supply and demand after all. I can fully support being told that my services are no longer needed and find something else to do. What I cannot accept is being told that my services are indeed needed and then being paid a pittance for the professionalism, performance, competence, and just about near perfection that is expected from me in this job.

And you want to blame the government as well? I have a feeling you are very young, and have not truly researched and come to your own conclusions on some of these things. You just regurgitate the status quo that the Rush Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's spew out. I will admit, I grew up an ultra conservative and a fan of the above types, an avid Ditto Head(if you are a Rush fan you will know what that means) but no more. It all changed when becoming involved in this profession and becoming intimately familiar with what should be considered the blatant criminal activity that corporate America gets away with, and the horrendous way they treat labor.



Quality of life is based on among other things, how much time you spend on the job and the pay you receive for doing said job. Not too mention the difference in treatment we receive today as opposed to our predecessors, which has profoundly changed from the 1970's. As I said earlier, we have CEO's telling us that we should live lives similar to that of gate agents, baggage handlers and fuelers. If I knew that was how I'd be expected to live in this profession, I could have just dropped out of HS and saved a great deal of time, money, and effort, and just put in for one of the more menial and unskilled jobs. Silly of me to think I would receive a significant premium above and beyond what the other labor groups are paid.

I have already done my research on the above issues. And that is why I am so irate in how far our unions and our fellow pilots have sold out everybody that followed them in creating this disastrous industry and profession we now have today. A profession with no movement, no opportunity, and not much of a future. Unless you consider flying 35 to 100 seaters at a regional airline a successful outcome to this journey we all embarked on. Oh, and not being able to upgrade until we are in our 40's which is just the final insult. So much for enjoying ones youth. Living paycheck to paycheck is not what I had planned for. Adjusted for inflation a widebody captain would need to earn over 400 grand a year to equal what they were earning in the late 70's, and a first officer well over 200 grand. Even compared to the 1990's we are well short. Plus back then, only about 10% of the flights were regional flights, while today they make up 50% which means most people will be stuck at these miserable regional airlines. I can tell you have not done any wage comparisons to years past, because if you had, even you might be a little perturbed. I am well versed, thus the extent of my anger.

I'm done here. Your postings are a joke, but they're not even close to funny. Sad really. You said you were interested in discussing economics. You're not. Good luck in life.







eP.

 

[ePilot22]

I didn't realize you worked for expressjet. I am only assuming that based on the rage in your response. Is it not true you guys were the first to bring up your so called leading contract, just to fold like origami when all those smart managers came demanding concessions. It is my contention that 5 people with good jobs is better than 10 people with lousy jobs after concessions. It is not labors responsibility to do the same exact job for less because the geniuses in management can't figure out how to earn a profit. Don't you agree that they should be at or near genius level considering how much higher they are paid than us? I mean come on, for the several hundred thousand dollars to several million dollars a year that all of these executives and many of the upper managers receive should get us a lot better performance than merely coming to labor with their grimy, greasy, filthy little hands out to labor asking us to do more for less.

50 grand?? HAHA! Not as an FO you're not. And please don't tell me you are counting your 6 grand a year per diem in that number. Per diem is to compensate us for the excessive expenses we have on the road. You're stuck at a hotel having to buy a 15 buck hotel burger, 2 bucks for a stinking glass of soda, 10 to 15 for a salad! Over 400 bucks for tips for these van drivers to take your damn bag out of the van (real hard work there). Now compared to someone who has a normal job in which they are home every night, and who can bring a lunch with them to work if they choose, something we can't, causes us to have to spend significantly more for food. So it is not a fair comparison to include your per diem when comparing our pay to others. Also, take out all the over time you work, which many of us either can't do, or don't have the opportunity to do, plus take out your 401K company match which you won't see until 65, and then tell me what you have left. Basically take 75 hours a month, which is 900 hours a year and tell me what you have. Some have personal issues that come up requiring us to take a few trips off a year for family reasons, sick calls, vacation, etc.
I am just saying you need to be more realistic, and know that most are not going to be able to work every trip in their line then work as many OT days as allowable. Because that is the only way you will get to 50 grand as an FO. BTW, I hope you actually aren't working OT with guys furloughed. The company should be staffed to a level where OT should not be needed when they tell you they are overstaffed and lay guys off right?

And I bet your idea of raising the bar will be a rate that is $3 or so higher than the next. These current wages are so low, hourly rates would have to be raised $30 an hour for FO's and at least $15 for Captains.

Rage? Wow! In three sentences, you ASSUme I have rage? Maybe you should be a psychologist. If it helps with your assumption of my rage, I don't work for ExpressJet. Never even applied. However, I find it ironic that you bash one of the only pilot groups to raise the bar and unite together against management while all you do is complain and talk $hit about them.

What type of aircraft does ExpressJet fly?


Again, I'm finished here. Buy a lottery ticket. Good luck in life.









eP.