Matthew Berson Salary $33,750

[redflyer65]

Sad state of affairs for sure. The downward pressure from management continues. New bonuses for them?

 

[wms]

How does an infantry corporal make 49K? They must include all benefits.

 

[DC8Driver]

Ohh man this guy must be a Capt! he is making some cash. Another blow to our career has been achieved when an AIRLINE PILOT responsible for lives makes the same wage as a shoe shiner and the "dead animal operator". FYI TSA agents at year 4 make 31K without overtime and not including benefits. Average longevity for an FO in the "new" airline world of E190s, I would venture to say is about 3 years. (Who looks like the uneducated one?)


Matthew Berson - Regional Airline Pilot - Salary $33,750
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/salaries/

Looks like he is making $33,750 more than you.

 

[DC8Driver]

It's a shame how I am the only one who at least voices ideas on how to correct the situation. All the rest of you can do is throw blame around. News flash, we are all to blame. From the top down. Now lets fix it.

Because your the one living in a fantasy world.

Yes, lets MAKE them pay more. Anyone tell you they (the airlines) are going broke?

It's a business and your a service provider. Your services are not in high demand now or in the forseeable future. Get a grip.

 

[ePilot22]

It's a shame how I am the only one who at least voices ideas on how to correct the situation. All the rest of you can do is throw blame around. News flash, we are all to blame. From the top down. Now lets fix it.

Supply and demand. Simple.

Right now pilots are a dime-a-dozen, jobs are not. Pressure on wages is downward. As pilots become scarce and job opening become excessive, pressure on wages is upwards. Follow.

The way around this for employers is to lower the hiring minimums. Which in turn opens the supply doors for more pilots to flow through. By raising the hiring minimums an employer can artificially close the supply door WITHOUT increasing pay. There is still an excessive number of pilot, but less will qualify to even be hired. So employer can control what they pay.

When we have a REAL shortage of pilots, that is, lower hiring minimums and no available pilot to fill those seats THEN employers will pay more to attract pilots to work for them.

So if you really want to solve the problem you might need to eliminate a few thousand pilots now or...

Age 65 will happen in late 2012 (if the world still exist 12/21/2012) through 2013. Without student pilot and commercial pilot applicants the bottom will dry up and a REAL shortage should follow. Right now foreign carriers are hiring U.S. pilots because they are short on pilots within their own country so most likely we won't see U.S. carriers hiring foreign pilots to fly our planes. Again continuing the REAL shortage here. Wages will have to go up, maybe not 1960-70's level, but upward.

Feel better?







eP.

 

[777forever]

Supply and demand. Simple.

Right now pilots are a dime-a-dozen, jobs are not. Pressure on wages is downward. As pilots become scarce and job opening become excessive, pressure on wages is upwards. Follow.

The way around this for employers is to lower the hiring minimums. Which in turn opens the supply doors for more pilots to flow through. By raising the hiring minimums an employer can artificially close the supply door WITHOUT increasing pay. There is still an excessive number of pilot, but less will qualify to even be hired. So employer can control what they pay.

When we have a REAL shortage of pilots, that is, lower hiring minimums and no available pilot to fill those seats THEN employers will pay more to attract pilots to work for them.

So if you really want to solve the problem you might need to eliminate a few thousand pilots now or...

Age 65 will happen in late 2012 (if the world still exist 12/21/2012) through 2013. Without student pilot and commercial pilot applicants the bottom will dry up and a REAL shortage should follow. Right now foreign carriers are hiring U.S. pilots because they are short on pilots within their own country so most likely we won't see U.S. carriers hiring foreign pilots to fly our planes. Again continuing the REAL shortage here. Wages will have to go up, maybe not 1960-70's level, but upward.

Feel better?







eP.

I've been telling people that for years but pilots, especially forum-happy pilots, tend to blow off any positive thought and continue to hold within and spread a colossal amount of negativity.

When the time comes they will see that all that stressing and doom and glooming was for absolutely nothing. Glad I don't live life that way. Positive thinking, it takes you a long way in life.

 

[ePilot22]

Economics 101











eP.

 

[pipejockey]

Because your the one living in a fantasy world.

Yes, lets MAKE them pay more. Anyone tell you they (the airlines) are going broke?

It's a business and your a service provider. Your services are not in high demand now or in the forseeable future. Get a grip.

Yeah yeah, so it is our problem that the management teams in this industry can't figure out how to earn a profit. So you take the problem on your shoulders and work for less. Another news flash, we are labor and provide a service that doesn't automatically become less valuable because the pig sh*t that fills the offices of management can't figure out how to earn a profit. When every one keeps trying to undercut the next, the fares will remain low. Consider hypothetically of course, if every airline charged the same exact fare for the same city pairings. You will find that without a lower cost competitor to go to, people will pay quite a bit more to travel when they have no choice. But you will always have the bottom feeder cut fares to gain market share.

When you have an industry that is paying its pilot labor the horrifically low wages that are out there today, then it is hight time to make some radical changes that will allow for fares which will allow the pilot labor force to earn appropriate wages. Do you know a receptionist in NYC earns about $20 an hour, and that for a 40 hour week. What do half of the regional airline pilots
working out of NYC earn for a 35 to 40 hour duty week? Certainly not what the receptionist is getting. So spare me the tiring "supply and demand" non sense. That goes for goods and services, not human resources. I am sure their are a huge number of people who would love a receptionists job at $20 an hour, huge supply, little demand, but it doesnt seem to keep their wages down. Same with these screen actors. Every waiter, waitress etc in LA is a actor, actress, tv personality wannabe. Gobs of supply with very little demand, and once again, their wages certainly are not down.

You want to talk about getting a grip? When a pilot group walks off the job in the name of self help, then the sludge in management will be forced to get a grip for the first time since 2001. Who will that pilot group be? I sure wish I could have the honor!

 

[hockeypilot44]

I read that Michael Moore's new movie looks at commuter jet pilots.

 

[ePilot22]

Yeah yeah, so it is our problem that the management teams in this industry can't figure out how to earn a profit. So you take the problem on your shoulders and work for less. Another news flash, we are labor and provide a service that doesn't automatically become less valuable because the pig sh*t that fills the offices of management can't figure out how to earn a profit. When every one keeps trying to undercut the next, the fares will remain low. Consider hypothetically of course, if every airline charged the same exact fare for the same city pairings. You will find that without a lower cost competitor to go to, people will pay quite a bit more to travel when they have no choice. But you will always have the bottom feeder cut fares to gain market share.

When you have an industry that is paying its pilot labor the horrifically low wages that are out there today, then it is hight time to make some radical changes that will allow for fares which will allow the pilot labor force to earn appropriate wages. Do you know a receptionist in NYC earns about $20 an hour, and that for a 40 hour week. What do half of the regional airline pilots working out of NYC earn for a 35 to 40 hour duty week? Certainly not what the receptionist is getting. So spare me the tiring "supply and demand" non sense. That goes for goods and services, not human resources. I am sure their are a huge number of people who would love a receptionists job at $20 an hour, huge supply, little demand, but it doesnt seem to keep their wages down. Same with these screen actors. Every waiter, waitress etc in LA is a actor, actress, tv personality wannabe. Gobs of supply with very little demand, and once again, their wages certainly are not down.

You want to talk about getting a grip? When a pilot group walks off the job in the name of self help, then the sludge in management will be forced to get a grip for the first time since 2001. Who will that pilot group be? I sure wish I could have the honor!

^^See the problem is you don't qualify to be a receptionist.





Your whole post is based on your emotions, not facts. It seems as though you are the one spewing the non-sense.


Human resources are no different that any other resource. Energy = supply and demand. Food = supply and demand. Pilots = supply and demand.

Your examples lack so much. Do you know the difference between subjective and objective? Ever heard of ISO9000? C.P.A.? M.B.A.? A.T.P.? M.D.?

Speaking of M.D. or R.N., that is a career you might want to look into! There is already a HUGE shortage of both doctors and nurses and this is before "free health care" for all. The pay will skyrocket within this industry. Maybe you should try your luck there, their or they're...?







eP.

 

[ePilot22]

I read that Michael Moore's new movie looks at commuter jet pilots.

The only time that fat bastard weights 190lbs is when he's on a commuter jet.








eP.

 

[pipejockey]

^^See the problem is you don't qualify to be a receptionist.

Your whole post is based on your emotions, not facts. It seems as though you are the one spewing the non-sense.


Human resources are no different that any other resource. Energy = supply and demand. Food = supply and demand. Pilots = supply and demand.

Your examples lack so much. Do you know the difference between subjective and objective? Ever heard of ISO9000? C.P.A.? M.B.A.? A.T.P.? M.D.?

Speaking of M.D. or R.N., that is a career you might want to look into! There is already a HUGE shortage of both doctors and nurses and this is before "free health care" for all. The pay will skyrocket within this industry. Maybe you should try your luck there, their or they're...?
eP.

Ah yes, I don't qualify to be a receptionist because I misspelled "there" while typing quickly and not proof reading a message on a freaking message board. What an a s shole you are!! Oh, and the space between the a, s, and s is intentional and not a misspelling you pos.

So for all you supply and demand wackos, how about explaining why THERE is and always will be a glut of people who can stand around on the red carpet and spew "what are you wearing" and morons who pretend to be people they are not on stage and screen and all these other pathetic actor, actress wannabes yet pay remains astronomical. In addition, no one has justified paying a receptionist 20 bucks an hour in NYC when unemployment is 10% and their are plenty of people to do the job for less, a menial job at that. Let me guess, I assume you think an airline pilot is a menial job as well and we don't deserve what a receptionist makes. What a buffoon you are.

I will say it again. What one is paid for THEIR jobs should not be dependent on merely how many others are available to do your job. What a simplistic and naive way of thinking. And funny you mention MBA's. Go check how many MBA's we have in this country, then check how many CEO positions THERE are available. Now explain why we need to tolerate CEO's getting 7 and 8 figure salaries? By the way, some of these fast food joints can't ever keep staffed because no one wants the job, and I don't see THEIR pay running very high.

 

[ePilot22]

Ah yes, I don't qualify to be a receptionist because I misspelled "there" while typing quickly and not proof reading a message on a freaking message board. What an a s shole you are!! Oh, and the space between the a, s, and s is intentional and not a misspelling you pos.

So for all you supply and demand wackos, how about explaining why THERE is and always will be a glut of people who can stand around on the red carpet and spew "what are you wearing" and morons who pretend to be people they are not on stage and screen and all these other pathetic actor, actress wannabes yet pay remains astronomical. In addition, no one has justified paying a receptionist 20 bucks an hour in NYC when unemployment is 10% and their are plenty of people to do the job for less, a menial job at that. Let me guess, I assume you think an airline pilot is a menial job as well and we don't deserve what a receptionist makes. What a buffoon you are.

I will say it again. What one is paid for THEIR jobs should not be dependent on merely how many others are available to do your job. What a simplistic and naive way of thinking. And funny you mention MBA's. Go check how many MBA's we have in this country, then check how many CEO positions THERE are available. Now explain why we need to tolerate CEO's getting 7 and 8 figure salaries? By the way, some of these fast food joints can't ever keep staffed because no one wants the job, and I don't see THEIR pay running very high.

Just to clairify you didn't misspell THEIR, you used the wrong word. It doesn't matter you don't get, you're not going to get it and I'm not going to try.

Believe what you will...







eP.

 

[airplane wizard]

Sad, the doorman at a hotel makes more than a pilot.

DOORMAN!!!!!!!

So does the "Dead Animal Operator." What ever he does??LOL

Lonnie Wade Jr.

(56)
Dead Animal Operator, Department of Public Works
Washington, D.C.
$38,000

 

[pipejockey]

Just to clairify you didn't misspell THEIR, you used the wrong word. It doesn't matter you don't get, you're not going to get it and I'm not going to try.

Believe what you will...
eP.

I want to get it. So please don't duck the question. You seem to be well schooled on supply and demand so explain how my assertion in bold below can exist.

So for all you supply and demand wackos, how about explaining why THERE is and always will be a glut of people who can stand around on the red carpet and spew "what are you wearing" and morons who pretend to be people they are not on stage and screen and all these other pathetic actor, actress wannabes yet pay remains astronomical. In addition, how can anyone justify paying a receptionist 20 bucks an hour in NYC when unemployment is 10% and there are plenty of people to do the job for less, a menial job at that. Let me guess, I assume you think an airline pilot is a menial job as well and we don't deserve what a receptionist makes.

Ok, please school me about supply and demand concerning the above statement.

Thank you for your time.

 

[pipejockey]

I mean really ePilot, how can you justify airline pilots earning no more than a "dead animal operator" by condoning and furthering the supply and demand concept. I mean come on, a dead animal operator? The putz picks up and disposes of dead animals!! And he's earning more than most regional FO's. If thats this country's idea of capitalism, I want no part of the new capitalism we are experiencing in this country. One in which an FO needs to work over 200 years to earn what the pile of pig sh*t sitting in the executive suite is given in compensation in one year!!

 

[Stifler's Mom]

So does the "Dead Animal Operator." What ever he does??LOL

Lonnie Wade Jr.

(56)
Dead Animal Operator, Department of Public Works
Washington, D.C.
$38,000

Poor Lonnie is seriously underpaid. I was out for a bike ride last week and came across a dead deer on the side of the road. It had some buzzards and tons of flies on it. When I caught a whiff of that thing as it cooked in the summer heat, I just about crashed on the side of the road from the smell.

 

[Tarzan]

So for all you supply and demand wackos, how about explaining why THERE is and always will be a glut of people who can stand around on the red carpet and spew "what are you wearing" and morons who pretend to be people they are not on stage and screen and all these other pathetic actor, actress wannabes yet pay remains astronomical. In addition, how can anyone justify paying a receptionist 20 bucks an hour in NYC when unemployment is 10% and there are plenty of people to do the job for less, a menial job at that. Let me guess, I assume you think an airline pilot is a menial job as well and we don't deserve what a receptionist makes.

I had to read your post a couple of times to figure out what you after but I think I understand what you are after. For the actors, the reason they able to realize as much as they do is many of these people are born something most us don't have. Just like football players that are paid huge sums while there are tens of thousands who want to do it too. Certainly not supply and demand as you have formulated yet, there is a supply and demand side. The people with the talent and ability to perform at these high levels don't have an abundance availability to pull from. If we were all NFL caliber players, the pay wouldn't be all that great if the NFL even existed at all. Apply the same mindset to acting. While I am of the belief that most of those folks don't live on the same planet as the rest of us, they do possess an ability and a charisma that most us do not have hence they are able to realize more for their labor. This counts plus the amount of money that can made in movies can be staggering unlike what pilots make for a single flight.

You may not like it but it is the fact of life that if there is a glut of equally able people to do a job, the pay will be low because there always be someone who work for a little bit less. So far as wackos go, you may be closer than those you understand this. You obviously discout human nature being what it is. Add this to the mix that if all the pay was the same, what incentive would anyone have to work harder to get a bigger peice of the cake? Once again, like it or not, this basic tenant of business makes the world go around and is the mother of invention. People who want it, will work harder than others to attain jobs and positions that make them wealthier just like you worked harder than most to be an airline pilot. Captain pay at regional is about 85% of the rest of the jobs out there. That is just how it is. Now there aren't many pilots in the pipe for airline jobs. Why? The pay isn't enough to justify all the anguish to get here. Plenty of guy would but why if the pay isn't there?

 

[Tarzan]

If thats this country's idea of capitalism, I want no part of the new capitalism we are experiencing in this country.

There is nothing new about this idea. It has been like this long before you were born and will be like this long after we all depart.

Would you perfer we all make the same amount of money regardless of what we do for a living? What reason would you have to put in your time and effort to be a pilot if you were capped at $40K a year for the rest of your career? Being gone from home, wife and kids? None!

 

[ePilot22]

I mean really ePilot, how can you justify airline pilots earning no more than a "dead animal operator" by condoning and furthering the supply and demand concept. I mean come on, a dead animal operator? The putz picks up and disposes of dead animals!! And he's earning more than most regional FO's. If thats this country's idea of capitalism, I want no part of the new capitalism we are experiencing in this country. One in which an FO needs to work over 200 years to earn what the pile of pig sh*t sitting in the executive suite is given in compensation in one year!!

Ok. I cannot possibly cover every occupation out there, so I'm hoping you'll be able to apply some of what is here to the bigger picture.

You are also asking very complex questions without a basic understanding of economics. What I write below is lacking a lot! I know this, you will not. It doesn't matter though. At the end I will leave you with a good place to start if you're really interested in knowing, if not, STOP asking stupid questions!

I'm going to start small:

Dead Animal Collectors, Garbage Collectors, Port-A-Potty Cleaners, etc., are going to be paid well because nobody wants those jobs. Since there is very little supply (human resource) and there is a demand (need) to have these services provided - pay must increase. Also these types of jobs don't really require an education so anyone can be a part in the supply. This means the pay has to be higher than another job that doesn't require an education, but is much better job to do. That is, flipping burgers at McDonalds isn't that bad of job when compared to pick up dead animals, hence you would want more money to pick up dead animals than to flip burgers.

Are you with me so far?

Now take a look at locations. You've tried to compare a receptionist's pay in NYC to a regional airline pilot pay. That comparison is apples to oranges. Take a look at receptionist pay in Scotts Bluff, NE and compare it to NYC. You'll see that the NYC receptionist makes more because it cost more to live in NYC. Now I'm a receptionist looking for a job and there are two openings both requiring the same set of job skills/labor/hours etc, and I don't have a preference on where I would like to live. I think we both can agree it will cost more to (rent an apartment/buy a house, insure a car, buy food) live NYC then Scotts Bluff, NE. So if I take a NYC, I'm going to require money than in NE. An employer in NYC needs to hire someone to be a receptionist and they offer the same hourly rate as an employer in NE. Which job would you take? Your money will go farther in NE, or in other words, you'll get more "bang for your buck". The employer in NYC will have to pay more to attract an employee in/to NYC.

Still there?

There was a question that I asked you that you never answered. Do you know the difference between SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE? Art work is subjective. Math is objective. Acting is subjective. Piloting is objective. Anybody can say they are an actor, maybe even get paid to act, but that doesn't mean anything.

I have a friend that wanted to be a model. He went to modeling school and had pictures taken. He did runway shows and fashion shoots. He could not however make a real living doing it. It also cost him quite a lot of money. Keep in mind he still had to invest something into this occupation. Everybody does, why, because nothings free!

So what does this have to do with anything?

Let us say that I invested $50,000 for my certificates and ratings (Commercial, Multi-Land, CFIi and MEI) I earned my 1500 hrs and got hired by a regional airline XYZ. XYZ was hiring with 1000tt and 150me and paid $19.25/hr. I was hired objectively.

My buddy invests $50,000 into becoming a model. He pays for modeling lessons, head shots, teeth implants, whatever models need. ABC modeling agency is hiring models. What do they use as criteria for hiring? Good looks? A certain number of fashion shoots? Runway jobs? He will get hired subjectively. (Here you can change this to an actor, an artist, a writer etc.)

Now supply and demand.

Anybody can act. Not everybody is "good" at it ("good" being subjective). So there is a supply of "actors", but demand for "good actors". Again the same goes for artist and so on. When you are a "good actor" you can command the pay you want (or what someone is willing to pay). For example; WB and FOX are both scripting a movie. They can cast whoever they like, known or unknown actors, but will have to pay more for what audiences want to see (again very subjective). Since Bruce Willis is who everyone wants to see right now, WB and FOX now have a small supply to draw from and will have to pay more for him. Nameless Joe can act pretty well so FOX cast him instead because the fat cats want to keep more profit for themselves. Now the movie doesn't make as much as WB's movie, FOX should have paid Bruce more.

People also like their entertainment more than traveling safely, hence they VALUE (read pay more $, willing to spend more $) entertainment more than travel. If I as a employer see a high demand for my product (entertainment) I'm going to charge more for it. As people pay more they'll expect better entertainment, so I'll have to hirer better people who will demand more because the supply of people at that caliber is smaller. And on and on.

That last example works with CEO and management people as well. United and Delta both compete for a top CEO (in theory, because we all know Tilton SUCKS!). They are not only looking for the best within the aviation industry, but every industry. They are looking for someone who can run a billion dollar company. Those kind of people are VERY rare and can command very high salaries.

Now back to us, pilots.

We are hired based on hours flown and some flying skill (which is set to a national standard -objective). In the early days of aviation there were't many pilots, or flying public for that matter. Pilots would get minimal pay to entertain and that was about it. As travel grew and demand increased, employers had a NEED to hire. There were't many people qualified to pilot aircraft so pay had to be increase to create an incentive to move people in an aviator positions. This was the "golden" time in aviation. Now we have pilot factories spitting out qualified pilot by the dozen in a matter of months. The supply has been increased severely! While employers still need to hire they'll just decrease the hiring minimums in order to keep pay the same. Just as FOX hired a lesser known actor or United a POS CEO when compared to the total supply of applicants.

Now assume that demand is fixed. That is it will stay at a set value (for our discussion here).

Certification is a double edge sword. It sets a minimum standard. That minimum standard limits entry into the supply which would increase demand. Add to the supply and demand decreases. Doctors, Nurses, Pilots, Certified Public Accounts, Certified Financial Planners, High School Diploma, Master Degree, etc. are all certified, they are an agreed upon standard with acceptance. Each restricts the supply a little more. It use to be that having a BS/BA was good enough to command a higher salary, but not any more. The same goes for pilots. As more people acquire that certification the larger the supply becomes the less demand there is for that type of certification.


Currently we have a unlimited supply of pilot for a limited demand. This drives our wages down. When the demand rises and supply dwindles, our wages will go up. Hopefully that time will come, but you cannot force it to come earlier or under false pretenses. The supply and demand equilibrium (market) will correct itself. Take a look at housing prices. That is a perfect example of market correction and adjustment that you can plainly see because it got so far off track that it had a huge impact. Smaller market corrections might never be felt or even known. ExpressJet is an example of a small correction when their wages adjusted downward.


I'm no Alan Greenspan or Bernanke and this isn't close to a real discussion of Economics, Supply and Demand, but it will hopefully provide you with some understanding.

If not, go to the library and check out: Basic Economics, A Citizen's Guide to the Ecomony. By Thomas Sowell.

That would be a good start, good luck.







eP.