Master Senority List

[BlackPilot628]

We all have been going through quite a bit a problems over the last 3 years. Problems from different unions etc.

Having a couple of UAL guys on the jumpseat most of them always bring up and recommend that we all go to one union and have a master Seniority List.
What are your thoughts and what would be the pro's and con's?

 

[filejw]

Don't think a national list would work and it has been talked about in the past.But one contract would.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

A Brand scope clause would fix some of the problems. At the moment, this is probably the only obtainable goal. We need to stop the outsourcing of our jobs first before we can fight for the other stuff.

Pros: Once you get hired at a regional, you have made it to the mainline; still want to work for 17K? What is happening at XJT right now, would have less impact with brand scope.

Cons: Furloughed mainline pilots will flow back into regional jobs. This will cause major problems for some current regional pilots.

 

[atlcrashpad]

What good would a National Senority list do? You could look at a UAL guy who is junior to a SkyWest guy? I don't see where this would benefit anyone. I do see how you could look at the list and kick yourself in the A$$ for not applying to a certain carrier.

 

[EOpilot]

See my posts in this thread: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=68861&page=6

A national seniority list would punish pilots at successful carriers. But a national pilots guild flying under one contract, as someone else alluded to, would be a much better solution.

 

[atlcrashpad]

I would agree with a contract nationally. It would keep labor and management in check.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

See my posts in this thread: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=68861&page=6

A national seniority list would punish pilots at successful carriers. But a national pilots guild flying under one contract, as someone else alluded to, would be a much better solution.

Can't have your cake and eat it too...

The call for a National Sen list and National contract are loudest during tought times. They are deafening during our Perfect Storm.

National Sen list.- As a legacy carrier pilot would you like a senior freight dog or regional pilot to take your job because he was senior to you on the National List...

National Contract- We all loved the DAL contract in 2001(?) because it was just a bit better than the industry leading UAL 2000 contract. We use each others contract to lift us to a higher level... The downside is this can work against us during the tough times. Management says.. See! Look at those pilots, they gave up thier pensions and you have to too.

Accept a national contract if you are content to have your pay as is in good times and bad.

In good times, your company may have higher than average growth and profits, but your pay would stay in line with the national contract. How'd you like to know that you could have higher pay rates at your carrier but you were limited to a lower rate via a national contract.. Now that is unity!!

Decide what you want. And live with it. Also know that we are in a Perfect Storm. Should we make changes because we are in the Perfect Storm or should we weather it and know we have a system in place that works. Or a little of both.....???

 

[Publishers]

The only reason that ALPA and the other big pilot unions got going was regulation of the industry. Without that, all these ideas are just going to wave in the wind.
The whole reason it is talked about is that some think that there would automatically be a higher pay rate across the board. That is not going to happen.
Deregualtion means that new companies will form, the employees can elect or not elect a union, can elect or not elect a specific union, and can set pay rates that are at that company and may or may not be the same as some other company. This concept died with deregulation of the airline industry.

 

[EOpilot]

Can't have your cake and eat it too...

I guess you didn't read my posts in the link I posted. I don't have any cake to eat. I'm out of flying now. Two carriers down the tubes and a family that needs me here has forced me to compromise my career path.

In good times, your company may have higher than average growth and profits, but your pay would stay in line with the national contract. How'd you like to know that you could have higher pay rates at your carrier but you were limited to a lower rate via a national contract.. Now that is unity!!

Wow. And you think a national union is shortsighted? Waiting for the good times to grab the brass ring is a huge factor in the cycle of this industry. Of course nobody talks about this in good times. People can't see past the end of their own noses. Grab the brass ring, have your pay for two years, and then watch the whole thing go down in flames worse than the last time. This is not the perfect storm. The next cycle will be worse.

Gas prices aren't decimating this industry. Consumer expectations are. Airlines can't raise prices to cover their actual costs because someone will always do it for the price that a customer would rather pay. ANY startup can devistate all progress. And there are too many pilots looking for work to stop the downward trend. This is not something that just goes away when times are better. It'll just make the next collapse even worse.

This kind of unity is what is needed to stop the cycle.

Decide what you want. And live with it. Also know that we are in a Perfect Storm. Should we make changes because we are in the Perfect Storm or should we weather it and know we have a system in place that works. Or a little of both.....???

It works? How are those industry leading contracts doing now?

 

[Newman55]

Hear Hear!! A big reason we are in this trouble is because of shortsighted thinking of the past. The militant unions wait for airlines to start making a lot of money then they demand the world. Its like plucking too many feathers from the golden goose and once the party is over the problems begin. The old stupid mentality of well this guy got all this money so we need to get that plus more needs to die. Perhaps this will teach everyone a lesson not to go asking for the farm just because an airline hits a few profitable quarters. It has no effect on the senior fat cats of course. They get their fat paycheck and could give a rats behind about what happens in the future to the junior pilots. They just want to use profitability to make sure they get what they want. There is no torrent like greed. Perhaps this can teach everyone a lesson that this is one cyclical industry and its a stupid idea to always ask for more than the last guy got just because everyone is making money for a little while. Hopefully everyone learned a lesson and we can still make fair wages and actually work for them too. Lets face it some airlines have way too liberal work and vacation rules that breed inefficency. SWA makes more than any 737 driver now but they also work more for the most part. I certainly hope everyone learsn there lesson. Im sure, however, that once the good times come again militant unions will be playing the plucking feathers from the golden goose game. People need to learn to look at the big picture not just the here and now.