Mary Schiavo Suing (ref:PinnacleCRJ200)

[johndt]

I call BS!!

You must be a lawyer.

I call BS!!

You must be an aircraft manufacturer.

j/k

 

[Lilah]

I thought Mary Schiavo died last year when they pulled her feeding tube.

The pulled the plug on the WRONG Schiavo.

(not mine)

Lilah

 

[Nancy Pryor]

It seems to me that if, in a effort to ever shave costs, regional airlines are going to hire 500 hour G/A pilots for the right seat and pilots with ZERO jet time on their resume for the left seat they have an obligation to provide this training.

This is an interesting position, and on reflection I agree with you. This also raises another concern, which is that maybe this training burden should not be on the hiring airline. I'm starting to wonder if this should be a regulatory issue, in that the FAA might do well to make this sort of knowledge a requirement for 14 CFR Part 121 operations and not leave it up to the airlines. This is a public safety issue, and as such it should take precedence over supply/demand economics. As a side effect, by raising the hiring bar in this way maybe the regionals might have to offer higher starting pay to attract more qualified applicants?

Incorrect. The airspeed limitation was offered for memorization without any supporting information as to why it existed (even our instructors and examiners didn't know why this limitation existed). The memory items for dual engine flame were also never physically trained in any sort of practical mannor.

But it was published ("offered for memorization"). As I said earlier, it should not be necessary to justify a limitation to get professional pilots to comply with it. If you don't understand the reason, comply anyway, and research the reason. To do otherwise assumes that you know more than the manufacturer's test pilots, which is unlikely because they will have flown the airplane in regimes that you should never encounter in normal operations.

 

[xjcsa]

If the crew had been trained in core-lock issues they might have recognized it, abandoned the restart attempts and headed for an airport much sooner, thereby increasing chances of survival.

As much as I detest Schiavo (she thinks MESA is the worlds safest airline) this lawsuit has to go forward.

The point is not how they got themselves into the mess, but how Bombardier/GE/Pinnacle/FAA kept vital information concerning these engines from all who fly them. Even my employer still gives false information to crews during initial/recurrent ignoring core lock completely.

RF

Yeah, but they AREN'T SUING PINNACLE! They are, on the other hand, suing Northwest! What on earth could Northwest possibly have to do with the crash? Anyone?

 

[DoinTime]

As I said earlier, it should not be necessary to justify a limitation to get professional pilots to comply with it.

I agree that it should not be necessary to justify limitations. However, you get better results when you do. IMO, pilot training should be based on getting positive results instead of the ideology of "they should just do as we tell them."

Pilots are a unique group of people whose logic essentially works the same only yielding vastly different results. The 3701 captain must have maintained such a low airspeed after regaining control of the aircraft for a reason. I would imagine that he was targeting his minimum descent rate instead of the prescribed speeds in the memory items. Had he known the justification behind the memory item speeds it may have overridden his logic of keeping the aircraft in the air as long as possible.

Sadly, this is perfect example of a training department that did not stress an understanding of WHY things were the way they were.

 

[Flyerjosh]

Yeah, but they AREN'T SUING PINNACLE! They are, on the other hand, suing Northwest! What on earth could Northwest possibly have to do with the crash? Anyone?

Simple. The paint scheme was Northwest's and the pockets are deeper there than at Pinnacle.

 

[DoinTime]

Yeah, but they AREN'T SUING PINNACLE! They are, on the other hand, suing Northwest! What on earth could Northwest possibly have to do with the crash? Anyone?

I believe PCL is being sued along with the rest. I don't know why they weren't named in the press release. My inclination is that the guy that wrote that press release didn't have a clue.

 

[Dodge]

Dodge, you have no clue what you are talking about. One engine was overtemped beyond operation but the other engine was fine and should have started.

No, I do know what I am talking about. Did they try to restart the "good engine" in the relight envelope? I don't know if they did or not. I got so mad after reading the first part of the Prelim Report that I didn't finish it all. But, judging by the way these guys operated the flight up until that exact point, I don't have too much faith in them doing the correct operational procedure. Why would they start doing things correctly then???

Now, have I done dumb things in airplanes? Yep. Have I blatantly thrown caution, safety, common sense to the wind? Absolutely not. These two were total imposters of professional pilots. I can't believe we lost so much of our flying over the years to this quality outfit.

 

[WSurf]

I thought Mary Schiavo died last year when they pulled her feeding tube.

Funny Butters, I was thinkin the same thing!

 

[DoinTime]

No, I do know what I am talking about.

I don't know if they did or not. I got so mad after reading the first part of the Prelim Report that I didn't finish it all.

Once you are capable of having an intelligent conversation please check back with us.