Mary Schiavo Suing (ref:PinnacleCRJ200)

[HoserASA]

CRJ200 Flameout Crash Spawns Lawsuit
Former DOT Inspector General Mary Schiavo’s law firm, Motley Rice LLC, has filed suit against Bombardier, General Electric, Honeywell, Northwest Airlines, KGS Electronics and Parker Hannifin on behalf of the families of the pilots who died in the crash of a Pinnacle Airlines Bombardier CRJ200 on Oct. 14, 2004, near Jefferson City, Mo. While on a repositioning flight to Minneapolis, captain Jesse Rhodes and first officer Richard Cesarz took the 50-seat CRJ to its service ceiling of 41,000 feet to, in the words of the captain, “have a little fun.” Moments later the airplane’s GE CF34-3B turbofans quit and failed to restart. The post-crash investigation revealed conditions consistent with engine core lock. Motley Rice charges that the defendants knew of the potential for core lock and subsequent oil pump malfunction, faulty restart instructions and other alleged problems with the aircraft. The NTSB has yet to issue a final report, but information from the FDR and CVR indicated that the pilots changed seats, ignored stick-shaker warnings, failed to declare an emergency immediately and waited too long to request a vector to an alternate airport.

 

[labbats]

Personal responsibility is foiled again.

 

[Filkster]

Personal responsibility is foiled again.

If the crew had been trained in core-lock issues they might have recognized it, abandoned the restart attempts and headed for an airport much sooner, thereby increasing chances of survival.

As much as I detest Schiavo (she thinks MESA is the worlds safest airline) this lawsuit has to go forward.

The point is not how they got themselves into the mess, but how Bombardier/GE/Pinnacle/FAA kept vital information concerning these engines from all who fly them. Even my employer still gives false information to crews during initial/recurrent ignoring core lock completely.

RF

 

[Butters]

I thought Mary Schiavo died last year when they pulled her feeding tube.

 

[LoveGun]

I was trained to fly the CRJ 200 at the Bombardier factory in Montreal by Bombardier instructors. Core lock was never brought up. If core lock is an issue with the CRJ-200 engines, bombardier and GE need to address the problem. How is it that we have hundreds of CRJ type rated pilots that don't even know what core lock is?

Also, high altitude flight was covered only briefly in our CRJ training. Granted the argument coud be made that if you're captain of a jet you should have an understanding of high altitude flight, but there is also a responsibilty on the part of examiners to assure that whoever was/is CRJ typed is familiar with high altitiude ops.

A lot of blame can be focused on the pilots for this accident, but also the finger can be pointed at the manufacturer, the training dept, and airline management. Anyone that had a hand in allowing those pilots to fly a CRJ is suspect.

 

[FlyBarneyJets]

If the crew had been trained in core-lock issues they might have recognized it, abandoned the restart attempts and headed for an airport much sooner, thereby increasing chances of survival.

As much as I detest Schiavo (she thinks MESA is the worlds safest airline) this lawsuit has to go forward.

The point is not how they got themselves into the mess, but how Bombardier/GE/Pinnacle/FAA kept vital information concerning these engines from all who fly them. Even my employer still gives false information to crews during initial/recurrent ignoring core lock completely.

RF

I call BS!!

You must be a lawyer.

 

[LoveGun]

I call BS!!

You must be a lawyer.

So you're saying an aircraft manufacturer doesn't have to admit and address design flaws. Also, a training department is not accountable for handing out type ratings, and an airline is not responsible for checking the proficiency of its pilots. I'm not trying to defend what these yahoos did, but there is a whole chain of events that should have been broken and kept them out of the cockpit or at least insured they were properly trained.

 

[labbats]

Without stirring the pot too much on this volatile situation, it's far too easy to look past poor judgement call after poor judgement call and blame the manufacturer. That exact reason is why an airplane part costs 100 times what an identical part for a car costs.

I don't want to monday quarterback these guys, because I've done some pretty stupid things myself. Yet, forgetting all their mistakes and pushing on to the manufacturer with your hand out isn't going to solve anything.

 

[Flyerjosh]

I'm amused with how many people have gone ape sh*t about how there's no training about core lock, and how critical it is for the manufacturer and training departments to do so.

Can you name an instance where core lock has brought down an aircraft? Pinnacle doesn't count... this accident was self induced. Core lock isn't a factor as far as I'm concerned, because the crew didn't lock the engines. They FUSED them when their actions created internal temps in excess of 1200 degrees C. Show me a report of where ligitimate core lock caused a crash.

If the crew had been trained in core-lock issues they might have recognized it, abandoned the restart attempts and headed for an airport much sooner, thereby increasing chances of survival.

If the crew hadn't been so concerned with covering their own ass and trying to hide the fact that they had lost both engines, ATC could have vectored them to the nearest suitable airport and then kept them within range of the airfield. Instead, the crew (and in particular the CA), chose to report a single engine failure, and lost all situational awareness.

My intent isn't to piss on the grave of these poor pilots. But I certainly feel that the vast majority of the blame falls on them. The rest falls on the management and training department at Pinnacle for allowing this crew to wind up in the situation, and failing to provide adaquate oversight and create an appropriate safety environment.

 

[flatspin7]

The engines would have not been in that core lock situation if they hadn't been flamed out due to a high altitude stall and then melted due to attempting an airstart out side of the envelope...

Thats why airplanes have limitations.

PS Read my posts in the other crash thread.