Management Spin at the new US Airways

[Flybywire44]

So if NIC or DOH came would they rectify the problem? Is USAPA not helping the west pilots because they're not paying dues? Crazy times...

 

[Thebadcat1313]

So if NIC or DOH came would they rectify the problem? Is USAPA not helping the west pilots because they're not paying dues? Crazy times...

If USAPA has any sense, they will figure out that they had better represent the west, regardless of the dues they are collecting. You cannot make your representation contingent on or proportional to the dues collected. That is big time illegal, my friend. They won the election, now they need to step up to the plate. That is going to involve doing things that are hard to stomach for many easties. The alternative is chaos and likely successful DFR against USAPA.

 

[cactusboy53]

Fun fact.

Fact....an event that has come to pass. Just because someone says an event would have come to pass, doesn't make it so.

 

[BeCareful!]

If USAPA has any sense, they will figure out that they had better represent the west, regardless of the dues they are collecting. You cannot make your representation contingent on or proportional to the dues collected. That is big time illegal, my friend. They won the election, now they need to step up to the plate. That is going to involve doing things that are hard to stomach for many easties. The alternative is chaos and likely successful DFR against USAPA.

One thing I never see the predominantly West populous here on FI.com mention is that there are OPEN POSITIONS for PHX and LAS reps within USAPA.

Your blind hatred for us and the behavior your group has indulged in is childish. There are potentially huge benefits to being free of ALPA National and John-now-that-I'm-here-how-about-letting-me-do-it-till-I'm-65-Prater.

I agree that the dual list furloughs are a travesty, and I have expressed this to my reps. But you all had plenty of responsibility in this mess dating back to before USAPA's election. For one, you shouldn't have walked out on the lock down negotiations in Colorado. Maybe USAPA wouldn't exist.

No matter, none of your keyboard commandos here in cyberspace will ever admit to the important crowd here that you're anything but victims.

What you should do is fill those Rep positions that have been open to you for MONTHS. Then your angst won't look quite so stupid.

 

[TWA Dude]

One thing I never see the predominantly West populous here on FI.com mention is that there are OPEN POSITIONS for PHX and LAS reps within USAPA.

Fun fact your USAPA Propaganda Minister never revealed: at least Four Westies have in fact asked to be appointed to be base reps -- and they were rejected by first officer Bradford.

In any case, it doesn't matter whether we have reps or not. As long as AL-SAPA is determined to rearrange the seniority list to the East's advantage we'll have no representation.

For one, you shouldn't have walked out on the lock down negotiations in Colorado. Maybe USAPA wouldn't exist.

For two, you shouldn't have walked out on the Joint Negotiations during the summer of '07. Maybe you'd have a higher pay rate, more vacation, duty and trip rigs, full deadhead pay, trip protection, and reserve rules.

 

[cactusboy53]

One thing I never see the predominantly West populous here on FI.com mention is that there are OPEN POSITIONS for PHX and LAS reps within USAPA.

Your blind hatred for us and the behavior your group has indulged in is childish. There are potentially huge benefits to being free of ALPA National and John-now-that-I'm-here-how-about-letting-me-do-it-till-I'm-65-Prater.

I agree that the dual list furloughs are a travesty, and I have expressed this to my reps. But you all had plenty of responsibility in this mess dating back to before USAPA's election. For one, you shouldn't have walked out on the lock down negotiations in Colorado. Maybe USAPA wouldn't exist.

No matter, none of your keyboard commandos here in cyberspace will ever admit to the important crowd here that you're anything but victims.

What you should do is fill those Rep positions that have been open to you for MONTHS. Then your angst won't look quite so stupid.

BC;
We have had people in discussion with USAPA to be representatives. Here is the single largest problem: DOH will NOT work for AWA pilots...PERIOD. Those people that have spoken with USAPA have emphatically made it a point that they will work to change the policy to something akin to ALPA (or if you can't swallow that....the new Bond/McCaskill airline employee merger reform).

Now, do you suppose Stevie Bradford would have that kind of person involved with USAPA? Not likely.

So, here we are now with endless litigation. It will take a court's order to force USAPA and the company to comply with the terms of the transition agreement and ultimately the implementation of the Nicolau list. My bet is it will take a merger and or 7+ years to see the Nic in action.

I don't hate USAPA. I don't hate the east pilots. I am simply deeply disappointed in these people's inability to follow the set rules and guidelines in this merger. I went out and had a couple of beverages with an east pilot in CLT the other day. He is junior to me on NIC and senior to me on the list Bradford attempted to deliver to Parker. We agreed to disagree, but he did say that ultimately the courts will decide what is going to happen.

The question I left him with is this: At what point do AAA pilots decide that they have spent enough time, MONEY and effort to change something that will likely not change?? Seham and company are betting that it will be enough to pay for their summer home, winter home, home away from home, and Homey the Clown.:beer:

 

[ALGFLYR]

Fact....an event that has come to pass. Just because someone says an event would have come to pass, doesn't make it so.

Kinda like the East being VERY close liquidating???

Hummm.....

 

[Bringupthebird]

Why don't the east pilots demand a change from their union into one that the west would be willing to participate in? Anything else makes your pleas for west involvement disingenuous.

Unless the east pilots are just discovering what the west has always known: the the leadership of USAPA is dishonest and corrupt.

 

[TWA Dude]

No matter, none of your keyboard commandos here in cyberspace will ever admit to the important crowd here that you're anything but victims.

Lemme get this straight: the AWA pilots agreed to abide by binding arbitration and when the East doesn't YOU'RE the victims? Our choice to not give you concessions while the East and Prater held a gun to our heads makes YOU the victims? Joseph Goebbels would be very proud of your rhetoric.

 

[MK82Man]

Be Careful

"One thing I never see the predominantly West populous here on FI.com mention is that there are OPEN POSITIONS for PHX and LAS reps within USAPA."

Dude -- You have to be a member of USAPA to hold a Rep position. You do realize that hundreds of us applied for membership but USAPA tells us that we are an "applicant." Can't be a member unless you are voted in by your domicile reps, so since you West guys have no domicile reps, you are just an applicant. But pay us dues anyway. Most of us applied for membership in July (but many in May and June), but USAPA has yet to accept us -- 90 days and counting for most guys -- can't they make a decision? Oh by the way, the recent changes the PBR made to the constitution, only members can vote. So we are frozen out of that decision as well. The West pilots reviewed the constitutional changes (I hope you guys are tracking the changes they are making) that USAPA highlighted to the members ... you do realize there are tons more changes that USAPA didn't highlight for you to review, don't you? Some are so scary it will make you afraid to be a member. Read the clause about the allegiance you owe to the union as a Representative/Member ... it is way more scary than anything ALPA made you agree too -- especially the part about how the PBR can hand out punishments and fines as they see fit. You need me to post you some examples of the other changes? So don't lecture the West about not trying to be involved. We told USAPA we would get involved to tear down DOH from within ... we are shut out! Some union indeed. How's the vote for cobra coverage for medical care coming for the 54 West pilots furloughed on 1 October ... 57 more in 2 weeks?

 

[MK82Man]

Since there was no answer (it has been 5 days) from any of the East pilots regarding the exclusion of West pilots for membership, I thought I’d share this little gem about how USAPA is “working” on Cobra payments for the furloughees. Of course, only AWA pilots have been furloughed so far at the new US Airways, with East Coast new hires and furloughee returnees still employed (125 new hires will be furloughed eventually, so the order we kick pilots out the door doesn't really matter). Wonder if that will change on 1 Nov when another 50+ AWA pilots go out the door? Too busy arguing with management about Captain’s authority and getting that ad in the USA Today to work this prior to AWA pilots being furloughed …. Glad to hear we have the priorities straight. When’s the vote on the proposal?

USAPA Proposal AI 08-51 Furlough Pilot Medical Insurance

WHEREAS In the past the pilot group has approved a ballot be placed before the members to allow for furloughed pilot medical insurance, and

WHEREAS It is in the interest of USAPA to support our furloughed pilots with access to medical insurance, and

WHEREAS This action requires an assessment rather than payment from the general dues accounts

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED That the USAPA Board of Pilot representatives will send to the US Airways pilots a ballot concerning making medical insurance available to those member pilots who face furlough that contains the following provisions:

The assessment shall be $25.00 per month for each member captain and $15.00 per month for each member First Officer, except that an ERJ-190 captain shall pay only $15.00 per month and each ERJ-190 First Officer shall pay $10 per month.

This benefit shall be available to members only. In order to receive this benefit a member must be in good standing with all dues and assessments paid in full when furloughed.

This benefit requires that the pilot pay for the insurance and he is then paid from the fund.

The fund is administered by VEBA Associates of Tampa FL.

These costs estimates for the assessments are based on past practice and history.

This program, if enacted, shall continue for 18 months and then must be re-evaluated by the Board of Pilot Representatives as to the continuance of this program.


So to our East USAPA card carrying members -- How is a West Coast pilot who applied for membership, but never been granted membership, still listed as applicant, waiting patiently to pay dues, and now about to be furloughed …. How is he going to be covered by the “must be in good standing with all dues and assessments paid in full” (assuming he is furloughed in one week) … Sounds like something written to benefit the East pilots … just like almost everything that comes from USAPA. How about the 50+ AWA pilots furloughed on 1 October? Yeah, sure, they are looking out for the West’s interests all right …. What a joke. I bet the vote results are official after 1 Nov so they can freeze another 50+ AWA pilots furloughed on 1 Nov out of any benefit from the proposal.

 

[BeCareful!]

MK82 -

Sorry, don't do much Internet these days on aviation....too much fantasy and BS.....anyway, I've asked questions about West membership and have been told that they received lots of fake applications. Applications sent in with so much obvious misinformation and childish stuff that it has bogged down the review of the real apps. Honestly, that's what I was told. However, the USAPA guy who told me this was a Pilot4pilot guy and did say he needed to look into it more.

If what you are saying is true than I'm pissed as hell and I want an explanation. I will do this early next week and will post what ever the absolute truth is as soon as I find out.

As far as the furloughee medical insurance, I will be voting for it as well as every pilot I've flown with over the past month. It was done for me when I was furloughed and I appreciated it. Got me through 'till I got another job.

As I've said, I think the dual list furloughs out of seniority is absolute CR@P and I've expressed it to my reps. But let's look at the real culprit: US Airways Management. They will always take an opportunity to divide us, and the more confusing the mess they can make with all the lines that are drawn, the better. They know that any sort of unity with us will be near impossible now, as if it wasn't already. We should have seen this coming.

Anyway, good luck. I will continue to look for answers.

 

[Ocity]

MK82 -

. But let's look at the real culprit: US Airways Management. .

Wrong. the "real culprit" is that terrorist organization run by a bunch of reckless, intransigent, half breeds that blindly throw hay-makers 360 degrees, 24 hrs a day in the hopes that someday they can beat others into respecting them. Good Luck with that fantasy.

They and their ever-so-entitled supporters/members are the scum of the earth. Your fake "union" and its members aren't fit to shine the shoes of picket line crossing scabs.

LOA 93 for life...get used to that idea.

Your vote, Your Fault.

 

[TWA Dude]

But let's look at the real culprit: US Airways Management.

No, they're not the real culprit they're the real beneficiary. We could've had a joint contact in 2007 when we were a profitable company. They company didn't pull out of negotiations; YOU did.

 

[Bringupthebird]

But let's look at the real culprit: US Airways Management.

Don't the pilots on the east ever tire of the Shell Game?

"It's not us - it's ALPA"
"It's not us - it's the AAA MEC"
"It's not us - it's Bronner"
"It's not us - it's the bad old bankruptcy judge"
And now...
"It's not us - it's US Airways Management"

USAPA's hands are all over the out of seniority furloughs and they will surely (IMHO) sign a side letter agreeing to LOA93 for the west to protect their guys from further furloughs on the east. In exchange they will likely indemnify the company from lawsuits arising from accepting the DOH list. I would also expect them to acknowledge the east contract as the "joint contract" (via side letter) to allow implementation of the DOH list. Bradford and Parker will come out and babble something about moving forward and shortly thereafter rumors will swirl about Parker accepting the proposed payrates, only to find out that nothing of the sort had been agreed to.

Has every USAPA member sworn an oath to deny all accountability?