Management Elitism

[enigma]

As I sit and read posts in the ongoing EAL demise string and others from the recent past, I wonder why I (a pro-business conservative from a right to work state) find myself so at odds with people like the Publisher.

I think that what I find offensive is their elitist mindset.

I mean that I think that some managment types act as if they are superior in knowledge and common sense to working people. Just as people like Hillary Clinton think that the masses really do need sheparding from the intellectuals, some in management really do seem to think that "we really don't know how the game is played".
I beg to differ, I think that a lot of us understand how the game is played. Just because we didn't choose a management track for our career, doesn't mean that we are in any way lacking in intellegence, knowledge, skill, desire, or motivation. We are not intellectuall midgets who must rely on the strenght of numbers to succeed. We are unionized because we inherited a unionized industry. We take the situation that we are given and attempt to make the best of it. We didn't create an environment of distrust and negativity. But that environment does exist.

As an aside, I have worked for a two non-union carriers (Mesa in 1990, and Sunrise in 1999) My distrust of management was learned from those situations. Managers who inist upon treating people poorly just because there is another person standing at the entry door asking to take the abuse, doesn't make the abuse right.

Back to the elitist mindset. Hey Mr. Management, just because you went to Harvard and I went to an obscure aviation school doesn't mean that you'r smarter. Just because I'm not motivated by money and the acquisition of power doesn't mean that I am not motivated.
And most importantly, just because I am motivated to protect my interests, doesn't necessarily make me your enemy. If you management types would realize that we could be partners, your life would be easier.

If I may steal a line from the publisher, Hey managers, "you just don't understand how the game is played". I'll let you in on a secret, people in this country (and hopefully the world) have had a taste of freedom. The human spirit demands that we stand up to oppression, and as long as managers attempt to treat people with disdain, they will be faced with opposition. You might argue that $250K per year pilots are not oppressed, I agree, but the I'm confident that without the protection of numbers they would be. With rare exception, management has earned the opposition that they receive.

As others have noted in other strings, SWA has done OK with a unionized workforce. I would propose that SWA has done OK not because of cheaper workers, although a low cost structure is an obvious advantage, but because of superior leadership from managment. Now that Herb has stepped back, it remains to be seen if his successors can maintain the positive environment.

regards
8N

I've got to finish this in a hurry revisions may follow.

 

[FD109]

Enigma,

Boy , I wish I'd said that!

It's amazing how people (and even pilots) react to the way they are treated. Or said another way, companies have the unions they deserve.

Regards,
FD109

 

[mar]

"Superior Leadership"

Enigma--You used the term superior leadership.

That's it. Some lead with a vision where everyone wins. Others lead with the intent of taking all the pesos.

Takes all kinds I guess. But you seem to be having some trouble reconciling your pro-business sentiment with your Publisher-frustration.

If you ask me (and you didn't) I would suggest that you're merely thinking critically--and independently.

This industry (nation) could use some more critical and independent thinking.

 

[Timebuilder]

You're right, mar. Enigma took the words right out of my mouth.

Many companies treat their employees as a liability, in need of strict control and supervision. In many cases this is because they consistently hire the wrong people since they offer low wages, attracting those people.

Other companies hire good people, pay them well, and give them an interest in the sucess of the company by insipiring excellence. The employee is a team member, and not, as Leona Helmsley once said, one of the "little people".

Two totally different approaches, with two completely different outcomes.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Enigma, agree with a lot of what you said except the part of King Hillary - she is the smartest person alive and the peasants are just too ignorant to realize how smart and virtuous she really is .

Probably shouldn't admit this, but I'm in (operational logistics)management myself (duck - incoming!!). I see what you're talking about. There are a few honorable men, but there are more dishonorable and/or elitist. From my experience mis-management types can be all or a combination of the following: 1) power hungry, 2) money hungry, 3) high mindness or elitism, 4) "Frank Burns" from M*A*S*H - how did they ever make it this far?!, 5) interested more in self promotion rather than others and running a good business, and 6) outright thieves, prisons must be full.

I think part of this may stem from them not really enjoying what they are doing. Personally, I do not find my work that enjoyable but I do get satisfaction in trying to run a good operation and helping people.

Regarding the elitism, speculate the "grunts" in the military think the same thing about their chain of command, the ground pounders may think this about flight crews, the law abiding citizens about their government, etc. Guess it all depends where you're coming from.

For what it is worth, I have seen management "eat their own" but pretty much if you're in the inner circle you're part of the untouchable club. I have been subject that elitism myself, got myself an unexpected and unwanted transfer to Orlando as a result! Bottom line what is needed are honorable people in positions of authority and responsibility. Taking a line from the Marines, "we're looking for a few good men (and women)....."

 

[Delta3]

I Agree

I was in a MBA program this summer and many of the people in it, including the professors seemed like snobs.

During the summer we took tours of different companies, and one of the professors, a retired NASA rocket scientist would always ask impossible questions to the employees that only he would know the answer to.

The whole focus of the program seemed to bring in more technology to take the place of the frontline employees. Everybody kept saying how it's the perfect solution to America's corporate problems.

I just kept thinking of how many other CEOs had that bright idea and only fell flat on their face when they realized interpersonal relationships are in fact important in life.

I don't want to give out stereotypes, but many manager type people that I know of are the type of people who have been "the golden child" from day one. They know nothing but success, and they are constantly brought up to believe they are the world's leaders and "more valuable" then the guy working 3rd shift.

It's hard for them to realize that they are not just a coach, but also a player on a team.

As billionaire Ross Perot said:

"You've got to have people working with you, if they're working for you, you're in trouble".

 

[enigma]

Thanks to those of you have replied.

I just thought of another example, and it may prove that the problem is societal. How many of you went to a public school with a "shop" program? I wanted to go into the autoshop program, but the counselors convinced me that the only students who went into the trades were the "unintelligent" ones. I've got an acquantance who is a frame/unibody repair specialist and I WILL NEVER make as much in my avation career as he has already made in an autobody shop. While I spent twenty years pursuing aviation, he was out making money. Enough of the personal stuff, the point is that a lot of people tend to look down upon those who choose to make their living with their hands.

regards
8N

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Yes, there does seem to be a stigma regarding occupations that involve using your hands. Saw the same thing growing up.
If I had the entrepreneur guts (and capital!) I think owning and running a good car repair place is a great occupation. People are always looking for a good, honest mechanic. Talk about "easy" money. Wouldn't have to advertise, word of mouth would suffice. Not only would you have a succesful business you get to help people in a round about way.
Getting back to your comment regarding others looking down. I may be reading in between the lines, but are you implying people look down at pilots? If so, I see that to a certain degree but if that does happen I wonder if it is more due to jealousy because they are miserable in their jobs and would rather do something more enjoyable like flying? They may be too prideful to admit they'd rather be doing what you're doing. As a result, they build up a "superiority wall". Just a far fetched theory.

 

[bobbysamd]

Shop class

I took two years of metal shop in high school. Among other skills, I learned how to operate machines, acetylene weld and arc weld. I took the course because I liked working with my hands and enjoyed every minute.

My experience with managers has been that you receive a blank look in return for you trying to explain your job to them while explaining why you need help with your work, with a project, or why you cannot cater to their needs immediately. I worked for an attorney who, time and time again, demanded the impossible from us, not that we lacked the intelligence to do what she wanted, but because we, as nonlawyers, lacked the skill and training to do her attorney work. That frustrated me to no end.

I worked for another attorney who wouldn't give me sufficient facts for me to complete his work. I knew how to do the work well, but I needed certain facts to do it properly (and have him avoid potential malpractice). He got surly with me and accused me of not being a self-starter. The problem was that I did not work for him on-site and did not have the file or a way to contact the client. That was frustrating.

Of course, there are some managers who are mentors and not slave drivers. Just the same, the managers we're discussing should try walking a mile in our shoes and not regard us as mere members of the proleteriat. I can relate to Enigma's first comments, having worked for Mesa briefly in 1993.

 

[publisher]

Weigh In

I might as well weigh in on the subject since my name is mentioned here so often.

My reference to how the game was played means only that you have spent your years developing your skills as a pilot. Your hours have been spent learning weather and circumstances and you call on them everytime you are faced with a new situation. You are a professional.

My point was that I am too. It should come as no big surprise to you if I said that something was not what it appeared to be. Let me give you a public example. Oliver North.

Does anyone here think he ws running around ordering aircraft to fly all over with drugs or guns all by his little lonesome.

Eastern-- which we were talking about-- involved a bunch of people doing their own thing and pontificating in public something entirely different

Over the years, I have had a number of people for whom I worked. Some were great mentors who wanted you to succeed and took very good care of me. Others came in all kinds of flavors. Only a few, a very few, were elitist types like Stephen Wolf who would be happy in a world without people. Another current airline Chairman abused employees unless he thought they would fight back. Generally though, most people I have met were fair people who wanted to do the best for all. Sometimes there are managers whose decisions were made for them by circumstance. that cuircumstance resulted in a position that hurt people.

Sometimes the point that business do not exist to employ gets lost and people think they are there to employ people.

Like in my other posts, labels are rarely good when they throw everyone in the same pile. I gave my pilots a course in reading and understanding financials and it changed their appreciation of our customers and company.

As you all know, education does not only come at Harvard.