Making them pay

[EatSleepFly]

I'll try to make a long story short...

Last fall I was flying a Bonanza for a company. The pay wasn't great, but I've had worse. It was on a part-time/as-needed basis. For the most part, I enjoyed it. Single pilot, IFR...and cool to be flying a Bonanza.

Anyways, fast forward to early this spring. I start getting a little uncomfortable with the whole operation. It was a combination of sketchy maintenance, a couple of 'incidents' with the plane (not pilot induced), poor treatment of me, and better opportunities. So I tell them maybe it wouldn't hurt if they found another pilot to fly with them when I couldn't. They say no problem at all, and acted extremely happy for me, since I was moving up to larger equipment and better opportunities.

So in early March, I do my last three trips (not intending for them to be my last, I was still going to fly once in awhile for them). I send them my bill, and get nothing. Two, three, four weeks and a few emails later...still nothing. Finally an email comes with some song and dance about how they've been busy so they couldn't return my emails, and they didn't think they owed me anything. I patiently explained where they were mistaken, and they kinda just said, "oh, ok." Still no paycheck.

Last week I packaged up their company credit card, keys, and some other stuff I had, and mailed it back to their offices (partly to remove the temptation to use the card for three trips worth of stuff, lol). I'm beyond pissed off, but I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I'm not getting paid.

In my last email to them, I did ask for at least a recommendation letter from them, if they weren't going to pay me. After all, I busted my ass for them...was always on time, always got them where they were going safely, and never complained. Haven't gotten one of those yet either.

I guess after all this, I have to ask...is there any way to MAKE them pay?

Thanks for reading my rant....any advice would be appreciated!

 

[jergar999]

I would show up at offices/homes in person. I personally would have kept the credit card and keys until I was paid, but returning them was the honest thing to do. Anyway, show up in person. If that proves to be ineffective, small claims would be next. If that proves ineffective, I'm sure Bobbysamd could tell you more about a writ of execution, which I imagine would be fun and interesting. I guess it all depends on how much they owe, and what it's worth to you.

In any case, good luck. It really is too bad there are companies out there that do this.

 

[JB74]

That sucks.

Look in your local phone book for the Dept. of Labor office near you. They are usually on the employee's side in these disputes. Once your former employer gets a call from them, he will probably fire off a check to make the whole thing go away.

Good Luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

put a lock-boot on the bonanza.

Another option is to show up at the airport and confront them when they are with thier friends getting ready to go on a trip -- you may never see your $$ but you will embarass the $hit out of them.

 

[Resume Writer]

put a lock-boot on the bonanza.

Another option is to show up at the airport and confront them when they are with thier friends getting ready to go on a trip -- you may never see your $$ but you will embarass the $hit out of them.

I would be careful confronting them in front of others. If he has to put them down on his applications, they could harm him later when they are called for a background check.

I would just show up at their offices, tell them you were in the neighborhood and tell them that you came by to pick up the check and/or letter of reference. If you get nothing from this, write it off as a bad experience and move on.

Kathy

 

[350DRIVER]

A simple and professional letter from any attorney could probably solve this problem rather easily. Just be careful in what you pursue since you may need to put them down on applications for future employment, they may try and screw you. Sometimes it is hard to swollow your pride, understandable.


If it were me though I personally would have a local attorney compose and send them a letter.


3 5 0

 

[pilotman2105]

True on the application thing. Be careful what you do there.

However, the Better Business Bureau may be able to offer some assistance. I worked for a company where it took them quite a few weeks to pay me after I should have received my first paycheck. While it did eventually come, my first step was going to be to the BBB.

Otherwise, just write it off and tell everyone you know about your experience. Word travels fast in the industry.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Thanks

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I like the prop lock idea....

Unfortunately, the Dept. of Labor and/or the BBB wouldn't do anything for me. They were paying me under the table while they "acertained whether or not they had a use for a legitimately employed pilot." Apparently they don't.

I guess I won't see the money...best I can do is to warn others. If a guy named Jim in the Cleveland area offers you a part-time gig flying a V35B, run away. Its not worth it.

 

[English]

List the company name as well...and a phone number, if possible. I'm sure those of us with alot of time on our hands can make some persuasive phone calls on your behalf

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I personally would sleep better with a little revenge!!!

why are we so worried about a reference from this PRIK??..

...."jeeesh, I better not get joe prik mad because xyz commuter airline might call him in 7 years and he will say I did a bad job flying his Bonanza and I wont get that 17K/yr job"...

....Im gonna puke.

A pilot who never had any problems with any previous employers?? no thanks, I dont want to fly with him/her. This industry is crawling with scumbags like this guy and they get away with it because people are overly concerned about a reference...

the guy I worry about hiring?? the guy who worked for skyscumbag 135 charter service for 3 years building time and NEVER had any issues, arguements, or concerns....it was all peachy. THAT fellow scares me!!


there is time to walk away and laugh and there is a time to get the baseball bat out of the trunk and break some knees in a dark parking lot!!

which makes YOU feel better?

 

[Resume Writer]

I personally would sleep better with a little revenge!!!

why are we so worried about a reference from this PRIK??..

...."jeeesh, I better not get joe prik mad because xyz commuter airline might call him in 7 years and he will say I did a bad job flying his Bonanza and I wont get that 17K/yr job"...

....Im gonna puke.

A pilot who never had any problems with any previous employers?? no thanks, I dont want to fly with him/her. This industry is crawling with scumbags like this guy and they get away with it because people are overly concerned about a reference...

the guy I worry about hiring?? the guy who worked for skyscumbag 135 charter service for 3 years building time and NEVER had any issues, arguements, or concerns....it was all peachy. THAT fellow scares me!!


there is time to walk away and laugh and there is a time to get the baseball bat out of the trunk and break some knees in a dark parking lot!!

which makes YOU feel better?

Gulfstream, you are too funny!

I had a client not get hired by a major airline because of what a previous employer said about him. He had been through the interview and they were checking background information. If they were checking background, then they were seriously considering him. He had nothing else that would have been a red flag.

Personally, if you were getting paid under the table, do you really need to use him on your application, Eatsleepfly?

Kathy

 

[KigAir]

I would be careful confronting them in front of others. If he has to put them down on his applications, they could harm him later when they are called for a background check.

Kathy

I am with GulfStream on this one. They have already screwed him out of the money. What makes you think they won't screw him on the background check?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

exactly...

I would leave this one out of my history too!

Your point is well taken and ones career must be thought about, but so should ones pride..I think most of us would rather work with a human being than a tool anyday.

I have heard those stories before but I simply DONT BUY that he was not hired simply because of what one single previous employer said...I just dont. A trend amongst a few previous employers? (hes late, hes weak, no comment etc..) yup. that will do it...one bad rap? I just dont buy it..

but then again Im known to be slightly thick headed at times..(no $hit? really?)

 

[bobbysamd]

I guess after all this, I have to ask...is there any way to MAKE them pay?

Two ideas:

1. Tony Soprano et al.

2. Assuming this is a legitimate company, you might contact someone at your state Wage and Hour board and/or your local federal Wage and Hour Board for advice.

As far as a Writ of Execution goes, you first have to go through the entire litigation process with the hopeful end result being a judgment and a judgment lien. At that point, you might have to go through discovery to find out where the party's assets are. After that, you execute on the judgment, which includes such things mentioned below as liening on assets. I believe you can also record a lien against any real property the welshers own. I learned that the court will enter a Writ of Execution, which is given to the sheriff to execute. You cannot attach the lock on the prop yourself; the sheriff has to do it.

This link provides a definition of Writ of Execution. I've never done one, but it does sound interesting.

Hope that helps some more. I agree with KigAir, Resume Writer and Gulfstream about not listing this company on your resume.

 

[JimNtexas]

Re: Thanks

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I like the prop lock idea....

Unfortunately, the Dept. of Labor and/or the BBB wouldn't do anything for me. They were paying me under the table...

That's good for you and bad for the employer. They were certainly in violation of a number of local, state, and federal labor and tax laws.

A lawyer letter will get your money.

If you don't want to do that, you should at least let your State Employment Commission know what happened. As an employee, you have first claim on their assets. And you were an employee, no matter what they say.

You should also contact the IRS and Social Security people and fill out the forms to claim the social security payments that they should have taken from your paychecks, but clearly didn't .

 

[350DRIVER]

If a guy named Jim in the Cleveland area offers you a part-time gig flying a V35B, run away. Its not worth it.

This "guy" wouldn't be the one from Air Services at KCLE?


3 5 0

 

[cherokee]

I had a similar situation a little over a year ago. My advice is to stop emailing. Call the guy on the telephone and confront him. Then call him every single day until he pays you. Eventually he may relent just to get you to stop calling. My guy did. I would also show up in person. Email is just too informal. No one is actually standing there or talking to you in person on the phone. As far as a bad reference...just don't list them, I'm sure you would have more jobs in the future you can use as references. It's not like you're going to go from flying a Bonanza to the majors. I would NOT accept non payment. I don't know about you, but I do not provide pilot services for free!

 

[LR25]

Put a lien on the airplane if you have documented service.

 

[TIS]

Several thoughts...

First, you are entitled to your money. You performed the service and you had an agreement to be paid for that service.

Small claims court is the venue for this. I wouldn't bother with a lawyer - too expensive and too complicated. Once you engage one your former employer will not be able to talk directly with you anymore - they'll HAVE to talk to the lawyer as your representative.

Anyway, you go to the county clerk's office and fill out the paperwork and they'll give you the summons to serve them with. Nothing quite like getting served to appear before a judge to wake you up!

They'll be FORCED to reckon with you if you do this.

There's not much money involved so it should be relatively simple to get a judgment in your favor - particularly if they decide that they don't need to show up for the hearing. You WILL need to be able to prove your relationship to the company. Such things as check stubs, logbooks that show you flew their plane, fuel receipts you paid on their behalf, etc. will demonstrate that yours is the more accurate story. Don't forget to bring your bank statements that show you never made deposits in the amounts in question - if you have any such records.

The rest of your argument will be that you are owed for flights that are also documented in your logbook. It will then be up to them to prove that they paid you by producing a cancelled check or a receipt signed by you for the money. If they fail to do this the judgment is all but yours.

A judgment may not be the end of it though. If they fail to pay you even after a judgment had been entered against them, it's time to start considering putting that lien someone else suggested on their plane or some other material asset they have. You can do that yourself too - when armed with the court's judgment.

Now to the other issue that you think you're dealing with. You can only be dinged by what a former "employer" says about you if that part of your history is looked into. If you weren't officially employed then this is not an "employer" you will need to show in your background disclosure at future interviews.

You will not need their reference either - it's a single engine airplane - the time in which is worth NOTHING in the real world of professional aviation. What you got was some good formative experience but unless there are two engines on the thing I wouldn't sweat putting them down as a reference. No one needs to know a thing about them.

I would go get the small claims thing going and get your court summons. When you fill out the paperwork be sure you count EVERYTHING, including the interest on the money they have not paid you - in your statement of what compensatory relief you're seeking.

Next, show up in person with a copy of your final invoice - be sure to include interest - You need to try to get the interest from them yourself before you can ask a court to force them to give it to you. Demand immediate payment for your service. If they do ANYTHING but pay you, drop the summons on the desk, saying as you do, "In that case, I have some papers for you. You may consider yourself served in the matter of 'EatSleepFly vs. BS Flying Service'" (Fill in correct party names as appropriate.) If you say more you might damage your case so turn around and walk out. They don't need to know about the lien you will impose on the plane just yet anyway.

Accept offers to settle only for the full and correct amount - you can let the interest go if it'll help. If they chase you out the door with a check take it and be done with it.

It's really pretty simple and it's also pretty effective. You'll be letting them know that you are no pushover - which they are COUNTING on you being rightnow. Like I said, being compelled to appear in court will change their opinion of you very quickly.

One last thing. There's usually a one year statute of limitations on stuff like this. It might be shorter so get to work NOW. Think of the learning opportunity!

Like to know how this one comes out!

TIS

 

[EatSleepFly]

Hey, thanks a lot for the info. everyone. Its been really helpful!

I'm not too worried about their reference, except that they were the only flying I was doing for about a 3-4 month period. I suppose it would be pretty easy to explain the employment gap as just being slow during the winter months in the midwest.

I've left them another phone message, and an email. If I don't hear anything by Monday (I'm out of town until then anyways), then I'm going to get the small claims process started. At first I wasn't going to bother, but its supposed to be a decent paycheck, and right now, I can't afford to just let it go.

Thanks so much again for all your help...I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[huncowboy]

List the company name as well...and a phone number, if possible. I'm sure those of us with alot of time on our hands can make some persuasive phone calls on your behalf

don't forget e-mail... then go to a place like www.whatever.ru and sign them up LOL ... just kidding.

Happened to my wife once, they still owe her $200. Actually since they have canceled the check we were even charged by our bank LOL... I still feel like going over to them and leave a few marks on their car, but with my luck, I would look dumb trying to explain it on my inteview how I got arrested.

I say forget it.

edit: reading the rest of the posts... if it is a decent pay check than I would also go for the small claims court. Make sure you watch a few series of Judge Judy just to be prepared

 

[low-n-slow]

Re: Several thoughts...

First, you are entitled to your money. You performed the service and you had an agreement to be paid for that service.

Whenever my job is finished and the amount of money owed to me isn't in my hands on the agreed time frame I get very hyper. It's no longer *your* money, it's mine and I'm going after it just as if someone stole it right out of my house or wallet.

As far as going to the Dept. of Labor, I got ripped off several years ago for a months pay by a scumhole of an idiot in North Dakota and the Labor board told me that all that was due to me *legally* was the current minimum wage scale for the hours (no overtime) that I worked.

Good luck, hope you get YOUR well deserved money.

 

[fxbat]

Put a lien on the airplane if you have documented service.

I second that, a contract Capt. I know had to do that as well, and when the owners got the lien notice things changed. He got paid for his time and the attorney fees for filing the lien.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Small claims court or lien on A/C

Small claims court is for this kind of thing. The hassle factor might make them pay up.

If it is revenge you want and you worked under the table. Be sure to report the income under the section 1090 as a contract worker and report the company to the IRS if they don't report your services rendered. They will have fun with the audit.

A company owed me around $800 when I left for a 121 commuter in 1984. I just let it go. Although, I scratched the top of my right hand pulling some freight out of a cargo hold and still have the scar. When I notice the scar I sometimes think of how I got hosed by that company!

Good luck

 

[V-1]

I had a problem similar to this with a 135 employer who'd I'd worked for for two years. During that time, I saw what happened to every other pilot who left that job, and vowed it wouldn't happen to me. The employer would withold the last paycheck invariably.

I made sure to document every minute I worked during the last few weeks...including obtaining copies of company invoices I'd written students for instruction from those same students.

Sure enough, a month went by without a paycheck, despite repeated calls deflected by the call-screening secretary. I also sent a certified letter to their mailing address (a p.o. box...how convienient for them), which they refused to pick up for three weeks. Still no paycheck ($1300 for the last week of work).

I called the local (un)employment office and asked them how to proceed. They advised me to contact the State Wage & Hour office with a claim. I did, providing extensive documentation of wages owed, per-diem owed, the company's pay structure (the aviation industry often has unusual compensation calculations), and copies of pay stubs from previous weeks' labor and corresponding weekly schedules to corroborate my claim.

I can't say enough about how this office performed. They sent a letter to my previous employer, to which the manager was required to respond. I think my paycheck and the letter they sent both arrived at their respective destinations on the same day, so my efforts may not have been necessary. Neverless, I waited a few days to cash the paycheck just to keep a little pressure on the previous employer. Perhaps they'll be less likely to pull this on the next guy...probably not though.

The lesson...document everything before leaving an employer in this industry. It pays. Perhaps not applicaple in your case, but the experience dealing with this will stay with you.

 

[TIS]

Document, Document, DOCUMENT!!!

The lesson...document everything before leaving an employer in this industry. It pays.

This is a little off subject but I'll add it anyway.

I'd take this thought a stpe further and say document EVERYTHING abnormal, unusual, or contentious all the time. Don't wait until you leave.

No matter who you work for you'll come up against some marginal situations. When you do document each occurrence in detail. You never know what patterns will emerge whe you put them all together after a time. Nor do you know what you might need to use to defend yourself if the FAA (or anyone else) starts looking into you and your affairs.

Personal record keeping is a good idea in this business because there's an awful lot that people SAY the essence or implication of which never goes on paper unless you put it there. You never know when you'll need to say to the chief pilot, "...but you said, on April 4, 2002, that I should shut the APU down THIS way."

Never ceases to amaze me the look they get on their faces when the realize what you've been keeping notes on and to what level of detail. It's a nifty rabbit to be able to pull out of a hat.

TIS

 

[Airpiraterob]

the solution to all your problems

you....a wooden bat....some ugly lookin pipe hittin brothas....and a smack-talkin midget speakin hype.


umm i third or fourth the lien. he pays for all the expense and it gets his attention. if normal matters fail, get the legal matters. if they fail....id go with the brothas and the midget.

 

[Bandit60]

I know you have a right to the money. A few years back, my sister had the same thing happen to her (non-aviation related) and she talk to a lawyer friend. He said this was an extremely easy case. She was entiled to full payment immediatly and if not payed he would be liable for much more. With that letter she got her money promply. The amount extra she would have received would have been worth the suit.

 

[tron4000]

Re: Thanks

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I like the prop lock idea....

Unfortunately, the Dept. of Labor and/or the BBB wouldn't do anything for me. They were paying me under the table while they "acertained whether or not they had a use for a legitimately employed pilot." Apparently they don't.

I guess I won't see the money...best I can do is to warn others. If a guy named Jim in the Cleveland area offers you a part-time gig flying a V35B, run away. Its not worth it.

Agreed. Just walk away from it.