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Making it to Big Iron

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JetScreamDriver

Active member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Posts
28
I just started collecting 121 PIC. So two questions I'd appreciate advice on.

When do I really start becoming competitive to move to the next level?

My career aspirations have gotten confused over the last couple years with all the turmoil in our chosen profession. I want to retire in the left seat of a REAL airplane.

I'm flyin' the J-baller now, what's my smartest next move?
 
Keep flying left seat, keep yer nose clean and don't screw up.

When the majors are back in business, ya'd be looking sweet.

Been there done that.
It comes and goes in cycles, 9/11 and all.
 
JetScreamDriver said:
I'm flyin' the J-baller now, what's my smartest next move?

Get out of that POS before it hurts you.

Seriously, I wouldn't change a thing until you log at least 1000 hours 121PIC. After that, bid a different airplane, or change jobs. Get hired somewhere where you can get a larger bird.

BTW, who's still flying SewerRats?

enigma
 
Build the PIC and start making connections with people that work at airlines that you want to go to.
 
In about ten years, when the legacy carriers begin hiring again, you should be sittin' pretty!
 
GogglesPisano said:
In about ten years, when the legacy carriers begin hiring again, you should be sittin' pretty!
I wouldn't waste any time worrying about getting hired at UAL or Delta or American or any of these other "legacy" carriers. The Jet Blues and Independence Airs and others that will follow when one of the "legacy" carriers inevitably goes belly up are the place to be for now.
 
In about ten years, when the legacy carriers begin hiring again, you should be sittin' pretty!
Rough skies for big airlines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Alexander Coolidge
Post staff reporter

The air travel rebound that the industry has been praying for is on its way, but it will leave traditional airlines behind with diminished market share as healthier, low-cost rivals take off, a new government report predicts.
Airline passenger demand will return to pre-Sept. 11 levels in 2005, but regional carriers such as Cincinnati-based Comair Inc. and low-cost carriers such as Southwest Airlines, JetBlue and AirTran will be the beneficiaries, the Federal Aviation Administration report says.

Major carriers like Greater Cincinnati's dominant airline, Delta, have seen their collective market share slip from 83 percent of traffic to less than 77 percent, said the report. The agency predicts old-line "legacy" carriers such as Delta will see that share shrink to less than half the total domestic market by 2015.

"That's hardly a surprise," said Glenn Engel, an analyst with Goldman Sachs & Co. in New York. "It's still a very tough business."

Traffic at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport, which is dominated by Delta and its subsidiary Comair, should continue to benefit from Delta's shifting more flights to Comair, said Ted Bushelman, airport spokesman. Delta reported earlier this year that, while its overall traffic shrank 3.3 percent in 2003, Comair saw a 40 percent increase in the same period.

"Delta does very well in Cincinnati with Comair," he said.

Bushelman said traffic at the airport was growing and that local officials were pursuing plans for eventual expansion.

Engel said major carriers have trapped themselves in a vicious cycle of flying fewer planes to save money. Cutting capacity brings in less money and spreads more costs over fewer active planes. It also invites low-cost competitors to expand into the majors' markets.

"Nobody's ever shrunk their way to profitability," he said.

The report came out as Southwest Airlines said it was stepping up its expansion into Philadelphia -- a highly aggressive move against US Airways, which maintains a hub there. The move prompted US Airways chief executive David Siegel to tell employees the discount carrier was "coming to kill us."

Since the end of 2000, legacy carriers have seen traffic drop nearly 15 percent, while low-cost carriers have seen traffic rise by more than 28 percent

Publication Date: 03-30-2004
 
What exactly is a "real" airplane?
 
I would think that if the guys that fly "real airplanes" are mad enough to be suing their employers over guys with "fake planes" stealing bread and butter off of their tables, it's going to be real hard to show up at an interview hiring board at a legacy carrier after flying for a regional going "how do you like me now?"

American to pay pilots' union millions
By David Koenig, AP Business Writer | April 16, 2004

FORT WORTH, Texas -- An arbitrator has ordered American Airlines to pay $23.2 million to its pilots' union in a dispute over shifting flights to commuter subsidiaries, another setback to the world's largest carrier, which is trying to recover from three years of mounting losses.

American's pilots have long tried to block the company's efforts to save money by adding flights on its regional commuter subsidiaries, which use lower-paid pilots.

The financial impact of the decision was unclear, however. A spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association said the union was considering ways of settling the case without cash changing hands.

The ruling is the latest to result from a series of confrontations between American and its unions. A federal judge ordered the pilots' union to pay a $45.5 million penalty to the airline after an illegal sickout in 1999.

In the current case, an arbitrator ruled that American had improperly subcontracted regional flights to two commuter carriers that it acquired with the purchase of bankrupt Trans World Airlines in 2001.

The Allied Pilots Association complained that Fort Worth-based American was trying to circumvent a provision in a 1997 labor contract designed to protects its members' jobs. The union said the provision let the company use commuter airlines to feed passengers to American but not as a substitute for American flights that use APA pilots.

"This is significant -- it means jobs," said Gregg Overman, a spokesman for the pilots union. "There's a real interest that the commuter side doesn't grow at the expense of the mainline."

Overman said union leaders were discussing what form the settlement -- slightly more than $2,200 for each of the union's 10,500 active members -- would take.

"I don't think we're going to take it in cash," he said. The union may instead ask American to make up the difference by relaxing contract restrictions imposed last year, when the company cut pay and benefits sharply to avoid bankruptcy.

American on Friday defended its actions but said it would not appeal the arbitrator's ruling.

"We made business decisions that we believed fully complied with (the contract) at a critical time in our history," said Sonja Whitemon, an airline spokeswoman.

Whitemon said the issue was resolved in negotiations last year, when American's unions agreed to huge wage and benefit concessions rather than force the carrier into bankruptcy. She said the airline doesn't believe that a cash award is warranted but would try to "improve our relationship with the APA."

The dispute between American and its pilots centered on the way the company labeled flights operated by two regional carriers, Trans States Airlines and Chautauqua Airlines, that flew from TWA's old hub in St. Louis.

Instead of flying under American's code, the two began using a different code in 2002, which meant those flights didn't count toward the limited number of flights that American could operate on its American Eagle commuter airline.

The union said the maneuver let American boost the number of flights on its commuter carriers, which reduced the number of American flights and led to additional pilot layoffs at the big airline.

American stopped the practice last year.

The arbitrator, Stephen B. Goldberg, also agreed with a separate union complaint that American falsely inflated the number of commuter flights after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The union said American added commuter flights because it knew that the number of those flights would be frozen when the company began laying off American Airlines pilots in October 2001.

Goldberg ruled that the airline owed pilots the amount of money they would have been paid for the flying that was improperly diverted to the commuter carriers.

The arbitrator reached his findings in October but ordered both sides to keep the ruling confidential until he determined American's penalty, which he did Thursday. The award was reported in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Shares of American's parent, AMR Corp., fell 2 cents, to close at $12.38, Friday on the New York Stock Exchange.
 
WhiteCloud said:
I wouldn't waste any time worrying about getting hired at UAL or Delta or American or any of these other "legacy" carriers. The Jet Blues and Independence Airs and others that will follow when one of the "legacy" carriers inevitably goes belly up are the place to be for now.


Independence Air???

You're joking, right??
 
after 1000 Turbin PIC

Go for Turbo Jet, you will be competitive in the cargo market after your 1000 hrs turbo prop PIC, go someplace to get turbo jet PIC. Be prepared for a different mode of operations. Our cargo pilots have been hired by every one of the majors, back when they were hiring.
 
Re: after 1000 Turbin PIC

pilotyip said:
Go for Turbo Jet, you will be competitive in the cargo market after your 1000 hrs turbo prop PIC, go someplace to get turbo jet PIC. Be prepared for a different mode of operations. Our cargo pilots have been hired by every one of the majors, back when they were hiring.

Dittos, and make sure that you don't waste the time or money to get a four year degree, because as we all know, it ain't blinkin needed to be a good pilot!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just kiddin YIP:D

enigma
 
Funny man. I was flying "big Iron", now I fly an RJ that doesn't weigh as much as our typical "big Iron" fuel load. You never know what you might end-up flying in this business. Make all of the right career decisions, and you might still be screwed in the long-run.
 
Real Planes

Wanna fly a real plane before you're at retirement age??? Go to Hong Kong or Singapore cause it ain't gonna happen here.
 
TriJet said:
Independence Air???

You're joking, right??
Not at all. It wasn't too long ago that Jet Blue didn't even exist. SWA was a gamble when they started up too. Since Delta, Northwest, United, American and many others aren't hiring and probably won't again for many years (if ever), the first and possibly the last place a lot of us will get heavy jet experience is at a place like IAir.
 
Since Delta, Northwest, United, American and many others aren't hiring and probably won't again for many years (if ever),

So does ever really mean ever? Majors will hire some day. The last 3 years represent 7 - 10% of ones career. There are still good times to come.

The people that are so pesimistic about the future will fulfil their own prophesy. The people that hate their job and think nothing will get better, are the ones who won't put out their resume to improve their situation.
 
You know that was a good post. A year ago today.....only a few regionals were hiring. I think like comair and chautauqua...and any others were hiring sparingly. Everyone was bummed. Now i swear 80% of the regionals are hiring. Eagle, Coex, ASA, TSA, Air Wis. It is amazing how much regional hiring changed since the first of the year. Like eagle and coex....i think when Northwest and United etc. start recalling...we will be suprised how many pass up recall. Although not as many as passed it up at eagle and coex of course. And even though i posted this....to me it still seems like it will be forever before i have a shot at getting out of the 1900 captain seat.
 
college degree

For enigma, I am a changed man on college degrees, I have changed my tune; I now admit a college degree may open doors and may make the difference at the top of the pyramid. But Part 121 Turbo Jet PIC will get you the job. So I still support going for flight time and doing the degree on the side. You can not log part 121 Turbo Jet PIC while being a full time student, but you can do part time on-line degrees while flying full time. As stated by others on this board before, it takes a lot of discipline, and may not be suitable for everyone. Say hi to all the USA Jet guys going over to Spirit
 
WhiteCloud said:
Not at all. It wasn't too long ago that Jet Blue didn't even exist. SWA was a gamble when they started up too. Since Delta, Northwest, United, American and many others aren't hiring and probably won't again for many years (if ever), the first and possibly the last place a lot of us will get heavy jet experience is at a place like IAir.


Heavy jet? I wasn't aware they are that ambitious.
 

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