Makes me sick!

[LearLove]

Smoke another one my friend!!!! The list is the list is the list...there is no judge that will overturn it....it will always be the list. even if easties de-certify alpa and it takes three years to merge. the list will still be the list. So why not get your nice big pay raise and we can all play nice.

i'm not saying to change it, just a, what if question..

 

[Lampshade]

what if the award went like this:

all East guys with DOH prior to AWA start are on top. Then DOH for everyone from the start of AWA to the last East guy not furloughed (one above DC) Then integrate the rest based upon years of service. For example DC hired in 88 and furloughed in 2002 had 15 years acitive service and 18 years (1988 to 2005) before the merger. This is a diff of 3 years, so we lop off or add 3 years to his DOH so he is now integrated with an AWA hired in 1991. Do this until you get to the cel guys and then just tack them to the bottom as was done.

another example of the guy between the DOH crows and the CEL would be a guy like furloughedagain. His 99 DOH and 2002 furlough give about 4 years active service. Again taking into account the merger start in 2005 we lop off 3 year from his DOH and integrate him with the 2001 AWA guys.

how about it....

Should of told your MEC your idea before they screwed you. Oh DOH sounded to good even when the arbitrator hinted to them if wasn't going to fly.

Arbitrator: "You need to change your position"

USAir: "no were good with DOH"

Arbitrator :"Your not going to like it"

USAir:"DOH DOH DOH"

Arbitrator issues award

USAir "yea... about changing that position..."

 

[capt. megadeth]

Hey that's alright. The fact that we aquired a liquadating company and their senior 500+ pilots went to the front of the line makes me sick too. .......moron.

If USAir got DOH......now that would be unfair. They should be happy they got what they got. They could all be on the street or stapled.

 

[weasel_lips]

You're out of your mind if you think 1700+ unemployed's should even be on a list, much less "above" anybody.

Noone out here in the "real" world supports the Easties as long as they stick with the DOH mantra.

Don't you fly for an ACMI outfit?

 

[TWA Dude]

Let's call it payback for giving all your narrowbody flying away to save the pension.

How about let's not? There's nothing in Nicolau's language that indicates vindictiveness. It just drives me crazy sometimes how mean-spirited and petty pilots can be. The AAA pilots didn't get what they deserved; they got what Nicolau felt was fair taking into account the tenets of ALPA Merger Policy. There's no punishment or reward involved.

break

MCDU:

Does venting your frustration on FI really make you feel any better? Somehow I think not.

 

[iflyhigh]

First guys the award is not going to be changed. The only things East guys come hope for is something put in the contract to protect them.

Secondly, if furlough time was taken in account, some of the east guys would not have faired better. We all know that some east guys hired around the 89 mark spent more time on furlough that active at the company. (To be honest, I don't know the exact hire date of these guys.) The 98 and 99 guys spent less time at US Airways, then Dave Odell has on the West to date, ok 98 hires maybe about the same. So the list is fair when looking at active time at company, with the exception on the 88 and early 89 hires.

On last note, was I was furloughed from another ALPA carrier, I was told, you furloughees are not on property... If our company merges with anyone, we will try and protect your jobs, but you are not active pilots so that could be tough.

I can't imagine a East guy being told anything different. I hate to say it, ALPA only protects those pilots who are paying current dues. If you don't pay, you can't play is their motto.

 

[Contract]

TWA DUDE ----- The USAIR EAST pilots got a great deal as far as the Arbitration is concerned. Of course, its unfortunate that they ended up there in the first place. Now they want to be placed above you on a senority list that has already been decided by Nicolau. You have already given up 5% or more of your relative senority to these guys and that is still not enough for them. I know your just trying to be nice but were beyond that at this point.

Were not talking about what could have been the future for the EAST, where talking about what is the future for this collective group.

If the East does not wake up VERY SOON and accept the reality of their situation then we will all be looking at mediation for contract negotiations.

One day your furloughed, the next day you want to put 1800 pilots behind you that threw you a lifeline. If thats not personal, then I dont know what is.

Pure Friggin Greed is the way I see it, and this time its going to have a tidal wave affect on the entire industry and its pay rates if AlPA National allows this to continue. You see, mediation is not where you want to be when your negotiating future pay. If it comes to that Mr. Parker has already stated that he would use mediation in a recent letter and its also stated in the transition agreement.

Everyone should be writing ALPA to have them put a stop to the EAST Madness. If it continues it will only drag payrates for everyone further into the toilet.

The transition aggreement clearly states the process we are all involved with.

--There are three things in the transition aggreement that are clearly stated concerning the completion of combining the two groups.

1. Senority Award -----completed Nic Award
2. Combined Operating Certificate. will be completed in Sept)
3. Joint Contract ------Mr Parker has stated that he will use mediation if needed to complete this task.)

(The East can Decertify AlPA and its not going to mean anything in a court of law. It will just make for a weak contract.)

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA DUDE ----- The USAIR EAST pilots got a great deal as far as the Arbitration is concerned.

Preaching to choir, my friend. What I lamented was the derogatory language pilots hurl at each other. If/when I meet an East pilot in the hallway I give the same nod of greeting I give any other pilot. I've seen the effects of too many hotheads in this industry.

 

[Contract]

The AAA pilots didn't get what they deserved; they got what Nicolau felt was fair taking into account the tenets of ALPA Merger Policy.
.

This was the comment I was alluding to TWA. Right now the East MEC is reaching for anything and we sure dont want them to think that we faired any better then they did when we actually lost relative senority with this decision.

The East feels they are entitled to our positions since we have been the underdog for so many years. Anyway you look at it, they just can't get over themselves enough to accept the reality of the situation and move on.

ALPA National additionally has done a disservice to our industry by not helping the East to accept reality. If it continues much longer then we will all be looking at a CRAM DOWN CONTRACT through mediation and that will have lasting effects on everyone that ever picks up a flight bag at any airline going forward

The senority piece of the puzzle is completed. The single operating certificate will be completed in approxiamtely one month. All that will be left then is the Joint Contract to be ratified. The investors are pressuring Mr. Parker to get it done so they can see their combined synergies. Local chatter has this all wrapped up by March 08. Lets just hope the East guys are smart enough to realize they will fair a lot better by working together on this then they will by having something delivered during mediation.

 

[Contract]

As far as the big money on Wall Street is concerned "Its in the Bag", they just have to get the Unions together. If they cant get the Unions together peacefully then they will do whatever it takes even if it means breaking it all up and selling off the parts.

Either way it will be done and all the East guys will have left is their MEC Codeaphone preaching Educate to Vacate.

Tick Tock, Tick Tock.......the corporate tycoons are starting to realize that this is costing them money and their never happy when they lose money.

So, Whats it going to be boys. Grab for the Life Raft or hold on to the MEC CODE A PHONE and SINK?

 

[TWA Dude]

This was the comment I was alluding to TWA.

I don't disagree with anything you've written. My original beef here was that NWA guy implying that what the Easties got is somehow punishment for perceived past sins. I believe the Nic Award is fair to both parties too and I feel no need to defend what AWA got.

 

[PositiveRate]

Marty,

Go f*ck yourself. Anyone who feels the same can go f*ck yourself too. I'm so sick of this crap.

TWA is the exception - you're not getting any friendly nods from the rest of us as long as you remain pathetically silent behind your MEC's public stance to do nothing but stick it to the West in any way shape or form.