Majors Pay Rates

[Ben Franklin]

Where I come from revenue-costs=profit. You have a different equation?

I guess you don't pay any taxes, then.

Pilots should be so lucky.


Sincerely,

B. Frankliln

 

[General Lee]

Astraguy,

So, the gig is up at Delta? Expect a 15% cut from that $245. And that would equal about a $36/hr cut, which would still be about $209 an hour----not bad.

I still think there will be a 15% straight cut, plus the 4.5% raise cut we are due in May. That would equal 19.5%---but still give great wages.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BrownTailGuy]

Where did the 15% number come from? The last I saw was 9%. If the 15% is correct what does that do to a 12 year captain on the 767 pay rate?

Thanks

 

[FDJ2]

Where did the 15% number come from? The last I saw was 9%. If the 15% is correct what does that do to a 12 year captain on the 767 pay rate?

Thanks

The current 12 year 767 CA rate will be $243.22 effective May 1, 2004, a 15% concession would be $206.74.

Whether or not the DAL get's that 15% is another question altogether. John Malone, DAL MEC Chairman, has stated that the window for negotiations is short. If we don't get a mid contract TA soon, the emphasis will shift from mid term contract relief, to preparing for full section six negotiations in August with a PWA amendable date of no earlier than May 1, 2005. Right now negotiations seem to be moving at a snails pace. The DAL MEC offer was 9% + the May pay raise of 4.5%, efectively 13.5% off the May rates. The Company wants over 30%. That's a big gap to try and bridge in the next month or so. IMHO, if there is not a mid contract TA by the end February, the DAL negotiators will walk away from the table and start preparing for secdtion six negotiations in August.

 

[General Lee]

The 15% number (plus the 4.5% raise--or 19.5% total) is just a constant number I hear in the ATL lounge. I am not a negotiator and I do not gather polling numbers.....That is my hunch.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BIGBROWNDC8]

Dont want to come off arrogant here, but regarding UPS and our current contract neg. I think it is irrelivent how much these airlines are making now due to the laxing economy and how much they "currently" pay their pilot workforce. I feel terrible that the pilots are the ones taking the brunt of the cuts, however, our outlook at UPS should be how valuable (hourly wage) these pilot positions were to the company when they were making money (like UPS is doing). UPS is making record profits (in the multiples of billions of $ every year in profit alone) and we should be compensated the same as these companies from when they were profitable too. The same salaries will be expected from the pilots at DAL, UAL, AA, NWA and all the rest once profits start coming back. We need to set the standard (or rather keep the standard) for DAL and UAL just like they did in 2000 and if we settle for less, were "all" setting ourselves back 5-7 more years for a decent raise until our next contract.

$190 might sound great to many people on this site, but 95% of what we fly at UPS is Heavy, not a 737, the smallest A/C we have is the 757, (727) is going bye bye really soon and its current presents in numbers is not even a real factor in the total count of A/C. Our pay is suppose to be based off the 767 Intl. pay and I think even that is not accurate. We've got the 747, MD-11, A300, 767, DC8, 757 and 727. As far as compensation goes, my vote is "no" unless we get rid of the B-scale for years 2-7 and set the top end numbers for Capts just as they were for DAL/UAL Pre 9-11.

The economy is already showing signs of a recovery. If a pay cut is inevitable at DAL, include a "bounce back clause" for your pay if things get better before your next contract is ammendable. If its ok for them to renegotiate our contract mid-stream, its got to be ok for us too...

 

[Astra Guy]

Ben,

Taxes are part of the costs, just like for you and me when we figure out our disposable income.

General,

$209/hour is not bad...not great but not bad. My comment concerning the gig was that soon there would not be as much of a disparity between DAL and the bulk of the pack.

 

[Cyclone]

not relevant

Delta $245
Northwest $212
Southwest $162
Continental $160
Alaska $158
US Airways $150
American $147
United $147
AirTran $145
JetBlue $136
Frontier $132
America West $120

To those of us looking for a job...most of these are not relevant.
Delta--how many on furlough? How long before they ever hire again?

Northwest--same.

Continental--same.

US Air--same (and will they even be around)

American--same.

United--same as US Air

So...SWA is starting to look like industry leading pay (the others only matter to the select few who currently work there). If you're not growing/adding jobs, the pay just doesn't matter to the market.

 

[Astra Guy]

BIGBROWNDC8,

I understand and don't disagree with your statement.

 

[General Lee]

Astra Guy,

Yeah, I agree with you, but that payrate is just for the 737---not the 777 which is a lot higher. (a 15% cut would equal about a $45 an hour cut---or close to $265 an hour) But, we do not have as many 777s as AA or UA, so it is very hard to get to that payrate. (AA's current 777 Capt payrate is $178 an hour) What can we do? We want our company to survive and do well, and it is hard to keep such a huge Gap in tougher times. I am glad that the economy is returning, and things would have been much worse had it not.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Astra Guy]

Hey General,

Well, the bottom line is that no matter where one works they need to do what is necessary to keep their company solvent. We are all faced with that situation sooner or later and most of us don't have as much control as you all do in the airlines.

Hard liners in bad economic times whether they are national or company wise, need to keep this in mind. We all want to have jobs to go to....particularly if it is one that we enjoy. For companies on the bubble whether it be by mismanagement or out of line pay for their workers the result can be the same.

My personal belief, living here in Atlanta, more commonly known as Delta land is that you have lots of fat on the management side...you know the good old boy network. But I also believe that the pilots need to be realistic. How much control you all have over the mismanagement is in question. I do know that stockholders in your company invest to make money. Management and other employees need to work together. There in lies the problem.

Good luck and fly safely always......I may be in the back!

 

[General Lee]

Astra Guy,

I hope you are in the back with us, and I understand your points. We can't kill the "Golden Goose", but we don't want to be "taken" for a ride either. We have some good people working on this, and hopefully they can come up with a good deal for everyone involved. I am certainly not "ABOVE" giving pay back, expecially if it helps my total future, but not at the expense of our furloughed pilots or our soon to be retired guys. A straight paycut will help out Delta now, and we just want to give them what they need, not necessarily everything they WANT. We have hired people to look at exactly what they need to get better financing on that debt, and we are willing to HELP---with a little something in it for us too. Take care.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ben Franklin]

Taxes are part of the costs, just like for you and me when we figure out our disposable income.

I respecfully disagree.

Corporations pay their costs and then pay taxes on what is left.

Citizens like us pay taxes and then get to spend what is left.

Hurry, classes are filling up!

 

[Astra Guy]

Hey Ben,

We may be splitting hairs here. There is EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest Taxes Deductibles and Accruals and there EAITDA meaning after taxes. This is what I was referring to as =to profit. I may not have expressed myself properly before leading to this confusion.

Bottom line is revenue-costs(including taxes)=profit.

Now that we have this straight my hope is that your company turns a profit and gives you whatever raise you feel is appropriate.

 

[Singlecoil]

12 year Alaska pay is 189.23 currently and 196.80 as of May 1st.

 

[General Lee]

Singlecoil,

Didn't Alaska management ask you also for paycuts? I know you guys declined, but your negotiations are coming up quick and I can't see you guys getting anymore, and maybe getting a paycut. (We will settle on one too). Fun times for all of us.....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Singlecoil]

Management did ask, and after several weeks of negotiations, we walked out. We said, "Thanks, but no thanks, see ya for openers in March of 2004 for the contract that expires in May of 2005." We have a binding arbitration clause, so if push comes to shove, an arbitrator will be the one that decides what industry standard pay is when the package finally hits his/her desk sometime in ....2006?
For the record, management never asked us for a pay cut. It was a "market based wage adjustment". I can just hear L.L. Cool J screaming, "DON'T CALL IT A PAYCUT...ITS BEEN COMIN' FO YEARS", but I digress.

Somehow I recall Leo didn't respond too well to the Delta pilots' request for a "market based wage adjustment". Didn't he say, "A contract's a contract,"?