Majors Minimums resource? Also, is a Caravan a Turbine?

[Microclimates]

Hey I was just wondering if there is a website or some place that posts the minimums to apply to various majors.

Also, (as the title says...) would you laugh hysterically or just chuckle if someone tried (not me of course!) to satisfy the turbine PIC requirements with their Caravan experience?

Thanks!

 

[TNPILOT]

Hey I was just wondering if there is a website or some place that posts the minimums to apply to various majors.

Also, (as the title says...) would you laugh hysterically or just chuckle if someone tried (not me of course!) to satisfy the turbine PIC requirements with their Caravan experience?

Thanks!

www.airlinepilotcentral.com is a good starting point.

As for the flt time question...why not? It can never hurt to apply and most airlines are very specific about what counts and what does not. You'll never know if you don't put in the app.

 

[Twitch]

A gas grill is a gas grill. Doesn't matter if it's on your patio or rotor wing or fixed wing.

 

[flatspin7]

Yes- A caravan counts as turbine, but not Mutli (obviosly)

 

[Launchpad]

I had one of the guys at my SWA interview ask me if the Caravan was a turbine.... I chuckled afterward-

Just food for thought.

 

[Microclimates]

thanks! I'll see what happens!

 

[FedEx1]

Yes, a caravan is a turbine, but if you are interested in Fedex, you need 1000 hours PIC MULTI turbine.

 

[BVT94]

I had one of the guys at my SWA interview ask me if the Caravan was a turbine.... I chuckled afterward-

Just food for thought.

Did you ask him if the F16 was a turbine?

 

[Launchpad]

I should have, although in the long run it didn't matter. I thought everyone had seen a caravan. Fedex has a half a dozen of them at just about every airport across the country.

 

[Gorilla]

Was the Caravan designed as a turboprop from the beginning, or did it start life with a BIG piston engine?

In Belize, a big fleet of caravans sits poised on the ramp to shuttle passengers out to the barrier islands. As soon as we drop our peeps off, the Caravan boys get ready to go, and when the pax clear customs, it's off to the races.

I have no idea what the loads are like, but those 'vans are PACKED with people, SCUBA gear, a lot of stuff, and the airplane's gear really seem stressed. They stagger off to the East, and return a short time later, ready to do it again. A real work-horse.

 

[Ty Webb]

No disrespect towards hard-working Caravan pilots, but if you want to stand out as a well-rounded candidate, it's probably going to take more than Caravan time. Something pressurized, with two pilots, that flys at the flight levels and requires a type rating.

I'm sure there will be some guys saying, "I got hired at XXXX with only Caravan time" and more power to you, but there are only a few "majors" hiring, and a whole lot of furloughees and experienced RJ skippers out there.

 

[Launchpad]

Even being furloughed with jet time and all the other nonsense, SWA didn't seem too impressed with my mighty 208 time. I can only think of what they would think of a guy with ONLY 208 time. Stranger things have happened I guess.

To answer the above, I believe the Caravan had a Turbine from the drawing board... It's too bad they didn't put a bigger one on it-

Launchpad

 

[Microclimates]

i'm FO in regional 121 at the moment. It will be awhile before I log pIC again. hence the Caravan question.
how about this: some caravans are stc'd ot have TWO pt6 engines (one prop!!!) does that count as twin turbine?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Also, (as the title says...) would you laugh hysterically or just chuckle if someone tried (not me of course!) to satisfy the turbine PIC requirements with their Caravan experience?

Thanks!

???? Um, it is a gas turbine. So yes it would be turbine PIC. May not satisfy the MULTI turbine requirement of some airlines, but it is turbine.

As far a a Caravan being quality time? Single pilot in a van running around all night sure beats the crap out of F/O on an RJ as far as getting experience.

Airlines have time to teach somebody how to fly a jet.....they do not have time to teach somebody how to fly insturments. ALL Single pilot Caravan freight drivers can fly instruments...not all RJ F/O's can.
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Your shorts are steaming about now huh? Little mad at me are you?

Just remember the feeling when you get all high and mighty on another pilot about his/her time or background........there is a dozen ways to look at things, your statement that I quoted above makes you look kind of silly.

I never flew a Caravan, but I snorted the exhaust pipe on one once.....positive it is turbine powered!

 

[PAPA FOX!]

ALL Single pilot Caravan freight drivers can fly instruments...not all RJ F/O's can.

And to think these kids are literally only a heartbeat away from being solely responsible for 50+ lives is flat out scary!! I say require an ATP for all 121 FO's!!





Bracing myself while donning kevlar flame suit!

 

[gkrangers]

What does 1500 hours and being 23 years old have to do with anything?

 

[Alchemy]

Single pilot in a van running around all night sure beats the crap out of F/O on an RJ as far as getting experience.

Airlines have time to teach somebody how to fly a jet.....they do not have time to teach somebody how to fly insturments. ALL Single pilot Caravan freight drivers can fly instruments...not all RJ F/O's can.

And to think these kids are literally only a heartbeat away from being solely responsible for 50+ lives is flat out scary!! I say require an ATP for all 121 FO's!!

What a load of B.S. Tell me, what exactly do you think goes on in those level D simulators every year? Maybe some instrument flying? Maybe some CAT II or III approaches? Maybe some hand flown missed approaches and holds? Maybe some partial panel raw data non-precision approaches? Hmmmmm? Yeah? Ya Think? Oh yeah....it's never IMC on the FO's leg in an RJ....we always have to surrender the controls when we fly through a cloud with the autopilot disengaged.

We are vastly inferior compared to the magnificent skills of the caravan pilot. That must be why they're paid so well. You mean I could be making $24,000/yr flying a ragged out Cessna with 20 MEL's out of a dirty craphole at night 5 days a week, all while loading my own cargo on and off and cleaning the airplane twice a month? Sign me up for Martinaire....NOT. But hey, who cares since Southwest will surely be knocking on your door in 6 months. After all, flying night freight in a caravan makes you god's gift to turbine-powered instrument flying, CRM, and really builds a sociable personality. They'd be fools not to recognize that......riiiight.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

What a load of B.S. Tell me, what exactly do you think goes on in those level D simulators every year? Maybe some instrument flying? Maybe some CAT II or III approaches? Maybe some hand flown missed approaches and holds? Maybe some partial panel raw data non-precision approaches? Hmmmmm? Yeah? Ya Think? Oh yeah....it's never IMC on the FO's leg in an RJ....we always have to surrender the controls when we fly through a cloud with the autopilot disengaged.

We are vastly inferior compared to the magnificent skills of the caravan pilot. That must be why they're paid so well. You mean I could be making $24,000/yr flying a ragged out Cessna with 20 MEL's out of a dirty craphole at night 5 days a week, all while loading my own cargo on and off and cleaning the airplane twice a month? Sign me up for Martinaire....NOT. But hey, who cares since Southwest will surely be knocking on your door in 6 months. After all, flying night freight in a caravan makes you god's gift to turbine-powered instrument flying, CRM, and really builds a sociable personality. They'd be fools not to recognize that......riiiight.

Too caught up in your own ego to even see the point that I was trying to make. Unfortunatly that seem to be a normal response among many of the rj crowd.

Flying a jet in a crew envoroment is easy. Belief that you somehow are a much better pilot than a guy that flies a van all night is stupid. Looking back at my career I learned much more about flying from the SP 135 ops than I ever did as a Regional Captain, Corporate Captain, 737 F/O, or 747 F/O. Each taught me something, worldwide operations, crew management, jet ops, Paperwork, maintenance tracking etc etc. But for pure flying in all kinds of weather and basic instrument skills, nothing came close to what I learned flying a ragged out light twin in 135 freight ops.

So from a pro pilot point of view, having flown many types of planes from the 747 on down, I still stand by my statement.....All Single Pilot Caravan freight pilots can fly instruments(if not they seldom survive to move on) not all RJ F/O's can....or 737 and 747 F/O's for that matter.

 

[Alchemy]

I'm not saying that I'm a "better pilot" than anyone else because I happen to fly an RJ. The type of aircraft you fly usually has very little to do with your skill level.

At the same time I'm not following your logic that "all rj fo's can't fly instruments". There is something seriously wrong with the training department and culture at wherever you work if one of your "airline pilots" cannot fly instruments.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I'm not saying that I'm a "better pilot" than anyone else because I happen to fly an RJ. The type of aircraft you fly usually has very little to do with your skill level.

At the same time I'm not following your logic that "all rj fo's can't fly instruments". There is something seriously wrong with the training department and culture at wherever you work if one of your "airline pilots" cannot fly instruments.

I said "NOT all rj F/O's can fly instruments"

Please re-read the posts before trying to change what I said.

I agree with your last statement, but sadly you know as well as I do that a fair number of the current crop of RJ F/O's would not last too long if they had to be single pilot in heavy weather.

As far as your first statement...well that was the point I was trying to get across to the bozo that started this thread, and you decided to jump in and back up his statement.

Anybody that thinks he is a better pilot because he flies a transport catagory jet needs his head examined, 121 jet is by far the easiest flying jobs I have ever had. 121 scheduled airlines in the continental United States is cake until the occasional failure. International gets more challenging, but that has nothing to do with the airplane you are flying, it would be the same challenges in a Caravan as it is in a 747.

The simple fact is that the majority of the "dirt bag" freight haulers and check haulers running around in Caravans and Barons can out fly most of the airline pilots in the country instrument wise, they have the advantage of never having relied on all the fancy gee whizz electronics that we airline types now see as a "must have" (Flight directors, HSI's, radar, etc..) I used to not bat an eye at shooting ILS's with 100 indefinate and half mile vis with no HSI, No flight director, no autopilot, and no radar. That was the normal day for a 135 freighter.

 

[twasurfer]

As a pilot that has flown J32s and MD80s 121 and now flying a Caravan and a Pilatus I would have to say that single pilot IFR is much harder. Not to state the obvious here but 121 flying is not that difficult. Yes you have moments where the Siiit hits the fan but not to the extent that our operations take us into. You have to get yourself set up right for the approach without someone to cross check you or it could cost you your life. Just because it is a single engine turbine makes it no less of an airplane or the pilot any less qualified for a 121 major job.

Alchmey- Get off the RJ horse. What you once a year we do every other week- except for the Cat 2&3’s but then again I am not some dumb chick you are picking up in the bar trying to impress with you Jet F/O story. Cat 2&3 are the easiest approaches out there. They are called “Auto Land” for a reason – you don’t fly it. V1 cuts?- Try losing your only engine at night or IMC. I guarantee that my take off briefing has a lot thought put into it, even if it is to myself. Try shooting something other then an ILS at you next airport. Oh a few more things -I make 80k flying my planes. (This is where you tell me how proud of me you are…….. ) Keep in mind not all van drivers are time builders or poorly paid anti-social misfits. To make a statement like that would be as ignorant … no arrogant as me saying that all RJ pilots are poorly paid, non professional, no hat - but I got my backpack, Ipod, and wallet chain and I will fly bigger jets for less cause it makes me a bigger man at the crash pad. Been whipsawed lately? Not me-

 

[Alchemy]

Alchmey- Get off the RJ horse. What you once a year we do every other week- except for the Cat 2&3’s but then again I am not some dumb chick you are picking up in the bar trying to impress with you Jet F/O story. Cat 2&3 are the easiest approaches out there. They are called “Auto Land” for a reason – you don’t fly it. V1 cuts?- Try losing your only engine at night or IMC. I guarantee that my take off briefing has a lot thought put into it, even if it is to myself. Try shooting something other then an ILS at you next airport. Oh a few more things -I make 80k flying my planes. (This is where you tell me how proud of me you are…….. ) Keep in mind not all van drivers are time builders or poorly paid anti-social misfits. To make a statement like that would be as ignorant … no arrogant as me saying that all RJ pilots are poorly paid, non professional, no hat - but I got my backpack, Ipod, and wallet chain and I will fly bigger jets for less cause it makes me a bigger man at the crash pad. Been whipsawed lately? Not me-

You're right. I am just a scum sucking piece of crap for flying an RJ. What was I thinking? I'm not worthy of a job at a major airline. I never had to fly piston singles or light twins before I got here. I have no idea what it's like to fly a crapped out baron at night around thunderstorms, nor am I currently responsible for flying non-precision approaches at night in bad weather in mountainous terrain in a foreign country without radar. Nope, I am doing nothing but visuals backed up by ILS's all day in CAVOK at Wichita.

Seriously, I'm glad you have a well paying job. More power to you. Wish I could find a gig like that....I'm proud of you. This pissing contest is retarded, and extremely dorky. You're through with the "regionals"? Fine, I'm happy for you. But don't discredit that the experience is a pretty good resume builder for a better job at a Major.....because it's pretty much the same job with lower pay. I'm certainly not going to apologize for it, especially when we took flowbacks from mainline and aren't flying 70 or 90 seaters. Every job has it's merits and detriments. We aren't all lucky enough to find $80,000/year Pilatus gigs.

In the end I couldn't care less. I think you should just do whatever you'll be happiest with...for some that's flying at a regional, for some maybe that's flying a Caravan at night. Whatever makes you happiest. I'm not going to criticize anybody for taking a job as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But I'll be danged if I'll sit here and let someone tell me that there are RJ Fo's who can't fly instruments. I'll wager that even the greenest Pinnacle 600 hr newhire from Gulfstream can do that. You guys crack me up. You think we never turn the Flight Directors and Autopilots off in these things? I do it regularly. Go ahead and tie me to the SJS crucifix now.

I said "NOT all rj F/O's can fly instruments"

Please re-read the posts before trying to change what I said.

I agree with your last statement, but sadly you know as well as I do that a fair number of the current crop of RJ F/O's would not last too long if they had to be single pilot in heavy weather.

I have no idea where you get the idea that "a fair number of the current crop of RJ F/O's" couldn't manage single pilot ops in weather if they needed to. What evidence do you have to prove that? Been flying with a lot of RJ F/O's lately?

Why you ex-freight guys feel have such a compulsion to put down regional pilots is beyond me.....napoleon complex? I don't know, but it's bizaar. The concept that a group of professional pilots thinks for some reason that they're "better" than another would be laughable if it wasn't a big part of the reason why we're in the situation we're in today.

I'm tired of RJ FO's being the pariahs of flightinfo. It's ludicrous.

 

[AWACoff]

I have flown for two 121 airlines. TWAsurfer is right. Not all FOs can fly instruments. The simulator and real life flying are very different. One is a controlled enviroment and one is constantly changing. Welcome to single pilot 121 ops (sometimes).

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

Alchemy...Making gold out of a fool

Alchemy,

If you have never shared a cockpit with another pilot with less than desired instrument skills in actual weather, then you are either highly inexperienced or situationally unaware. Perhaps YOU are the F/O that RJ Capt's have to "carry" because it seems as though you are at the tender age of aviation competence where you have decided you have learned all you need to and perhaps you didn't even realize how bad you s&ck. The worst F/O's never do.

You said you "would never criticize someone for taking a job as long as it doesn't hurt someone." Well then, if that is the criteria, then i criticize you as an RJ F/O....you are the pariah of flightinfo because you are the "undocumented worker" (in today's speak) of the airline industry. You are being taken advantage of by an unscrupulous employer and somehow think it is a good deal. I know, I know...you are not taking jobs from "Real Americans" ( replace with "Major Airline Pilots"), because these are jobs that they just won't do (For those wages). "America" (Airline Industry) needs these undocumented workers. It's Cinco de Mayo brother, you're 4 days late, but you can still take the day off.

Oh.....and go spend some time on your MS flight sim or whatever it is called....your instruments need work.



You are about to get bit.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Alright, whip em out.

Who's got the bigger schlongs?...The Rj guys or the Night Frieght guys?


I'm glad this forum has finally been boiled down to "I can out-fly you." comments.


Thread Drift....



Lets talk about peak oil.:smash:

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

You're right. I am just a scum sucking piece of crap for flying an RJ. What was I thinking? I'm not worthy of a job at a major airline. I never had to fly piston singles or light twins before I got here. I have no idea what it's like to fly a crapped out baron at night around thunderstorms, nor am I currently responsible for flying non-precision approaches at night in bad weather in mountainous terrain in a foreign country without radar. Nope, I am doing nothing but visuals backed up by ILS's all day in CAVOK at Wichita.

Seriously, I'm glad you have a well paying job. More power to you. Wish I could find a gig like that....I'm proud of you. This pissing contest is retarded, and extremely dorky. You're through with the "regionals"? Fine, I'm happy for you. But don't discredit that the experience is a pretty good resume builder for a better job at a Major.....because it's pretty much the same job with lower pay. I'm certainly not going to apologize for it, especially when we took flowbacks from mainline and aren't flying 70 or 90 seaters. Every job has it's merits and detriments. We aren't all lucky enough to find $80,000/year Pilatus gigs.

In the end I couldn't care less. I think you should just do whatever you'll be happiest with...for some that's flying at a regional, for some maybe that's flying a Caravan at night. Whatever makes you happiest. I'm not going to criticize anybody for taking a job as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. But I'll be danged if I'll sit here and let someone tell me that there are RJ Fo's who can't fly instruments. I'll wager that even the greenest Pinnacle 600 hr newhire from Gulfstream can do that. You guys crack me up. You think we never turn the Flight Directors and Autopilots off in these things? I do it regularly. Go ahead and tie me to the SJS crucifix now.



I have no idea where you get the idea that "a fair number of the current crop of RJ F/O's" couldn't manage single pilot ops in weather if they needed to. What evidence do you have to prove that? Been flying with a lot of RJ F/O's lately?

Why you ex-freight guys feel have such a compulsion to put down regional pilots is beyond me.....napoleon complex? I don't know, but it's bizaar. The concept that a group of professional pilots thinks for some reason that they're "better" than another would be laughable if it wasn't a big part of the reason why we're in the situation we're in today.

I'm tired of RJ FO's being the pariahs of flightinfo. It's ludicrous.

Hey Einstein, this whole thread started by a RJ pilot posting a derogitory statement about a Caravan driver, not the other way around.

I never stated that "All rj f/o's cannot fly" I said that a "Fair amout of them cannot" And yes, I have flown with enough of them to know what I am talking about. I too have spent some days as a Single pilot captain at the regional level with an 800 hour wonder pilot sitting beside me that had no friggen clue what he was doing in weather. There is a difference between a guy that has real world experience and is learning a new airplane (jet), and a guy who not only is new to a jet, but is new to weather also. The latter is a bad combination, and all too common with todays hiring practices of looking for the cheapest warm body to fill a seat. I was around when this practice first started to rear it's head, from my buddies still in the regionals, all reports are that it has done nothing but get worse in the last 6 years.

If you really do not know what I am talking about, then you are probably one of the pilots we ARE talking about!

 

[Laughing_Jakal]

If you really do not know what I am talking about, then you are probably one of the pilots we ARE talking about!

My Point exactly!

 

[Alchemy]

You guys are hilarious.....I'm out.

 

[FN FAL]

What a load of B.S. Tell me, what exactly do you think goes on in those level D simulators every year? Maybe some instrument flying? Maybe some CAT II or III approaches? Maybe some hand flown missed approaches and holds? Maybe some partial panel raw data non-precision approaches? Hmmmmm? Yeah? Ya Think? Oh yeah....it's never IMC on the FO's leg in an RJ....we always have to surrender the controls when we fly through a cloud with the autopilot disengaged.

We are vastly inferior compared to the magnificent skills of the caravan pilot. That must be why they're paid so well. You mean I could be making $24,000/yr flying a ragged out Cessna with 20 MEL's out of a dirty craphole at night 5 days a week, all while loading my own cargo on and off and cleaning the airplane twice a month?

I have been flying Caravans professionally for over 5 years. We train in Level D Sims. We start at almost 32,750.00 with per diem. We don't clean, load or unload the airplanes. Our MEL's never see their allowed limit, as the planes are repaired immediately. Safety is not only stressed by management, it is mandated. Our management doesn't talk "safety before schedule", then push us to fly dangerous weather or broke airplanes. We fly out of the same dirty crap holes that Mesaba, Pinnacle, Northwest, Frontier, Allegiant, Skyways, American Eagle, etc, flies out of. We never do Sundays, we have holidays off with pay.

Yea, it's not all candy and nuts, but I don't have anyone breathing down my neck, the feds are usually easy to talk to on ramp checks because we/the company follows the rules and I'll never have to worry about what people in the back are doing, thinking, breaking, burning, smoking, or what their service monkey is doing, for that matter.

So, it's not the "career" making airplane...big deal. At least I don't have to eat turd after misrable turd off the paper plate and have to grin and bear it.