Major Airline or RJ Captain

[shroomwell]

As a guy who is almost 30 and does not yet have a job with a Regional is there ever a chance of making it to a major let alone being a captain with one, or should I be complacent with RJ captain.

I would like to hear your opinions on the matter, especially from those who know first hand. Any other career advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[flyhard]

Dude, even if you are forty with a major, that is twenty years of service. Compared with most RJ capts that make around $70 an hour and take 3-5 years to do it. I will make that as an F/O second year working for ATA. I would find a regional that offers a quick upgrade over a better quality of life. That will put you on the faster track. Get the PIC turbine time and don't worry about jet time until you have the 1000 PIC. Good luck.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

or should I be complacent

Please...no.

 

[350DRIVER]

I would not be concerned at all, you still have plenty of time to get to a "major" when things pick up. More than one have recently made the jump from being a 135 captain to a AWA or ATA so you have more than "one" option. I do anticipate many of the others following in Air Tran's steps where one day you will need a specific amount of 121 PIC time. On a recent trip home back east all but one of the ATA pilots I met were hired in directly from the 135/91 world.

good luck,

3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

As a guy who is almost 30 and does not yet have a job with a Regional is there ever a chance of making it to a major let alone being a captain with one, or should I be complacent with RJ captain.

First off, I second Hugh's comment about being "complacent" with being an RJ captain. I, for one, would have found that to be the icing on the cake of my career goals. So would plenty of other people.

At 29, you are definitely not too old. You need to take it one step at a time. You first need to get a regional job. You then have to work your way up to regional captain, so you can build the magic 1000 hours of turbine PIC. At that point the business might look much different. You might actually like being an RJ captain. $70/hour isn't exactly chicken feed. If you still want to move on, your 1000 of turbine PIC will be sufficent to stop majors HR from chucking your app.

Let's say you accomplish all this within the next six years. You would be thirty-five, and still viable for the majors. That still gives you twenty-five years to fly for your major, barring recessions and furloughs. You very well could make captain during that time. As was written above, if you can find a regional with rapid upgrades, you can accelerate your progress.

Best thing you can do to avoid disappointment in this business is to set realistic goals. Captain at the majors may not be realistic any more, and not only for you but for many people. Regional captain is definitely realistic, and attainable.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[Treme]

Let's say you accomplish all this within the next six years

This may be an unrealistic goal.

I would question those who suggest you should get a job with any old regional with a quick upgrade just to get the 1000 pic turbine.

Why not seek employment with a regional where, if all else should fail, you could enjoy long-term, stable, employment ... good quality of life... livable pay.

Dont sell yourself short and contribute to the lowering of the bar in some "race" to get 1000 pic with the hopes that suddenly the majors will break down your door.

Get a good job, support your family, keep realistic expectations. Figure out what is important in your life and move in that direction rather than following all of the lemmings that desperately seek some arbitrary number in their logbooks rather than enjoying their careers.

 

[Jungle Prop]

Perhaps the ballsiest statement I've seen on here.

should I be complacent with RJ captain.

 

[Astra Guy]

I agree Jungle! BTW nice shakin tush there! I don't understand the "complacent with RJ captain" statement. Wrong choice of words or my vocabulary is lacking.

The real advice for a non working pilot is get a job! At your age the sky is about the limit unless you want to fly the space shuttle!

This instant gratification or instant success attitude doesn't cut it. Man, there are few of us who have taken shortcuts. Pay your dues and keep the greasy side down....unless you are in a Pitts!

 

[flyhard]

I would not get caught up in the "pulling the industry down" bull$**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**. Use the regionals for what they are for most, a stepping stone to the next level. There is only one thing you should be concerned about in this industry, and that is yourself. A sad but very true statement.

 

[Big Duke Six]

Tough call...

I agree with Treme that it sucks to have to take a job with an operator he views as 'below the bar" just to get 1000 PIC.

That being said, I feel the most optimistic and positive approach should be taken. That would mean taking an otherwise unsavory job and building the turbine PIC as quickly as possible. I flew 135 freight for 2.5 years and got about 1700 hours of turbine PIC out of the deal, and a job with Frontier afterward. The problem with going somewhere you wouldn't mind being stuck is that while you are stuck, you are an FO drawing fairly low pay, which to me translates to lower quality of life especially if you are trying to support a family. That's why I'd vote for biting the bullet now, getting it done and get to the place you want to RETIRE from as quickly as possible.

 

[michael707767]

I agree Jungle! BTW nice shakin tush there! I don't understand the "complacent with RJ captain" statement. Wrong choice of words or my vocabulary is lacking.

I think he meant to say "content with RJ captain" not "complacent".

 

[JJJ]

you have 30 years left. That's enough time for 3 more cycles of mass hiring, and rounds of furloughs.

30 years is a long time. Things will be very different 2 years from now.

 

[shroomwell]

Content is probably better choice of words. I meant no disrespect to any RJ captains out there. I am sure if I make it there I will enjoy the job. However the bottom line is we would all like to be a major airline with an easier flying schedule and larger paycheck. Unfortunately that is the way it is now because the industry refuses to pay RJ captains a respectable salary for the type of job it is.

That make me think. What does a 10 year regional RJ captain make 60 grand a year. Can anybody else think of another type of job that requires a 4 year degree, significant amounts of training and experience to get the initial job, and then after 10 years of service only be making 60 grand? I think even teachers make more money than that, and they get more time off.

What were we thinking pursuing a aviation career.

 

[46Driver]

That make me think. What does a 10 year regional RJ captain make 60 grand a year. Can anybody else think of another type of job that requires a 4 year degree, significant amounts of training and experience to get the initial job, and then after 10 years of service only be making 60 grand? I think even teachers make more money than that, and they get more time off.

Military Officer. Try being a company commander responsible for the lives of 200 men in combat. Captains make around the $60k a year mark.

 

[bobbysamd]

RJ CPT pay

Unfortunately that is the way it is now because the industry refuses to pay RJ captains a respectable salary for the type of job it is.

That make me think. What does a 10 year regional RJ captain make 60 grand a year. Can anybody else think of another type of job that requires a 4 year degree, significant amounts of training and experience to get the initial job, and then after 10 years of service only be making 60 grand?

(emphasis added)

I'd like to be making $60K a year.

In any event, I heard that senior Comair captains make $90K a year. I don't know how long it takes for them to get there, but that money, once again, is not chicken feed.

 

[crxpilot]

60K in 10 years? Heck I made 80K this year with ACA as a 5 year captain.......

 

[FN FAL]

60K in 10 years? Heck I made 80K this year with ACA as a 5 year captain.......

That's funny. On the same token (as I posted in another thread) I met a Dork Jet captain that was interested in knowing if we were hiring caravan pilots. I won't say what airline he works for, but he said he was pulling in 50,000 a year and was looking for a better quality of living. I'm not making this up. When I walked into the terminal on saturday to pick up freight, the county snow plow guy introduced me to this pilot, who was visiting with his wife as she worked the airline counter.

 

[Treme]

60K in 10 years? Heck I made 80K this year with ACA as a 5 year captain......./

5 years ago would have had you hired in around 1998. 1998-2000 major airline hiring and massive capacity increases driven by the economy made for more movement than at any other time in the history of the industry.

In essence you had an artificially fast upgrade time. Most pilots hired today will not experience such a rapid upgrade.

 

[jarhead]

Treme,

You are correct in your assessment of the time frame comment. My son was hired at Comair in January of 1997. That time frame and a year or two later, was a time of very rapid growth in most regional airlines. Speaking only about Comair, as it is the carrier that I am most familiar with, my son upgraded to captain as soon as he had 3000 hours tt, in late spring of 2000. That is basically a three year time frame from newbie FO, to CA. I don’t think those upgrade times are realistic at this time.

Bobbysamd,

You are also correct about senior captains at Comair making 90K or more. The fact is, my son with 7 years at CMR makes over 90K a year, with his override as a flight simulator instructor. Seven years is not all that senior, IMHO. Very senior guys at CMR are pulling down over 100K per year, with 12 year seniority dates

 

[Tripower455]

Some good advice here.

IMHO, get the first job that will get you PIC turbine time. When the pendulum swings the other way, you will be hirable.

Like it or not, the commuters will most likely always be a far second choice when it comes to a career, and the quicker you can step off that stone, the better off you'll be.

I spent 10 years waiting for the commuter life to get better, and it never did. All of the stress (and then some) of a major job, with few of the benefits.

I am SO glad that we never got RJ's, since that might have been just enough incentive to keep me from pursuing a major job! In retrospect, the hosings that I took as a commuter pilot were the best thing that's ever happened to me, career wise!

Just my $.02.......

 

[Treme]

With all due respect you have to know that your position as a pilot with Southwest is the minority.

Only a very, very, VERY small percentage of pilots will ever have the opportunity to put on a Southwest uniform.

With over 12,000 pilots furloughed from major airlines and "regional jets" approaching the 100+ seat mark, it is far more likely that the majority of pilots will make their careers at the so-called "regional" airlines whether they like it or not.

Many of us who are re-starting our careers after yet another furlough are doing the same thing.

My advice would be to find a company where you can expect a reasonable quality of life, realistic pay, and (at least the appearance of job-security).

Why sacrifice in the short term for a job that, at least for the time being, doesnt really exist. Go for the job that will permit you to take care of yourself and your family -- even if the upgrade time is a little longer.

IF, years from now when the majors are in a hiring mode again, you choose to move on... great. If you choose NOT to move on, then you're already in a good place.

I wish that Southwest would offer a job to every pilot on this message board (especially those of us with 737 types and thousands of hours in type) but thats a lot like buying a lottery ticket -- you have a shot, but in percentages, its not particularly likely.

 

[Tripower455]

With all due respect you have to know that your position as a pilot with Southwest is the minority.

That might be true, but there is a heck of a lot better chance of getting hired at SWA right now than at any other major. The only way to get hired at SWA is to have more than 1000 hrs PIC turbine. Most likely, the best way to get that is with a small commuter. The pay sucks, the benefits suck, the working conditions suck, but sooner or later, if you keep on trying, you will get hired, if you make PIC. 4000 hrs sic in a turboprop or RJ at a "good" commuter isn't as good as 1000 PIC turboprop at a crummy one, if you are looking to go further in your career than a commuter. If your goal IS to work and stay at a commuter, then by all means, pick one with better benefits and pay.

FWIW. I bought my type in 1994 for the express purpose of getting an INTERVIEW with SWA when no one else was hiring (sound familiar). My chances were just/almost as slim then (a lot of my peers thouight I was nuts) but what got me my job was my extensive experience as PIC in the various (7, plus DHL) commuters that I flew for in the 10 years prior to SWA. I am not too sure that if I had spent most of those 10 years in the right seat that I'd have gotten the interview at all, much less the job.

With over 12,000 pilots furloughed from major airlines and "regional jets" approaching the 100+ seat mark, it is far more likely that the majority of pilots will make their careers at the so-called "regional" airlines whether they like it or not.

We are in a down cycle right now. As long as the tsA keeps us all safe from another 9/11, the cycle will turn up. Your point about the regionals is well taken though. As scope language deteriorates, more and more mainline flying is being done by the regionals, so maybe the future does belong to the RJ.

I wish that Southwest would offer a job to every pilot on this message board (especially those of us with 737 types and thousands of hours in type) but thats a lot like buying a lottery ticket -- you have a shot, but in percentages, its not particularly likely.

Just a few years ago, when all of the majors were hiring, we couldn't fill the NH classes. People were no showing right and left, and we even had a few guys jump ship and go to UAL and USAir(which I thought was dumb, even then). That's when SWA dropped the type requirement for the interview. The cycle will change again.

Given a choice, go for the job with the quickest upgrade to PIC........

Again, just my opinion, based on my own experience......

 

[shroomwell]

Everybody keeps saying that the RJ's are the future and they will be taking passengers from the larger planes. The way I see it is that airports are already crowed enough. If RJ's do alot of the flying then you have to have more flights to transport the same amount of people. Are airport capacities going to be able to handle the increase in flights?

 

[blueridge71]

RJ captains definitely make enough to live comfortably. For a junior captain on reserve assume $60 per hour and 75 hour guarantee. That's $4500 per month and $54,000 annually as base pay. With seniority and a hard line, you'd make much more.

As far as majors, the ones that survive may not be recalling furloughees for years and may not hire for years after that.

On the other hand, low fare carriers are growing and hiring.

Keep your options open, but don't discount spending your career in an RJ.