MAF/pilot shortage

[Snakum]

If you were/are associated with Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism, or some other un-Godly cult

Well ... well ... well ... there it is, in a nutshell. That little attitude of yours is the reason for Muslims killing Jews, Christains killing Muslims, Christians killing Christians. Religious zealotry among misguided, superstitious, arrogant nutjobs has always been among the most dangerous things in the world. "If you don't believe eggzackery like I do ... you're doomed and, well ... you're my enemy. Everyone's wrong but me."

It's a small step from that little statement of yours to driving an airliner into a building, sawing the heads off young businessmen, shooting a doctor, ethnic cleansing, or bombing a clinic. A small step. A very small step.

You sir, and those like you, scare me. You are a schizotypical sociopath and the seeds of violence have already been sown in your family. You're probably raising a couple little bombmakers right now.

Minh

 

[SATCFI]

2Corinthians 6:14 says "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?"

So, as believers, were are not to felllowship or partner with unbelievers, which explains the doctrinal requirement of MAF membership or organizations like them.

I'm sure glad Christ didn't subscribe to this. How do you propose to obey the great commission if you don't associated with unbelievers?

 

[onthebeach]

>>Well ... well ... well ... there it is, in a nutshell. That little attitude of yours is the reason for Muslims killing Jews, Christains killing Muslims, Christians killing Christians. Religious zealotry among misguided, superstitious, arrogant nutjobs has always been among the most dangerous things in the world. "If you don't believe eggzackery like I do ... you're doomed and, well ... you're my enemy. Everyone's wrong but me."

It's a small step from that little statement of yours to driving an airliner into a building, sawing the heads off young businessmen, shooting a doctor, ethnic cleansing, or bombing a clinic. A small step. A very small step.

You sir, and those like you, scare me. You are a schizotypical sociopath and the seeds of violence have already been sown in your family. You're probably raising a couple little bombmakers right now.<<

You don't know me, and by your words above it is apparent that you do not know or understand the teachings of Christ.

The difference between Christ's teachings and those of Islam could not be greater. Islam teaches that the unbelieving infidel is to be destroyed...killed. Jews and Christians..."people of the book"...are to be allowed the privilege of living under Islamic earthly government, at the price of paying tribute, and other penalties befitting their status as second-class citizens.

Call me ignorant...but that's the word from the Quran. Read it for yourself. As an aside, the fact that people calling themselves "muslims" are killing the "people of the book" is proof positive that they are not true to the teachings of Islam.

Christ, on the other hand, taught that we should love and pray for our enemies. If you will read your history, *all* of the wars that were fought strictly in the *name* of Christianity were under the auspices of the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman "church" is unbiblical, unscriptural, and in error in every way from the Word of God as revealed in the Bible. It has deceived, and is deceiving, millions into believing that they are going to Heaven.

The United States is not at war in Iraq in the name of Christianity. If you want to know about war in the name of "Chrisitanity," study the Roman "church's" persecution of the Waldensians, Albegensians, and the Huguenots, as well as the history of the Spanish Inquisition.


Just as would reject as specious the argument that I, as a white man, bear some kind of present-day responsibility for the enslavement of blacks by whites in our history, I vehemently reject any association of myself, as a disciple of Jesus Christ, with the past practices of blasphemers purporting to act in His Name, while committing all sorts of deviltry.

You might try reading and attempting to understand the Words of Christ in the Bible. "If any man seek wisdom, let him ask of God"--James. If you and I paid more attention to what Christ said, instead of taking some man's word for what he said, or believing some "church's" dogma about what he said, we would all get a real blessing.

A real source of problems and frustrations in our world today is the fact that almost everyone in this generation has *little* or *no* first-hand knowledge of what the Word of God says. Therefore, they assert what someone has told them, or their own opinions.

God is God, and we are not. His Word is His Word, and our opinions don't count against it. If you have trouble with this way of thinking, that is because you are in need of a Savior.

I forgive you for all those crude remarks and insinuations, as Christ commanded. I am praying for you, and I hope you will come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ as the *only* Way, the *only* Truth, and the *only* Life. These are His own Words in which He described Himself, and I have taken Him at His Word.

 

[Snakum]

You might try reading and attempting to understand the Words of Christ in the Bible.

I might try wiping my @ss with it instead.

I noticed you didn't defend nor explain your remarks, which my post was intended to take a shot at.

So ... every single Christian, except fundamentalist Christians who believe eggzackery as you do are merely members of an "unGodly cult"? Did we understand you correctly? I just wanna make sure I've painted you with the proper brush. And I believe I have.

Minh

(Apologies to those Christians who aren't quite the nutjob this guy is (you know who you are) for the butt-wiping remark. I jest cain't hep myself with people like him and 100LL. )

 

[onthebeach]

>>If you were/are associated with Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism, or some other un-Godly cult<<

Snakum, apparently you want me to analyze this statement of mine for you. Glad to do it. Before we get started, though, I notice you apologized to Christians for your blasphemous remark about what you could do with God's Word, the Bible. You should know that you have not offended me, or any other believer by your blasphemy; rather, you have sinned against God. If you are truly sorry, it is to Him that you should apologize. I hope you will.

Now that we have that out of the way:

Mormonism is an ungodly cult. I assume you aren't familiar with the teachings, so in a "nutshell" (as you are fond of saying), Mormons believe in and teach such things as proxy baptism for the dead, and that believing & practicing Mormons can, and will, become gods themselves...gods like Jehovah God. They believe that Jesus and Lucifer (yes, *that* Lucifer) are brothers...sons of the same god, who used to be a man. They believe in "another gospel" of Jesus Christ, apart from the Bible. Now, these teachings are about as far from Christ's teachings as possible; in fact, of the things I have mentioned, either they are *completely absent* from the Bible, or the Bible *directly contradicts them*.. So, if I say that Mormonism is an ungodly cult, what *exactly* do you have a problem with? Could it be that you are ignorant of Mormonism, or God's Word, or both?

Jehovah's Witnesses is an ungodly cult. I assume you aren't familiar with the teachings, so in a "nutshell" (as you are fond of saying), Jehovah's Witnesses believe in and teach such things as only a limited/finite number of people being saved from Hell, and that Jesus is not truly God, i.e., equivalent to God the Father...one and inseparable...which Jesus Himself claimed: "I and the Father are One." Now, these teachings are about as far from Christ's teachings as possible; in fact, of the things I have mentioned, either they are *completely absent* from the Bible, or the Bible *directly contradicts them*. So, if I say that Jehovah's Witnesses is an ungodly cult, what *exactly* do you have a problem with? Could it be that you are ignorant of JW teachings, or God's Word, or both?

The Roman Catholic "church" is an ungodly cult. I assume you aren't familiar with the teachings, so in a "nutshell" (as you are fond of saying), the Roman "church" believes in and teaches such things that "baptism" into the "church" and observance of the "sacraments" will get you to Heaven; that there is an earthly organization headed by an infallible human being (whose "infallible" words have been changed many times throughout the centuries); that after death, salvation is possible; that prayer can be to departed believers, instead of God; and...well, I could go on, but you get the drift. Now, these teachings are about as far from Christ's teachings as possible; in fact, of the things I have mentioned, either they are *completely absent* from the Bible, or the Bible *directly contradicts them*. So, if I say that the Roman "church" is an ungodly cult, what *exactly* do you have a problem with? Could it be that you are ignorant of Catholicism's teachings, or God's Word, or both?

Snakum, the real issue here is acceptance or rejection of God's Word. Since God's Word is directly in opposition with a sinful world and its practices, the easy and popular thing to do is reject it. That is what you are doing. It shows the true condition of your heart...that you are a sinner who needs God's free gift of salvation, by faith in the sacrfice for sin that Jesus made on the Cross. You have to be willing to admit you are a sinner...be sorry for your sinful condition...be willing to turn from your sins, and to ask Him to save you. The Bible says that He will do that; and that "if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new."

By God's Grace, I am familiar with the Bible, and I believe what it says; but, by your own words, it is evident that you either are completly ignorant of the Bible, or that you know what it says, but that you reject it as untrue? Which is it? and, WHY?

The Bible says that if any man loves Jesus, he will keep his commandments. It says that all have sinned, and come short of the Glory of God. It says that the wages of sin is death. It says that God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son...that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but shall have eternal life. It says that no man comes to the Father, but by Jesus, the Son. That's what Jesus said.

If you reject God's Word, you reject God. If you reject God, you will die in your sins. If you die in your sins, you will remain separated from God for all eternity. That means Hell. Hell is real. Jesus talked about Hell more than any other personality in the Bible. He believes that the lost are going there. That means they are. If you are lost, this means you. I urge you to get right with God while you have time.

I am praying that you will decide for Christ.

 

[Timebuilder]

I've said nothing about "personal problems," mate. Nor do I want your feelings, good, bad, or otherwise.

How about sticking to avaition, then, instead of bible thumping. The sound is reverberating to the point of extreme annoyance. Hawk Jesus some place else. I realize now that this is how you're going to get saved...squawking His name over and over until you've beat it into everyone by "confessing it" enough.

Enough is enough. Shut up already. You're saved. We get it.

How soon you forget. You've posted those problems, at least by oblique reference. Maybe that's a little cloudy. I'm not going to bring them up here, I'm just trying to figure out why this bothers you so much. Conscience? Naw, not you.

Apparently, you don't yet understand the process of salvation. It isn't a matter of "squawking His name over and over until you've beat it into everyone by "confessing it" enough." That isn't a necessity. However, the believer IS tasked to spread the Gospel. Everywhere.

Even to nasty curmudgeons.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm sure glad Christ didn't subscribe to this. How do you propose to obey the great commission if you don't associated with unbelievers?

Now, go back and read it again.

We can associate with all kinds of people. That's why Christ ate with tax collectors, prostitues, and others. He did not partner with them in a ministry. None of the disciples worked with Christ until they had set aside their old beliefs, such as was the case with Saul on the road to Emmaus. Before he could work together with Christ, he had to give up his Old Ways.

So, Christ was 100% consistent with the scripture. None of the many disreputable persons He ministered to became people who worked with Him, until they expereinced the change of heart that was a requirement.

Being yoked with unbelievers is not Biblical. Bringing them the Word, IS.

 

[Timebuilder]

So ... every single Christian, except fundamentalist Christians who believe eggzackery as you do are merely members of an "unGodly cult"? Did we understand you correctly? I just wanna make sure I've painted you with the proper brush.

Mihn has raised what is a very good question. How does one recognize a "cult?"

Simply, you find out who they think Jesus is.

Prophet? Cult.

Wise man? Cult?

Enlightened leader? Cult.

A guy who created a new scripture based on appearances in America in colonial times? Cult.

A guy in Waco who says he's Jesus? Cult.

In other words, the person of Jesus is made clear in the Bible, and as scripture from God, the Bible is 100% sufficient. No other doctrine, no other books, no other prophets.

Acts 4:12. No other name.

Otherwise, it is probably a cult.

A cult. Occult. Hmm. Could be a connection there.

 

[redd]

You're elitist piousness and tone of superiority does not impress me.

You people must be whack jobs to think you can denegrate someone else's beliefs and think that garners you success in reaching their heart and is somehow related to winning souls to christ. Do you honestly think that you have more rights to own your beliefs than anyone else? You must be whacked if you think any one else's opinions about their personal relationships with God don't matter, that only yours does. Disrespecting the other person's beliefs just insults them. I don't care what you believe, but if you don't show me respect I will never listen to you. You even call names, don't you know that you must be an example in all ways if you are to claim superiority, you have already failed. A true leader leads by example.

What you don't know about the love of God and winning souls is a lot, your words speak volumes about your ignorance. Try practicing loving your neighbor as yourself in deed and in action then speak of the gospell. This elitist attitude makes me sick.

Timebuilder and onthebeach you shred and offend your opponent with words, you cry cult and taunt and bite with condescending cutting words of "I'll pray for you, your wrong , your misguided, personal problems!" You do not acknowledge belief and sevice to God in whatever form, but denegrade it, criticize it and mock it. Much like the treatment Christ received from the Pharisees and Saducees, they were very convinced they were right too.

Why not lead by example, why not be glad that others recognize God and the role of spirituality in their lives rather than condeming them because they do not believe exactly as you do. You must learn to be thankful for what you do have, and not condemn others for what you percieve they don't know, offending and insulting others is no way to bring them to Christ.

God is real big on feedom of will, you do more harm than good beating anyone up for their beliefs, and pounding in yours, you do not have the market cornered on truth! God would have all men to be saved, and come to a knowledge of the truth, but it is all about a loving relationship between him and us, without the love, the words fall to ground and are meaningless.

Your intensions might be good, but you cannot be insulting and elitist in your delivery, if you are, you are the ignorant one, you are THE ZEALOT, if you know all things but have not charity-love, it is nothing. Argue with that, I dare ya.

It's like you're not even trying to spread the gospell, you're trying to righteous-ize everyone else, making sure they are practicing the "right" way, making sure they submit to your rule of practice and then they'll be okay.

Let's be honest, your words do not convey that you are really trying to be loving in promoting the gospell, your ending words say you are trying to win an arguement, you feel slighted and must get the last blow in the fight. Don't bring God into this fight, shame on you!

 

[Timebuilder]

Do you honestly think that you have more rights to own your beliefs than anyone else? You must be whacked if you think any one else's opinions about their personal relationships with God don't matter, that only yours does.

I think this one quote pretty much captures the tone of your post, so I'll address it before I go and start my day.

Your criticism is based on a fallacy, a common one, to be sure, but it is false none the less.

Do I think I have more "rights" to my beliefs than someonne else? No. The "right" to have a belief is guaranteed by the constitution.

Does someone else's opinon "matter?" Yes, expecially if their mislead and misinformed opinion leads them to fly airplanes into our buildings. Aside from that, it is simplly a matter of what they believe versus what God teaches.

My opinon does NOT matter. Only God's does, and it is the only opinion of ANY importance in the grand scheme of things.

If you approach this question from the ecumenical viewpoint that somehow all beliefs are equally valuable, and somehow all lead you to a relationship with God, in the manner that HE determines is acceptable, then you would be wrong.

That's God's opinon, not mine. I merely follow it.

and yes, shame on you for not following what God says. There IS no argument.

 

[jbDC9]

If you reject God's Word, you reject God. If you reject God, you will die in your sins. If you die in your sins, you will remain separated from God for all eternity. That means Hell. Hell is real. Jesus talked about Hell more than any other personality in the Bible. He believes that the lost are going there. That means they are. If you are lost, this means you. I urge you to get right with God while you have time.

I am praying that you will decide for Christ.

Oh man, the arrogance of you wack-job bible thumpers.... to the whole statement listed above, my response is "Oh yeah? Says who??" Don't say god or jesus or "it says so in the bible". I don't read or believe in that stuff, so it means nothing to me. When I die, happy with all my sinning, I'm gonna be dead. Period. Worm food. It's a biological thing, has nothing to do with some dude wearing robes thumping on a big fat book a couple thousand years ago.

Uh oh, here comes another arrogant little snippet, this time compliments of Timebuilder;

and yes, shame on you for not following what God says. There IS no argument.

Uh oh, I feel an argument coming on... So, I can't think or do for myself, I gotta blindly follow some dude I don't believe in?? Now where's the logic in that? No wonder you bible thumpers appear to be brainwashed, you're not allowed to think on your own, gotta follow what The Man says. Pretty freakin' pathetic...

 

[aewanabe]

>>If you were/are associated with Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism, or some other un-Godly cult<<


The Roman Catholic "church" is an ungodly cult. I assume you aren't familiar with the teachings, so in a "nutshell" (as you are fond of saying), the Roman "church" believes in and teaches such things that "baptism" into the "church" and observance of the "sacraments" will get you to Heaven; that there is an earthly organization headed by an infallible human being (whose "infallible" words have been changed many times throughout the centuries); that after death, salvation is possible; that prayer can be to departed believers, instead of God; and...well, I could go on, but you get the drift. Now, these teachings are about as far from Christ's teachings as possible; in fact, of the things I have mentioned, either they are *completely absent* from the Bible, or the Bible *directly contradicts them*. So, if I say that the Roman "church" is an ungodly cult, what *exactly* do you have a problem with? Could it be that you are ignorant of Catholicism's teachings, or God's Word, or both?<<

Exactly where do you get your information about Roman Catholicism? Have you attended Mass once or twice and then presumed to know the meaning of every rite and ritual? Is your hatred through the teaching of whichever branch of Christianity you follow? Or has Christ spoken directly to you?

I'll try to debunk your idiotic fallacies one by one:

1) Baptism into the "Church" means not just the Roman Catholic church. We actually define "church" as being the LARGER COMMUNITY OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST. This includes ALL baptized Christians, not just Catholics. (See John the Baptist for the first example of this practice).

2) Observance of the sacraments is, for us, a structural way to demonstrate our closeness to Christ, but it will not get you into Heaven. Only what is in your heart, your deeds as a Christian, and being "saved" (we just don't call it that) will get you into Heaven. Our sacrament of Confirmation, taken at 10 years old or whenever you join the church (if you weren't Catholic as a child) formalizes a person's one-on-one relationship with Christ. We don't teach that skipping any one or combination of the sacraments will guarantee a person admittance to Hell, but we DO teach that one sacrament, Reconciliation, will reconcile you with God if performed with a pure heart. This will earn you admittance into heaven. Note that only God, not man, can tell if your heart truly is pure.

3) The Pope is NOT infallible. The church does not teach that. Merely that the Pope is a man who, through his lifelong commitment to the Lord and his spirituality, is better placed to guide us on structural matters of living the Lord's life than we are. Unfortunately, since the Pope is human, we have in centuries past had men rise to that position who were probably neither good nor pious. (See Peter "you will be the rock upon which I build my church" for the first Pope.)

4) Nowhere does Catholicism teach that salvation is possible after death. We DO teach that salvation is possible right up to the moment of one's death; after that, well, you had your chance during your time on earth. Did you get that idea because we pray for the souls of those who have already departed?

5) Lastly, one of the most commonly-cited fallacies about Catholicism from those who are ignorant, and would rather hate than learn. We do not pray TO saints. Ever. Prayers such as the Hail Mary are requests for the Saints to pray FOR us. We call these intercessions. Ever prayed for another person, or asked someone to pray for you? You have? That's exactly what we are doing when we say a Hail Mary.

What's really funny and sad about all this hatred is that it stems from Mortal Man's interpretation of the Bible. When those of you who denigrate Catholicism claim we are not "of the book" it proves exactly how selectively you've read that book. For indeed, Roman Catholicism is the ONLY religion that is directly linked to the New Testament. Everyone else became misguided when good ole' Martin Luther started screwing things up for you. And yet, we don't preach that you're all going to hell. Interesting, huh?

Fly Safe.

 

[onthebeach]

For two reasons, I'm delighted to have a chance to discuss the Roman "church" with aewanabe, one of its adherents, and anyone else who cares to defend it.

First, because a discussion of this type allows more truth from God's Word to come out.

Second, because of the possibility that aewanabe and others deceived by Catholicism can come out of that cult, if they face up to the fact that the Roman "church" is not based on Scripture, but rather the traditions of men.

These include many pagan elements adapted from the religions of Rome and barbaric tribes which had increasing influence upon the Empire in the period before the Fall and the ensuing dark ages.

I anticipate many replies and a long dialogue, so there is no need to address every point at once. Therefore I will point out only a few of the unscriptural errors in common Catholic doctrine at this time. We can discuss all the others as they come up.

First: Please quote Scripture...any scripture, even the apocryphal books included in the Douay Bible, but *not* allowed as canon of Scripture by the earliest Councils, which states that the Apostle Peter was the first Pope.

Second: If you are not "praying" to Mary the mother of Jesus, or to a canonized saint when you ask her/them to intercede for you, or for some other cause, exactly what are you doing? I think that most people would define a verbal or thought petition to a spiritual being whose earthly body was deceased, i.e., who is no longer in temporal existence, as a "prayer." Perhaps Catholics call it something else.

Third: A two-parter: 1) Please cite any Scripture requiring a celibate priesthood. 2) Explain why a celibate priesthood is Scriptural and Godly despite a) the fact, recorded in the Gospels, that Peter was married (NOTE: If you contend that he abandoned his family upon entering the Apostolic office, cite Scripture stating this); b) The Pauline doctrine allowing/limiting a "bishop" to be "the husband of one wife" (1Timothy 3:2).

Fourth: Please discuss the following Scriptures in light of Roman doctrine:
a) "And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ (Words of Jesus: Matthew, 23:9-10)."
b) "...there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1Timothy 2:5.

Many other points can and no doubt will be brought out in further debate.

However, the point I think has been clearly made that these Roman doctrines, and others, fall into one of two broad categories:

1. Extra-Scriptural doctrine, i.e., that derived from authority other than canon Scripture, and therefore the "traditions of men," which Jesus specifically condemned in Mark 7:13: "Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered; and many such like things do ye."

2: Unscriptural doctrines, i.e., those that directly contradict canon Scripture. Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed (John 8:31)." John wrote, "He that saith, I know him [Jesus], and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

In this post I have not attacked anyone, but rather have attempted to point out the error and deceit that is the very foundation of Roman "doctrine." It is an edifice of lies and heresies that has deceived many into Hell fire. It would be constructive to have someone put forth a defense of Romanism, but Scripturally, the "church" of Rome and its doctrines are indefensible.

Just as indefensible are any other un-Scriptural "doctrines" or "beliefs" adhered to by many Protestant denominations, and those promulgated by other cults such as LDS, JW, etc.

I appreciate aewanabe's viewpoint that any discussion of Catholicism should be derived from knowledge that can be referenced, as I believe I have done. However, what he and many other Catholics fail to see (being too close to the problem), is that their view of Scripture, Catholicism, and Protestantism is necessarily limited and confined because they have been led into deceit by the "church" hierarchy, tradition, and various forms of indoctrination, including parochial schooling, catechism, etc.

I have absolutely no "grudge" or dislike of any person because he or she happens to be a "believing," or as I would prefer to put it, a practicing Catholic. On the contrary, I pray for them out of concern for their souls. The Catholic "church" is greatly in error and will deceive those who cling to its demonic and un-Scriptural errors into eternal condemnation.

I hope that all who read this will be motivated to search the Scriptures to determine the Truth of God, and will find eternal salvation through Jesus, God's sacrifice for our sins.

 

[jbDC9]

I hope that all who read this will be motivated to search the Scriptures to determine the Truth of God, and will find eternal salvation through Jesus, God's sacrifice for our sins.

Nahh, no thanks, I'd rather go thumb thru a hard core porno mag than do something silly like that. Something really trashy and low grade would be nice... Can I find the "truth of god" in Penthouse Letters?

Jesus H Christ in a chickenbasket, you holy rollers never give up do ya? I should quit reading this drivel, it's gonna rot my brain.

 

[Timebuilder]

Oh man, the arrogance of you wack-job bible thumpers.... to the whole statement listed above, my response is "Oh yeah? Says who??" Don't say god or jesus or "it says so in the bible". I don't read or believe in that stuff, so it means nothing to me. When I die, happy with all my sinning, I'm gonna be dead. Period. Worm food. It's a biological thing, has nothing to do with some dude wearing robes thumping on a big fat book a couple thousand years ago.

Uh oh, here comes another arrogant little snippet, this time compliments of Timebuilder;



Uh oh, I feel an argument coming on... So, I can't think or do for myself, I gotta blindly follow some dude I don't believe in?? Now where's the logic in that? No wonder you bible thumpers appear to be brainwashed, you're not allowed to think on your own, gotta follow what The Man says. Pretty freakin' pathetic...

"Pretty freakin' pathetic."

Yeah, that kind of sums up what I got from your post.

 

[TurboS7]

God created what is in Penthouse, man just perverted it, to make the holy dollar at your expense.

 

[PsubS]

Hoookay, here's a question for ya, onthebeach. (Timebuilder and Turbo, you can chime in after a bit, ok?)

Does one have to believe in Jesus to attain entrance into heaven?

 

[Timebuilder]

Yes.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 14:1:3

1"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also."

In John 14:6

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

That last part is pretty explicit.

 

[PsubS]

Are there any exceptions? For adults, that is...

 

[EagleRJ]

Timebuilder and onthebeach,

I'm puzzled. The last time I was aware of when there were Christians with wild hatred such as yours, was Ulster, Northern Ireland during the Troubles in the 1980s.

More recently, I'm afraid we only have to look as far as the Taliban to find a religious group with such an attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness. Do you guys really believe this stuff? Is this what they teach you in church? I think it's safe to say that Christians everywhere are embarrassed by your views, much like a family that grudgingly recognizes a reletive in prison.

All of the arguments you have against other Christian religions could easily be turned against Evangelical Christianity to show that it's actually a godless cult. No one does, because we accept the differing practices and beliefs of Christians around the world. I would guess that God does too.

Maybe you should give it a try!

 

[Snoopy58]

I think it's safe to say that Christians everywhere are embarrassed by your views,

And you'd be wrong. Their views on the Bible and salvation by grace through faith in Christ are absolutely mainstream. While some liberal churches and seminaries have abandoned the Bible as the source of God's truth to man, mainstream Christianity is based on the Bible as God's Word, accurate & authoritative. And the guys you mock are explaining what it says, and what those who believe it, belive.

All of the arguments you have against other Christian religions could easily be turned against Evangelical Christianity to show that it's actually a godless cult.

You can spin any way you want, but the simple fact is that what the LDS & the JW's believe is inconsistent with what the Bible teaches, and mainstream Roman Catholicism has a lot of teachings that are extra-Biblical. If you accept the Bible as accurate & authoritative, then the LDS & JWs & RC's are going to be at odds with what you accept as Truth. But, if for you, truth is relative and "all paths lead to God" and the Bible can be "take it or leave it," then of course any claims to absolute standards of truth make no sense. If you refuse to accept an absolute standard of right & wrong from the God who created the universe, then you'll always have problems with the Bible and with Christianity. There is no honest way to reconcile the relativism and the Bible.

we accept the differing practices and beliefs of Christians around the world.

Define "Christian." If you will accept anyone who claims to be a Christian as such without any regard to what they actually believe and teach and practice, then the term has little meaning. If you accept as Christian those who believe & follow the Bible, then your statement only makes sense if "differing practices & beliefs" refers to differences of form rather than substance (contemporary music vs traditional, etc). Who is the "we" you refer to?

I would guess that God does too.

If you do not accept the Bible as the accurate & authoritative word of God, then guessing is what you have to go on. Or leaning on whatever seems to make sense to you, which is about the same. Or find some other source of wisdom from God (perhaps the Koran or L. Ron Hubbard), but at that point you should acknowlege where you're coming from.

Or, if you do accept the Bible as what it claims to be, you might have some insigts into what God does and doesn't accept. Timebuilder quoted the relevant passages to you above.

 

[redd]

Seeing they see not, hearing they hear..

There are none so blind as those who cannot see.

This is not about the bible, this is about two posters who commited a breach of ettiquette, were rude, borish, baiting, arrogant and insulting to others.

It is about individuals justifying this behavior by saying they are spreading the gospell and this gives them the right to disrespect and abuse others.

This is accurate reproof and if they have a brain, they should think about it, that is, if their goal really is trying to help people.

This is not about the truth of the Word of God and to what extent individuals or organizations hold it or embody it. This is about walking in wisdom toward others, about respecting others, not about what they need to believe in order to be saved, or walk in as christians. Get it??

There are plenty of discussions here on this board about God and the bible that are thought provoking, informative and interesting, it is just these two tend to drag it down to a personal slanderous level and they do it with such an elitist tone, it really is a shame.

I happen to like God and the bible, and I hate when He gets represented this way.

 

[Timebuilder]

Timebuilder and onthebeach,

I'm puzzled. The last time I was aware of when there were Christians with wild hatred such as yours, was Ulster, Northern Ireland during the Troubles in the 1980s.

More recently, I'm afraid we only have to look as far as the Taliban to find a religious group with such an attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness. Do you guys really believe this stuff? Is this what they teach you in church? I think it's safe to say that Christians everywhere are embarrassed by your views, much like a family that grudgingly recognizes a reletive in prison.

All of the arguments you have against other Christian religions could easily be turned against Evangelical Christianity to show that it's actually a godless cult. No one does, because we accept the differing practices and beliefs of Christians around the world. I would guess that God does too.

Maybe you should give it a try!

No, that's incorrect.

Cristian belief is based on Christ, the Christ of the Bible. It's His word, and no one else's. If you don't accept that, then you can't be a Christian. It's a simple as that.

Some people find the idea of God's objective truth to be offensive, particularly when viewed through the lens of an ecumenical, politically correct world.

Some people find their only argument in mentioning the Taliban, as if this is some sort of direct comparison, as if when you compare a 1964 Volkswagen and a Porsche you have found an important truth becuase they are both German automobiles.

You can be earnest in your views, and be wrong, or you can be earnest in your views and be right. Humans don't determine that, God DOES. It is essential for you to find that esseence of correctness so that you are no mislead. On a human level, a comparison between the Taliban and Christian teaching should reveal differences so obvious that even a secular person should easily see fruits of the comparison. I don't need to take you by the hand and point out those differences.

So, show me some "hatred" in anything I have said here. There isn't any. There is often compassion, nad sometimes pity, true, and an annoyance when folks who have had the truth explained multiple times still stubbornly cling to a falsehood, sometimes on pupose.

This is not about the bible, this is about two posters who commited a breach of ettiquette, were rude, borish, baiting, arrogant and insulting to others.

Show me where I have done that, my friend. You have a unique opinion, and have no basis to chastise except that you disagree with the sharing of truth.

It is about individuals justifying this behavior by saying they are spreading the gospell and this gives them the right to disrespect and abuse others.

Disrespect and abuse? Have you read some of the stuff that has been directed my way in these threads, and then read my reasoned and kind responses? Maybe not. Trust me, I come from a background where I can more than dish it out, and I have not done so here on this board.

This is accurate reproof and if they have a brain, they should think about it, that is, if their goal really is trying to help people.

My goal in threads like this is to correct the incorrect ideas floating about being shared by people who have not done their homework. Someone asks, I answer. Someone asserts, I correct. I never share an "opinion" on Bible matters, only ideas supported by scripture. This seems cruel and harsh to some modern folks, and you may be among them. Sharing the truth doesn not, however, make me mean or abusive.

This is not about the truth of the Word of God and to what extent individuals or organizations hold it or embody it. This is about walking in wisdom toward others, about respecting others, not about what they need to believe in order to be saved, or walk in as christians. Get it??

If you feel this way, review what the Bible says about how people are offended, and why, starting with the jews of the old testament. Most offen, offense cannot be avoided.

There are plenty of discussions here on this board about God and the bible that are thought provoking, informative and interesting, it is just these two tend to drag it down to a personal slanderous level and they do it with such an elitist tone, it really is a shame.

What is a shame is those who can read a Bible and fail to get the message.

It isn't inclusive of other beliefs.

It isn't ecumenical.

It isn't welcoming of sin.

It isn't one of many paths or equal beliefs.

It is tuth.

It is solid.

It is the sole word of God.

And it should not be hidden for fear of offending.


But as I said, find me a part where I have been mean or abusive, and not truthful. Heck, just find the mean or abusive part.

I'll check back tonight.

 

[EagleRJ]

Cristian belief is based on Christ, the Christ of the Bible. It's His word, and no one else's. If you don't accept that, then you can't be a Christian. It's a simple as that.

I guess I don't follow your drift here. Which Christian denominations do not believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings?

Some people find the idea of God's objective truth to be offensive, particularly when viewed through the lens of an ecumenical, politically correct world.

It's all in the interpretation. There are a lot of immoral, dangerous, or illegal things you could do and justify your actions using the Word. We've seen plenty of examples of this recently.

Example-
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them...

I'm sure you are aware that there are several individual churches whose followers dance with rattlesnakes and drink poisons to prove their faith. Some of them are injured or killed every year.
If you do not take up serpents as the Bible teaches, are you a weak Christian? Or do you, like most other Christians, recognize that it's an analogy for facing everyday threats with your faith?

Some people find their only argument in mentioning the Taliban, as if this is some sort of direct comparison, as if when you compare a 1964 Volkswagen and a Porsche you have found an important truth becuase they are both German automobiles.

You can be earnest in your views, and be wrong, or you can be earnest in your views and be right. Humans don't determine that, God DOES. It is essential for you to find that esseence of correctness so that you are no mislead. On a human level, a comparison between the Taliban and Christian teaching should reveal differences so obvious that even a secular person should easily see fruits of the comparison. I don't need to take you by the hand and point out those differences.

In terms of intolerance for other denominations of your own faith, a comparison to the Taliban is valid and appropriate. There's no violence directed by you towards other Christians- only distaste, or "pity" as you put it. Like I said though, one needs to go back only 20 years in Northern Ireland to find the fruits of this destructive attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness.

So, show me some "hatred" in anything I have said here. There isn't any. There is often compassion, nad sometimes pity, true, and an annoyance when folks who have had the truth explained multiple times still stubbornly cling to a falsehood, sometimes on pupose.

See? Those who's faith differs from yours are "cling[ing] to a falsehood". We should look to you for guidance on what the Bible really teaches, since you have the only true insight into God's Word. Arrogant.

What is a shame is those who can read a Bible and fail to get the message.

It isn't inclusive of other beliefs.

It isn't ecumenical.

It isn't welcoming of sin.

It isn't one of many paths or equal beliefs.

It is tuth.

It is solid.

It is the sole word of God.

And it should not be hidden for fear of offending.

I think we're all in agreement there. Interpretation of God's Word and tailoring your life to live within Christian doctrines is the foundation of Christianity. It's just that we don't need your help in achieving that!

-Peace

 

[TurboS7]

I stand shoulder to shoulder with timebuilder and on the beach.

 

[Timebuilder]

I guess I don't follow your drift here. Which Christian denominations do not believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings?

Well, we can start here, since this was a high profile event. The Bible says it is the inspired word of God. Mr. Robinson said he believed it was the word of God, but not "the words of God," which means that was his way of explaining how he thinks he can avoid the Biblical prohibition against homosexuality. Apparently, there is an entire church that claims to be "Christian" that agrees with him enough to make him a bishop, much less have any thought of taking his collar.


Gay Episcopal Bishop Elected
by 365Gay.com Newscenter Staff



Posted: June 8, 2003 12:02 a.m. ET


(Concord, New Hampshire) The Episcopal Church has voted in its first openly gay bishop.

Rev. V. Gene Robinson, 56, was elected Saturday by New Hampshire clergy and lay Episcopalians, beating out three other candidates.

Robinson must still be confirmed by the church's national General Convention next month. It is expected to be the subject of a heated debate as Anglicans worldwide attempt to reconcile church traditionalists and reformers.

Last week the appointment of a gay man as a bishop in England created a maelstrom of dissent among conservative Anglicans (story) and a Blessing Service for a gay couple in British Columbia (story) last month created ripples all the way to the door of the Archbishop of Canterbury the leader of the faith.

In 1998 bishops of the worldwide Anglican Church passed a resolution calling gay sex "incompatible with Scripture." Since then attempts to sidestep the rule have been met with opposition.

Robinson lives with his partner, Mark Andrew, in Weare, New Hampshire and is an assistant to retiring Bishop Douglas Theuner of Concord.
He is a popular preacher at area churches and has been active in local causes such as establishing "Concord Outright," a support group for teenagers.

Before coming out he was married and has two grown children.

Although Robinson is the first gay man to have voted into the position of bishop he is not the first gay bishop in the Episcopal Church.

Former Utah bishop Otis Charles came out in 1993 but only after announcing his retirement.

©365Gay.com® 2003

So, he is living by a false teaching, that by implication the Bible is not to be obeyed, but instead we should just make up our own doctrine when we prefer it to God's.

It's all in the interpretation. There are a lot of immoral, dangerous, or illegal things you could do and justify your actions using the Word. We've seen plenty of examples of this recently.

Example-
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them...

That an excellent example. What does it mean?

It means that a small cult has decided to take a piece of scripture as a commandment, that is, something that should be done, as opposed to understanding it as an example of the kind of power brought by the indwelling holy spirit. By the same token, because Christ and John the Baptist fasted in the desert for weeks on end, should we therefore conclude that we should do likewise?

Heck, I hate camping among scorpions. It's a good thing we don't have to imitate everything in the Bible. It's usually pretty clear that some things are meant to be examples of behavior, and other things are examples of ideas.

Or do you, like most other Christians, recognize that it's an analogy for facing everyday threats with your faith?

Well done. Neither does the scripture

Ephesians 6:11-18
11 "Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;"

mean that I should go clanking around looking like a fugitive from a Monty Python movie.

In terms of intolerance for other denominations of your own faith, a comparison to the Taliban is valid and appropriate.

If you have faith in God, and you believe that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is true, you must also be "intolerant" (how I love that old liberal favorite) of false teachings, false doctrines, and false beliefs. If God is right, and His word is true, then how can other views not consistent with God's word have any value?

The Taliban was a cult from an evil and false teaching that helped to inspire the killing of thousands of innocent lives. Comparing the Taliban to the righteousness of God is like comparing Michael Jackson to Pat Tillman.

There's no violence directed by you towards other Christians- only distaste, or "pity" as you put it.

I pity them because God's heart is broken for them, and they ignore the sacrifice He made as being a "myth." How sad is that? It's "pitiful."

Like I said though, one needs to go back only 20 years in Northern Ireland to find the fruits of this destructive attitude of exclusivity and rightiousness.

No one involved in the "troubles," as they were called, were Biblical Christians. The Catholics weren't, and the protestants were following a liberal Church of England Anglican doctrine. That same church is the Bristish source of the church mentioned above that just created a gay bishop. What does that tell you about Northern Ireland? It tells me it was a political dispute among two groups who divided themselves along "religious" lines, neither of whom were "believers."

See? Those who's faith differs from yours are "cling[ing] to a falsehood". We should look to you for guidance on what the Bible really teaches, since you have the only true insight into God's Word. Arrogant.

Sorry again. Fiirst of all "arrogant" should be spelled "accurate." Second, it makes no difference whatsoever if someone believes as I do. It makes ALL the difference if they believe something that does not come from GOD. That's the difference.

Ecumenical people see different beliefs as a sort of a spiritual "smorgasboard," where it doesn't really matter "how" or "what" you believe, as long as you believe it. This opens the door to a "do it yoursel" spirtuality, where anything goes, such as drinking poison, gay bishops, and flying planes into buildings.

Ecumenical views don't stand up to scripture. The Bible clearly says that it is 100% error free and inspired by God to be precisely what He intends. According to God, we are to spread HIS word, not just "accept" other ideas, nor make up our own as it suits us.

No, you should not look to "me" for guidance on what is true. You should look to the word of God. I have never advocated otherwise, except when I was an unsaved broadcaster. So if you have an argument, it isn't an argument with me. It is an argument with God.

I think we're all in agreement there. Interpretation of God's Word and tailoring your life to live within Christian doctrines is the foundation of Christianity. It's just that we don't need your help in achieving that!

I'm only telling you what the Bible says. What can the Bible be used for? It's the passage mentioned above.

2Timothy 3:16-17

"3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

3:17
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

So, no, I am not ashamed for standing up to false teaching, when as a believer, I am directed to hold my brothers and sisters to account, just as they also hold me to account. If I support a false teaching, using the Bible as the standard, I hope that you too, would correct me.

Does that help you to better understand my position? I hope so.

 

[Cat Driver]

Well, for an aviation forum this one sure takes some weird turns.

And I guess I'm going straight to hell when I die because I just do not believe.

Cat Driver:

 

[Timebuilder]

You're missing the most intersting and important part, Cat.

Until you assume room temperature, you still have a chance at not only being forgiven, which is given without question (because the price has already been paid) but you also are given a joyful and fulfilling eternal life to enjoy without all the crap we have here on earth, in these weak and deteriorating bodies.

Let me ask you: what is the "down side" to believing?

 

[Timebuilder]

Bumped for EagleRJ.

 

[TurboS7]

That is a good sign Cat. Before you can believe you have to admit and know that you are going straight to hell.Romans3:23 That All for sure includes Timebuilder and myself. You are on the right track......