Madison newspaper editorial response

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by ifly4food
And when that passenger...contact your company to say a drunk pilot flew the flight what will you do? Once the flight is completed you can't prove your were sober at takeoff. [Italics mine.] Are you willing to bet your career that the passenger was only joking?

This is exactly the point. Mr. Wiese was joking and, had the flight proceeded on schedule, probably wouldn't have thought any more about it.

Now, what about a little old lady sitting in seat 1B who heard someone say something about "the pilots drinking?" She sits there in quiet fear until the plane gets to CVG, then goes home and writes a letter to Mother Delta about the drunk pilot that flew her out of Madison. Nobody will be able to prove anything one way or the other, but do you really need that on your record?

Think it can't happen? Ask the SunJet International captain who, according to a passenger report to the FAA, flew a broken MD-80. (The passenger saw the '80's elevators pointing in different directions--as they do sometimes since they're not interconnected--and told the FAA that the airplane had "broken tail ailerons." Silly, but the feds are still required to investigate.)

This is a lot like the "should I declare an emergency" issue. Is there a good reason for not covering your as_?

If I were in this situation, would I like to avoid a five hour delay for some silly remark? He-l yeah! But for the reasons I've outlined above...uh huh, I think I'd have done the same thing this captain did.

Most of you who disagree are more senior and closer to retirement than I am. I'm naturally a little more defensive of my career since I have such a long way to go!

 

[sf3boy]

Any airline crew that does not pull themselves off the plane for drug testing after a passenger accuses them of drinking is an idiot at best. Especially since all the TSA and ATC people are now in "catch the drunk pilots" mode.

I had a friend who recently had ATC accuse him and his FO of flying their DC-9 drunk. Of course ATC did not directly accuse them, they just had all the TSA jerks waiting at the gate of the arrival city. Both blew 0.0000000. Sounds like an excellent lawsuit to me.

I myself spent way to much time and money for this career to have some ass clown passenger throwing around jokes or insinuations that might get me fired. Lord knows that the professionals that run my airline would believe everyone but the pilot.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I myself spent way to much time and money for this career to have some ass clown passenger throwing around jokes or insinuations that might get me fired [emphasis added].

"Ass clown?" Can I borrow that? That's funny!

 

[TWA Dude]

Any airline crew that does not pull themselves off the plane for drug testing after a passenger accuses them of drinking is an idiot at best.

I agree, but only when there's an actual serious accusation. A flippant remark may or may not constitute an accusation depending on the circumstances. If I were you I'd be more carefull about calling other pilots idiots because they don't share your view of the world.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by TWA Dude
I agree, but only when there's an actual serious accusation. A flippant remark may or may not constitute an accusation depending on the circumstances. If I were you I'd be more carefull about calling other pilots idiots because they don't share your view of the world.

Well, be easy on sf3boy. He wasn't talking about this editorial, he was talking about an accusation. And he's right, if you don't act after an accusation, you are an idiot!

Now as far as flippant comments are concerned, that's up to the individual...but like I said previously, if you do nothing at all, you're playin Russian roulette with whoever might have partially overheard the comment out of context.

Here's the good news: most--if not all--chief pilots will back you up whichever way you go...if it was a joke and not an accusation.

Remember that we all don't think the same. Some people may come off like they're joking when they are, in fact, very serious. In that case, maybe taking them aside and having a little chat with them is in order.

 

[TXCAP4228]

I don't fly for a living, but I know under part 91 it says I am not allowed to transport an intoxicated passenger. If this is not true for 121 operations then ok. However, if it is true for 121 operations then the crew ought to make a similar statement to the offending passenger and insist that the passenger be tested before pushing back.

After all, we just want to comply with the law here, right?

How would the press report that?

 

[sf3boy]

twadude,
Your airline must be very trusting or else mine is just the opposite. Our pilots our ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. Especially since they are in the mood to keep displacing and furloughing.

If you can tell if a passenger is joking or not, then you are a better judge of character than I. I consistently have passengers that always know more than myself about weather, maintenance, FAR's, and airmanship & are not afraid to let me know about it. But, maybe they are just kidding around when they tell me that they have never seen such lousy air service.

And by the way, I can not take the credit for ass clown. It was from a movie.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by sf3boy
I consistently have passengers that always know more than myself about weather, maintenance, FAR's, and airmanship & are not afraid to let me know about it.

My favorite was the ass clown (I love that!) who sent me a note asking me to "please turn the yaw dampener* on." (Maybe I was heavy on the rudder that day...?)

I should have told him "the yaw is already plenty damp, thanks."


*I've actually heard pilots pronounce it this way, too.

 

[TWA Dude]

twadude,
Your airline must be very trusting or else mine is just the opposite. Our pilots our ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. Especially since they are in the mood to keep displacing and furloughing.

The key is that when the captain handled the problem directly the company never knew about it. (An incident report could be submitted afterwards but that was usually just for unrulyness.) To answer your question, TWA was very supportive of its captains when they used their judgement in dealing with the pax.

If you can tell if a passenger is joking or not, then you are a better judge of character than I.

If I had any doubt I'd ask them. Pax are pretty much ignorant of the seriousness of their statements so when queried they quicky figure it out and shut up.

 

[Dieterly]

TWA was very supportive of its captains when they used their judgement in dealing with the pax.

One of the great things working for a REAL airline, the captains IS allowed to act like one.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by Dieterly
One of the great things working for a REAL airline, the captains IS allowed to act like one.

When my father was a captain at Eastern ('66--'89) captains were allowed to decide on their own how much fuel they would carry, when the plane would be boarded, how many engines they'd use for taxi, when they'd run the APU, etc.

My understanding is that's not true at most majors anymore.

 

[KigAir]

Iam surprised the Wiese's baggage didn't get routed to Asia..

 

[flyndesk]

??

I was the captain on the B-1900 in the east a few years back. During the 15 min downtime at the tiny, little, middle-of-nowhere airport, I decided to get an apple out of my bag, which was in the cargo compartment in the rear of the aircraft. When I came back inside the terminal, a 75 year old man asked me if I was checking my stash of pot. (Bizarre!) I calmly held up my apple, and told him we do not make jokes about drugs in the airline industry, and his comments were inappropriate. (There was all of five people in the place, including his daughter, the passenger.) Later, my f/o commented to me how polite and professional I was, and how well I handled the situation.

Well, imagine my surprise when the daughter deplaned at the hub and handed me a nasty note, saying I had embarassed an old man for no reason, and had acted wrong! I wonder what she would have said if the DEA had been called and swarmed the place. Funny thing, later that afternoon, she was again my passenger going back! I smiled and welcomed her aboard and forgot the whole thing. No note that leg!

However, this was all B.A., or "Before AmericaWest," the biggie incident that apparently replaced our security screening with sobriety checkpoints. Today, I, too, would submit to alcohol screening if someone "joked" about my sobriety, just as the FBI would show up if someone "joked" about a bomb.

 

[MetroSheriff]

One of the great things working for a REAL airline, the captains IS allowed to act like one.

You've got to be kidding.

You want to see pilots who make decisions? Go check out the folks hauling boxes and checks in the middle of the night in 402s and Chieftans. The airplanes may be smaller but they have more discretion than any 121 operation.

Airline flying is a great big game of Mother-May-I.

That being said, perhaps this has something to do with the lopsided safety record in favor of airline ops.