Madison newspaper editorial response

[Typhoon1244]

Re: Drunkeness column

Mr. Wiese was a moron and douchebag to say what he said.

Hey! You copied my letter to the editor! No fair!

Seriously, in my letter, I did tell the woman that she should stick to topics she's willing to research. Lucky for her, the media is not held accountable for garbage like this.

A few years back, Fox-4 News in Dallas did a big story about a SunJet flight that was six hours late because of a mechanical problem. They focused on one guy who was trying to get to California to see his dying mother...she died while he was sitting in the terminal at DFW.

The problem with the story was that it wasn't a SunJet flight, it was a Spirit flight. SunJet tried to get Fox-4 to run a correction...they never did.

 

[lookup]

Mr. Wiese was a moron and douchebag to say what he said. It was tantamount to making hijacking and terrorist cracks. I dunno if the charges were overkill, although it's too bad that there aren't criminal or federal charges for being stupid.

Uh, there aren't enough jails/prisons to handle the traffic load. Now if it were a misdemeanor with say a $50 fine, that would be a great way to pay off our national debt in say.... two weeks

 

[darling pretty]

Bobby-- not Comair, ACA. The editor doesn't have the decency to correct their error

 

[Dieterly]

TWA DUDE...

Great Post!!! At least some common sense.

 

[FL000]

1. The pilot was accused of being drunk. This career is too sensitive/precious (as is the industry) for someone not to take any such remark seriously.

2. Passenger's stupid remark was met with a stupid response - JAIL.

3. Flu isn't incriminating, alcohol - is. Physical fitness to fly is relative and doesn't have the definitive guideline that alcohol does (0.04). (Let's pretend one DID fly with a flu - he won't lose his job over it - unlike being drunk, just ask Gary Shroeder).

4. At the end, who is laughing at his joke? Everyone but Mr. Weise. NOW, THAT'S FUNNY. ANY MORE JOKESTERS?

1. No, he wasn't. Please tell me you know the difference between an ill-timed joke and a formal accusation. Dissect the sentence in question and show me the accusation. It ain't there.

2. I couldn't have said it better myself. While I hesitate to question how any other captain runs his cockpit, I can say that I personally would not have elevated the passenger's stupid comment to a criminal level. However, if the comment is directed at the first officer and s/he wants to go pee in a bottle, I have no problem with that and would not stand in the way. That would be between the F/O and the CP.

3. I'm speaking of certificate action. In that regard, the two conditions are more equivalent than you perceive. And speaking of criminal, what about innocent until proven guilty? If I have not been drinking, what do I have to worry about? Nothing, that's what.

4. You been watching "Full Metal Jacket" or something? Geez...lighten up.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by ifly4food
And when that passenger...contact your company to say a drunk pilot flew the flight what will you do? Once the flight is completed you can't prove your were sober at takeoff. [Italics mine.] Are you willing to bet your career that the passenger was only joking?

This is exactly the point. Mr. Wiese was joking and, had the flight proceeded on schedule, probably wouldn't have thought any more about it.

Now, what about a little old lady sitting in seat 1B who heard someone say something about "the pilots drinking?" She sits there in quiet fear until the plane gets to CVG, then goes home and writes a letter to Mother Delta about the drunk pilot that flew her out of Madison. Nobody will be able to prove anything one way or the other, but do you really need that on your record?

Think it can't happen? Ask the SunJet International captain who, according to a passenger report to the FAA, flew a broken MD-80. (The passenger saw the '80's elevators pointing in different directions--as they do sometimes since they're not interconnected--and told the FAA that the airplane had "broken tail ailerons." Silly, but the feds are still required to investigate.)

This is a lot like the "should I declare an emergency" issue. Is there a good reason for not covering your as_?

If I were in this situation, would I like to avoid a five hour delay for some silly remark? He-l yeah! But for the reasons I've outlined above...uh huh, I think I'd have done the same thing this captain did.

Most of you who disagree are more senior and closer to retirement than I am. I'm naturally a little more defensive of my career since I have such a long way to go!

 

[sf3boy]

Any airline crew that does not pull themselves off the plane for drug testing after a passenger accuses them of drinking is an idiot at best. Especially since all the TSA and ATC people are now in "catch the drunk pilots" mode.

I had a friend who recently had ATC accuse him and his FO of flying their DC-9 drunk. Of course ATC did not directly accuse them, they just had all the TSA jerks waiting at the gate of the arrival city. Both blew 0.0000000. Sounds like an excellent lawsuit to me.

I myself spent way to much time and money for this career to have some ass clown passenger throwing around jokes or insinuations that might get me fired. Lord knows that the professionals that run my airline would believe everyone but the pilot.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I myself spent way to much time and money for this career to have some ass clown passenger throwing around jokes or insinuations that might get me fired [emphasis added].

"Ass clown?" Can I borrow that? That's funny!

 

[TWA Dude]

Any airline crew that does not pull themselves off the plane for drug testing after a passenger accuses them of drinking is an idiot at best.

I agree, but only when there's an actual serious accusation. A flippant remark may or may not constitute an accusation depending on the circumstances. If I were you I'd be more carefull about calling other pilots idiots because they don't share your view of the world.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by TWA Dude
I agree, but only when there's an actual serious accusation. A flippant remark may or may not constitute an accusation depending on the circumstances. If I were you I'd be more carefull about calling other pilots idiots because they don't share your view of the world.

Well, be easy on sf3boy. He wasn't talking about this editorial, he was talking about an accusation. And he's right, if you don't act after an accusation, you are an idiot!

Now as far as flippant comments are concerned, that's up to the individual...but like I said previously, if you do nothing at all, you're playin Russian roulette with whoever might have partially overheard the comment out of context.

Here's the good news: most--if not all--chief pilots will back you up whichever way you go...if it was a joke and not an accusation.

Remember that we all don't think the same. Some people may come off like they're joking when they are, in fact, very serious. In that case, maybe taking them aside and having a little chat with them is in order.

 

[TXCAP4228]

I don't fly for a living, but I know under part 91 it says I am not allowed to transport an intoxicated passenger. If this is not true for 121 operations then ok. However, if it is true for 121 operations then the crew ought to make a similar statement to the offending passenger and insist that the passenger be tested before pushing back.

After all, we just want to comply with the law here, right?

How would the press report that?

 

[sf3boy]

twadude,
Your airline must be very trusting or else mine is just the opposite. Our pilots our ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. Especially since they are in the mood to keep displacing and furloughing.

If you can tell if a passenger is joking or not, then you are a better judge of character than I. I consistently have passengers that always know more than myself about weather, maintenance, FAR's, and airmanship & are not afraid to let me know about it. But, maybe they are just kidding around when they tell me that they have never seen such lousy air service.

And by the way, I can not take the credit for ass clown. It was from a movie.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by sf3boy
I consistently have passengers that always know more than myself about weather, maintenance, FAR's, and airmanship & are not afraid to let me know about it.

My favorite was the ass clown (I love that!) who sent me a note asking me to "please turn the yaw dampener* on." (Maybe I was heavy on the rudder that day...?)

I should have told him "the yaw is already plenty damp, thanks."


*I've actually heard pilots pronounce it this way, too.

 

[TWA Dude]

twadude,
Your airline must be very trusting or else mine is just the opposite. Our pilots our ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent. Especially since they are in the mood to keep displacing and furloughing.

The key is that when the captain handled the problem directly the company never knew about it. (An incident report could be submitted afterwards but that was usually just for unrulyness.) To answer your question, TWA was very supportive of its captains when they used their judgement in dealing with the pax.

If you can tell if a passenger is joking or not, then you are a better judge of character than I.

If I had any doubt I'd ask them. Pax are pretty much ignorant of the seriousness of their statements so when queried they quicky figure it out and shut up.

 

[Dieterly]

TWA was very supportive of its captains when they used their judgement in dealing with the pax.

One of the great things working for a REAL airline, the captains IS allowed to act like one.