Lynx going UTU?

CFI

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[FONT=Verdana,Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]Futhey reported that more than 300 pilots and flight attendants employed by Great Lakes Airlines have voted to be represented by the UTU; that more than 80 percent of some 160 pilots with Lynx Aviation have signed authorization cards seeking UTU representation; and the UTU is working to organize an even larger airline.[/FONT]
 

Cardinal

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Those at Lakes who have worked closest with UTU reps have had a really good experience thus far. The Local is granted generous autonomy, while being well supported. They can dang sure run an organizing drive, and they've done a bangup job of helping set up the Local. We're running mostly on our own two feet now, and now able to focus on the contract, only a few months after the election. As always, the union is you. Without a strong core of motivated volunteers, it's over.

Best of luck to the L4 pilots! If the Reverend has his way, they will need a strong voice.
 

Nevets

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I hope they consider ALPA as well. But anyone is better than nothing, I guess.
 

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ALPA was approached on more than one occasion. They always had an excuse about it not being the right time to organize. They had their chance and they blew it.
 

Nevets

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ALPA was approached on more than one occasion. They always had an excuse about it not being the right time to organize. They had their chance and they blew it.
Its up to the pilots of Lynx to decide that. Not some ALPA staffer. If you put enough ALPA votes on the ballot, ALPA (their MEC) will represent the Lynx pilots and ALPA pilots will welcome and support them.
 

psmd0311

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Nope, ALPA wasn't willing to represent us. Numerous people approached ALPA over a 8 month stretch. They didn't want anything to do with us. With that I lost the little faith I had left in ALPA.
 

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Many people at Lynx worked at ALPA carriers before and were not very happy, however most were willing to give them a second chance. ALPA ruined that by blowing us off. There are very few people on property that have any faith in ALPA at this point.
 

Nevets

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Nope, ALPA wasn't willing to represent us. Numerous people approached ALPA over a 8 month stretch. They didn't want anything to do with us. With that I lost the little faith I had left in ALPA.
Many people at Lynx worked at ALPA carriers before and were not very happy, however most were willing to give them a second chance. ALPA ruined that by blowing us off. There are very few people on property that have any faith in ALPA at this point.
I'm just saying that regardless of what some staffer told you, ALPA is best for you guys and nothing stops any of your pilots from voting for ALPA when the time comes. Your MEC will get all the benefits that ALPA offers regardless of whether some staffer doesn't think now is the right time. In any case, your union will only be as good as your MEC. With that being equal, you might as well take advantage of what ALPA is able to provide to your MEC.
 

psmd0311

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You really are not getting it. ALPA didn't want us. Why would we get a union that doesn't want us? We were trying to get cards from ALPA that we could sign. One of our pilots even went to Washington and approached Prater personally to try and get an ALPA drive going. ALPA was not interested, they wouldn't give us cards to sign. We were too small and would cost too much money. You need to realize ALPA has become more of a business than a union representing all pilots. Its sad and it shouldn't be like that, but thats what has happened.

Even Teamsters made more of an effort than ALPA, at least they made an appointment to meet us (they didn't show up) but at least they made an appointment!
 

Nevets

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You really are not getting it. ALPA didn't want us. Why would we get a union that doesn't want us? We were trying to get cards from ALPA that we could sign. One of our pilots even went to Washington and approached Prater personally to try and get an ALPA drive going. ALPA was not interested, they wouldn't give us cards to sign. We were too small and would cost too much money. You need to realize ALPA has become more of a business than a union representing all pilots. Its sad and it shouldn't be like that, but thats what has happened.

Even Teamsters made more of an effort than ALPA, at least they made an appointment to meet us (they didn't show up) but at least they made an appointment!
I do think there is a misunderstanding. You need to get cards from ALPA, UTU, or the IBT. But even if it is UTU distributing cards, when it comes time to vote, you can put ANY name on the ballot!

What people don't understand is that ALPA is a bottom up organization. The line pilots run the show when they want to run the show. If you vote ALPA in, YOU as the line pilot have the final say in what ALPA national does. ALPA national does not have a say in what MEC they will support or not.
 

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I think everyone understands that we could still write ALPA in when it comes to a vote. The question is why would anyone want to? We were told were were to small, would cost to much to represent, and had a future that was to uncertain. How much help would national be given their general attitude towards Lynx?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would rather go with a union that has shown they want us and has given us their support from day one.
 

psmd0311

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Its not easy to get a union vote started especially when management is on a witch hunt to find out who is doing the organizing. Then we have to ask the pilot group to have faith in ALPA when ALPA have stated they don’t want to represent us.

I don’t want to vote in a union that sees us as a burden. Yes it starts from the bottom up, thats assuming there is support from the top.
 

GuppyWN

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Let me get this straight.

Instead of demanding one list with your big brothers at Frontier you guys took no representation, low pay and traded growth for respect.

Now you want a union?

Yeah,
Gup
 

HDA

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Let me get this straight.

Instead of demanding one list with your big brothers at Frontier you guys took no representation, low pay and traded growth for respect.

Now you want a union?

Yeah,
Gup

Some blame for that lies on the Frontier pilots side as well!
 

CFI

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Let me get this straight.

Instead of demanding one list with your big brothers at Frontier you guys took no representation, low pay and traded growth for respect.

Now you want a union?

Yeah,
Gup
How could we demand one list we are small start up? If one list was wanted mainline pilots would have had to be the ones to demand it as their scope allowed these planes to be flown by someone else. FAPA was approached about representation but didn't want to because they saw it as a conflict of interest.

As for the low pay myself and others were flat out lied to regarding pay rates and work rules. So what would you suggest that we just accept it and not do anything to better our situation?

Now in regards to trading growth for respect most of us didn't come here for growth. Most of us have seen zero growth in our time at lynx. We came for QQL reasons. I'd be quite happy to see us stay our current size.
 

Nevets

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I think everyone understands that we could still write ALPA in when it comes to a vote. The question is why would anyone want to? We were told were were to small, would cost to much to represent, and had a future that was to uncertain. How much help would national be given their general attitude towards Lynx?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I would rather go with a union that has shown they want us and has given us their support from day one.
You want to because with ALPA on board you will have more resources than with any other union. ALPA national will NOT have a say in whether they will provide those resources to your MEC. Your MEC chairman will become a member of "ALPA national" as all MEC chairmen are a member of the executive board. Your airline will also be represented by an executive vice president (which would be a regional guy) at the executive council meetings. ALPA national will not risk a DFR lawsuit over this.

Who cares what they told you. You know that ALPA is better for you guys, so just go do it and don't let anyone tell you you cant!

Its not easy to get a union vote started especially when management is on a witch hunt to find out who is doing the organizing. Then we have to ask the pilot group to have faith in ALPA when ALPA have stated they don’t want to represent us.

I don’t want to vote in a union that sees us as a burden. Yes it starts from the bottom up, thats assuming there is support from the top.
Its not about faith. We are ALPA. Not someone in DC. You want ALPA to represent you? Then when you vote ALPA in, YOU will represent yourselves as an ALPA member. You don't like something ALPA national is doing? YOU go do something about it. There is no faith in that.

You may not get the support from some staffer in DC, but I and thousands of others will support your efforts if you vote ALPA in.
 
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duck_killer

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I do think there is a misunderstanding. You need to get cards from ALPA, UTU, or the IBT. But even if it is UTU distributing cards, when it comes time to vote, you can put ANY name on the ballot!

What people don't understand is that ALPA is a bottom up organization. The line pilots run the show when they want to run the show. If you vote ALPA in, YOU as the line pilot have the final say in what ALPA national does. ALPA national does not have a say in what MEC they will support or not.
Are you retarded? If you went to a lawyer and he said pound sand would you hire him anyway?


Maybe if he ALPA on his card...............
 

Cardinal

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Nevets, perhaps you've been in this position, I don't know, but I certainly have. To ask your colleagues, your friends, your instructors, your captains, to sign on the dotted line really is a big deal. Your personal credibility is on the line. But to do so without even the expectation of a given outcome is a monstrous leap of faith.

It's like Iraq in 2003. Once the statues are toppled, you'd darn well better have a plan. A campaign like this needs direction. A union drive needs a clear sponsor, and the organizing committee cares more and will be better informed than most of the line pilots. I assert that their job of vetting should (usually) be trusted.

At Lakes and now Lynx, UTU is simply doing a better job of selling themselves to regional pilots. They really manifest enthusiasm for representation, despite the obvious handicap of not being a pilots union. They flew their butts out to DEN after two phone calls from one individual claiming to represent the hopes of a tiny pilot group. How can the Organizers ignore that? How can you shrug off an aggressive organization, when you need all the help you can get to this vote pushed through?

I was a lonely pro-ALPA voice on our committee. ALPA could have snagged both these properties if they really acted like they wanted them. But when reports of lackluster contacts with Herndon staffers get out to the pilot group, it's an uphill battle.

I'm tired and this post rambles, but I say good for Lynx, I hope it works out.
 

Nevets

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Are you retarded? If you went to a lawyer and he said pound sand would you hire him anyway?


Maybe if he ALPA on his card...............
No, but if its the top law firm for the type of case I'm hiring a lawyer for, I'd go to someone else in the firm. Plus, its retarded for you to think a lawyer would turn down your money.;)

Nevets, perhaps you've been in this position, I don't know, but I certainly have. To ask your colleagues, your friends, your instructors, your captains, to sign on the dotted line really is a big deal. Your personal credibility is on the line. But to do so without even the expectation of a given outcome is a monstrous leap of faith.

It's like Iraq in 2003. Once the statues are toppled, you'd darn well better have a plan. A campaign like this needs direction. A union drive needs a clear sponsor, and the organizing committee cares more and will be better informed than most of the line pilots. I assert that their job of vetting should (usually) be trusted.

At Lakes and now Lynx, UTU is simply doing a better job of selling themselves to regional pilots. They really manifest enthusiasm for representation, despite the obvious handicap of not being a pilots union. They flew their butts out to DEN after two phone calls from one individual claiming to represent the hopes of a tiny pilot group. How can the Organizers ignore that? How can you shrug off an aggressive organization, when you need all the help you can get to this vote pushed through?

I was a lonely pro-ALPA voice on our committee. ALPA could have snagged both these properties if they really acted like they wanted them. But when reports of lackluster contacts with Herndon staffers get out to the pilot group, it's an uphill battle.

I'm tired and this post rambles, but I say good for Lynx, I hope it works out.
I have been in that position so I really do know how that feels. And I do agree with the need for a well directed union drive. ALPA has been vetted by many other properties as well. Just keep in mind why all of a sudden the UTU is interested in pilots.

My main point was really that you can put ALPA on the ballot regardless of what someone in DC told you that you can't do. Hell, if the janitor's union wins, they will represent you as well. So why not go for the union by pilots for pilots?
 
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