LXJET 70+ seat rates out

[SoberIrishman]

Re: Nevets post.

Please do the math and show me how what LXJET has been awarded will increase my pay.

I am on year 15 at $98.68 per hr.
LXJET equivalent is $93.10 I understand.
After adding on 5.5% for your B fund that brings me to $98.22 still below current rate.

And the 401k is about the same, match is 75% of the first 8%. You just use a slightly different formula.

Where does the remainder come from? I need a lot better than that if I ever have to accept a POS globalized PBS !

Would like to learn more about this.

Thanks.



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[rjacobs]

Lets say you made 1000 hours credit for the year just to make the math simple.

Under your(ASA) contract you would make 98,680 dollars. Your first 8% is $7894. 75% of that is $5920. So your total compensation with salary and 401k is 104600.

Under the XJT contract with the $2 bump for 51+ seat A/C you would make 93,100 salary. Your 6% A plan 401k would be 5586. Your 5.5% B fund would be 5120 for a combined total of 10706. Your total compensation would be 103806.

A difference of $794 in ASA's favor. I would hardly call it a land slide in ASA's favor.

What is your health insurance costs? We(XJT) are capped at 25% of the total premium(so it varies for every pilot depending on what insurance they have). My understanding was that this was taken into account in the $2.

I dont think anybody(didnt read the specific post you are talking about) said that our $2 raise would ever raise anybodies pay(not even ours when you take going to training into affect).

And when will the ASA guys realize that Flight Line is just as globalized as Smart Pref its just done by hand. If you dont think that running 100+ solutions for each bid and changing the parameters of each run a little ISNT a form of globalization I got news for you. They dont call it globalization, but the end goal is the same: make the final award work as a whole. Im not super keen on the whole globalization concept, but to say that your system in no way is globalized is completely false. If your guys DIDNT run the award 100 times with different parameters your award would be HORRIBLE. You would have great lines until a certain point(the constraint point) and then it would be a ******************** show. The goal of your guys that run the system is to get the ******************** show as far down the list as possible if not completely remove it.

If Smart Pref allowed globalization to be turned off and results were run by humans with parameter tweaking would you all then be interested in it? Because to me that would be the same system as Flight Line.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Excellent post, which provides some useful information.
My family PPO is $189 each paycheck, so that's $378 monthly. I don't know what LXJET has.

We need some free and open dialogue like this perhaps by informational packets to each side or road shows. The MECs are not really moving the sides any closer.

Thanks for the info, but I am still concerned about losing what for us is a PBS that we all like and works well. I have never come across unstacking by the way.


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[rjacobs]

We have a $300 deductible PPO which is $333 monthly for a family. We have a $1500 deductible PPO which is $132 monthly for a family. We also have a 90% EPO(I think its zero deductible) which is $350 monthly for a family.

I dont know what you all have that is comparable to the above(I know you all dont have anything like the 90% EPO option) so if we compare the $300 family PPO we pay $540 a year LESS in insurance.

That then puts the overall compensation difference at $254.

I bet I can find that $254 difference in our dental plans.

Our Metlife family dental plan is $121 per month. Most of our guys I believe have this plan as its the better(although more expensive) of the two plans offered. What is your dental plan per month?


And as far as the unstacking(globalization/constraints/whatever), my guess is the reason you all dont see unstacking is because your guys run so many solutions that they more/less get rid of it. I know I heard it has been used in the past, but maybe the guys running the solutions have gotten better and can now "program it out" for lack of a better term. I dont know. I would honestly like to maybe see a "1st run" out of your alls software and see what a cluster ******************** it is and if un-stacking is present. I would also like to see the number of the run that is eventually released as the final award to see just how many tweaks it took to get to an acceptable solution. Our PBS guys are saying that you all run in the high 2 digit if not into 3 digits some months to get to an acceptable solution. That is crazy to me. My guess is nobody from the ASA PBS guys will say exactly how many runs it takes to get to an acceptable solution each month.

I dont know if Smart Pref is the answer. I also dont know if Flight Line is the answer. As much as the ASA guys say Flight Line works, I understand management wants to get rid of things like vacation low in favor of a different way to do vacationand that would remove one of the sweet spots of Flight Line in the pilots point of view.

 

[SoberIrishman]

Dental is $24.22 per month for family.

 

[rjacobs]

Dental is $24.22 per month for family.

jesus your dental is CHEAP. Is it even any good? I pay more than that for my individual plan. Ours is Metlife and my dentist says metlife is one of the best ones. The other plan we have is Cigna and it sucks. Its $73 a month for a family.

 

[Plainsman]

We were sold PBS because of that vacation low deal. I enjoy it. I don't like PBS though. Some like others don't.

 

[drinksonme]

Just out curiosity. Do LASA folks think they will keep their current form of PBS in the JCBA? If they do, I have some oceanfront....u know the rest. Management will NEVER keep it as is. This is a chance for them to fix the errors they made last time around. So as far as I see it, this supposed line in the sh!t is based on a perspective of current rules. Either way both systems will be set up in the companies favor, therefore I hold my current cards on non PBS system. We are fighting over egos not solutions. Sad state of affairs with idiots at the helm. Best advise.....leave ASAP

 

[McNugent]

Just out curiosity. Do LASA folks think they will keep their current form of PBS in the JCBA? If they do, I have some oceanfront....u know the rest. Management will NEVER keep it as is. This is a chance for them to fix the errors they made last time around. So as far as I see it, this supposed line in the sh!t is based on a perspective of current rules. Either way both systems will be set up in the companies favor, therefore I hold my current cards on non PBS system. We are fighting over egos not solutions. Sad state of affairs with idiots at the helm. Best advise.....leave ASAP

I wish there was a "Like" button on here.

 

[Nevets]

Re: Nevets post.

Please do the math and show me how what LXJET has been awarded will increase my pay.

I am on year 15 at $98.68 per hr.
LXJET equivalent is $93.10 I understand.
After adding on 5.5% for your B fund that brings me to $98.22 still below current rate.

And the 401k is about the same, match is 75% of the first 8%. You just use a slightly different formula.

Where does the remainder come from? I need a lot better than that if I ever have to accept a POS globalized PBS !

Would like to learn more about this.

Thanks.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Rjacob did the math for me. But I don't think I ever said that your pay would go up. In fact, I said that the best we could've hoped for in arbitration is industry average. Im actually surprised that the numbers worked out to $98.68 versus $98.22. I thought your compensation would be a lot higher than industry average. Also, as rjcobs said, the insurance premium cap was taken into consideration. Our cap is 25% and yours is 30%. That will also make a small difference when looking at total compensation.

PS. One other very small point to keep in mind, you are required to fund your 401k by 8% to get the 6% match whereas we only need to fund 6% to get the 6% match. In other words, your actual take home pay is 2% less than ours for the same matching funds deposited. Or we could choose to put 6% into the 401k to get the 6% match and then fund our Roth 401k with 2%.

Excellent post, which provides some useful information.
My family PPO is $189 each paycheck, so that's $378 monthly. I don't know what LXJET has.

We need some free and open dialogue like this perhaps by informational packets to each side or road shows. The MECs are not really moving the sides any closer.

Thanks for the info, but I am still concerned about losing what for us is a PBS that we all like and works well. I have never come across unstacking by the way.


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If you pay $378 per month for health insurance then the company is paying $882 per month on your behalf as part of your total compensation. If we had that exact same plan at LXJT, we would pay $315 and the company would pay $945 per month on our behalf as part of our total compensation. That works out to $756 a year less that we would pay out of our pocket.