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LXJET 70+ seat rates out

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rjacobs said:
I dont know who requested this or if it was requested at all and the arbitrator simply did it. This arbitration was an "industry average" arbitration. I think Eagle is doing this percentage thing, I dont know if anybody else is. Is Mesa? Is Pinnacle? Does Republic?
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C'mon, do you think the arbitrator slipped in SmartPref PBS on a whim? Or because Republic has it? (They do not, and nor did anyone else until now.)
 
rjacobs said:
And Inc. doesnt differentiate between profits(or loss's) on their 10k's from XJT or SKW, its all one big pot.
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Not exactly true. Reference pages 49 & 50 of the 2012 10k for last year's breakdown. SkyWest made $106,065,000. ExpressJet lost $18,455,000. The quarterly reports show the breakdowns as well. They just don't mention it on the earnings calls.
 
Oakum_Boy said:
C'mon, do you think the arbitrator slipped in SmartPref PBS on a whim? Or because Republic has it? (They do not, and nor did anyone else until now.)
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The arbitration award doesn't mention smartpref. The Q&A does say that they expect smartpref to be the system they negotiate rules for but it's not set in stone.
 
centralpilot said:
Not exactly true. Reference pages 49 & 50 of the 2012 10k for last year's breakdown. SkyWest made $106,065,000. ExpressJet lost $18,455,000. The quarterly reports show the breakdowns as well. They just don't mention it on the earnings calls.
Click to expand...

But they dont have a separate 10k for XJET and SKW and INC, its just one 10k for the entire shooting match which means if XJET loses money, it drags the rest of the company down. Same as if SKW lost money it would drag the entire INC portfolio down.

So INC cant "bankrupt" XJT and then get a BK judge to force contract terms on us because it would bankrupt the entire INC portfolio. Not saying they couldnt some how do something funky and put us into a different holdings company or what not, but I just dont see that happening.

I think they would rather let us sit with our almost 10 year old contract with no raises for many years(which saves them an extra 3% every year) than to give us raises. If and when we ever get a contract I can guarantee it wont equal the pay lost since our current contract went amendable in Dec 2010. We are 3 years without a raise, I dont think we will see one this year either, which puts us 4 years or 12%. I bet our pay raise will be something like 6%, which doesnt even keep up with COLA for the past 3-4 years.
 
Oakum_Boy said:
Question is, what kind of back-stabbing, back-door politics is going on behind the scenes?

Something is off here
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Welcome to the wonderful world of Brad H. I told you that that evil dwarf will have pilots biting at each other in no time at all. The great irony is, you played into his game according to the plan to a "T". Your inability to see the patently obvious will allow him to jam the corncob in sideways.
The longer your reps spend with him, the more his way of thinking becomes their own, think Stockholm Syndrome. Our SAPA guys go in all fired up, gonna change the world, lasts about 2 weeks, a couple of SGU Outback steak, "working dinners" and the SGU way of thinking "makes sense". How many times have they called themselves our elected leadership? They aren't elected leaders, they are elected representatives, slight difference.
 
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Where was it ever written that every worker is owed a 3% raise per year? Who said you automatically tie your pay to some expected raise in inflation? What is there is no inflation, or it goes the other way, do we give money back?
 
79%N1 said:
Where was it ever written that every worker is owed a 3% raise per year? Who said you automatically tie your pay to some expected raise in inflation? What is there is no inflation, or it goes the other way, do we give money back?
Click to expand...

Said nobody ever!!!!!
 
Well, LXJT, there is a saying that you get what you negotiate. You think you got hosed on payrates, just wait until you get your first SmartPref award and it jams everyone of you down to Min days off. That's what globalized systems do--put 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag. Just ask any Continental pilot.
 
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Speedtape said:
Well, LXJT, there is a saying that you get what you negotiate. You think you got hosed on payrates, just wait until you get your first SmartPref award and it jams everyone of you down to Min days off. That's what globalized systems do--put 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag. Just ask any Continental pilot.
Click to expand...

Did they finally cave and gave you the new news?
 
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Speedtape said:
Well, LXJT, there is a saying that you get what you negotiate. You think you got hosed on payrates, just wait until you get your first SmartPref award and it jams everyone of you down to Min days off. That's what globalized systems do--put 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound bag. Just ask any Continental pilot.
Click to expand...


naaah. Doesn't matter that nobody in the history of aviation uses that smartpref turd. Doesn't matter that 90%+ of ASA pilots are happy with our flightline PBS. it is in the supposed best interest of the XJT pilots to maintain their quality of life to get smartpref. still scratching my head on how a group of such superior intellect pilots came to such a retawded conclusion. but hey... they did their research.... that one cracks me up too. they did their research on a system that every other airline that looked at said "no thanks"

please keep us seperate and enjoy that sh!tberg sandwich smartpref and your min days off. count me as happy that we are not negotiating anymore
 
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I think the company is aware that taking LXJT on board was a mistake. Many ASA pilots, like myself would rather we forget about the LXJT guys and keep us separate.
I also cannot figure out why they are going for smart perf. Not a very intelligent move at all.
Everyone at ASA is very happy with our PBS. I was able to get 3 weeks off for 1 week vacation last month. So LXJT forget about using that one as an excuse.

I think LXJT will probably be allowed to shrink away and eventually disappear. Will take a while, but they were going that way anyway a few years back.

No more JCBA. Keep ASA separate!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
SoberIrishman said:
I think the company is aware that taking LXJT on board was a mistake. Many ASA pilots, like myself would rather we forget about the LXJT guys and keep us separate.
I also cannot figure out why they are going for smart perf. Not a very intelligent move at all.
Everyone at ASA is very happy with our PBS. I was able to get 3 weeks off for 1 week vacation last month. So LXJT forget about using that one as an excuse.

I think LXJT will probably be allowed to shrink away and eventually disappear. Will take a while, but they were going that way anyway a few years back.

No more JCBA. Keep ASA separate!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Are you kidding me? That's so extremely short sighted. What we have here is a perfect storm of negotiating leverage on the side of management. The arbitrated rates they just got on the LXJT side is just the tip of the iceberg of what they want to do to ASA.

If anything I'm concerned about our relationship with Delta going forward. They are going to cornhole ASA next and it won't be pretty. Diversification of our portfolio is great, but future planes with be EMB-175's or 900's. Guess who's cheaper now? Follow the bread crumbs over to LXJT, because they just positioned themselves to survive the storm, while giving the finger to our inept negotiating committe's "line in the sand".

We need to all get on board together and get this contract done. No one will win with these pilot groups being separate.
 
Ding ding ding

McNugent said:
Are you kidding me? That's so extremely short sighted. What we have here is a perfect storm of negotiating leverage on the side of management. The arbitrated rates they just got on the LXJT side is just the tip of the iceberg of what they want to do to ASA.

If anything I'm concerned about our relationship with Delta going forward. They are going to cornhole ASA next and it won't be pretty. Diversification of our portfolio is great, but future planes with be EMB-175's or 900's. Guess who's cheaper now? Follow the bread crumbs over to LXJT, because they just positioned themselves to survive the storm, while giving the finger to our inept negotiating committe's "line in the sand".

We need to all get on board together and get this contract done. No one will win with these pilot groups being separate.
Click to expand...

Winner winner, chicken dinner.
If you think uncle Jerry isn't watching this to see who's playing ball than you Asa people are dummer than the catfish you're noodling.
With the delta rate reset monster staring down the barrel at all of the dci carriers, you would think the folks at Asa would be forward thinking not burying their head in The sand. Then again, their mec gets paid no matter what the outcome.
sky west's me too clause is going to corn hole them now hahahaha
+$2 to fly the 7 at mainline hahahahahaha enjoy !
 
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Yeah but you have the, me too clause in your contr.... Um well you don't have a contract, your work rules are dictated to you via the Latter Day Saint squad.
 
Again, the airplanes will go tho wherever. I'd rather lose this job than go to a globalized PBS system. Sorry, I feel that strongly about it. I can't begin to explain the mumber of friends at Continwntal who cannot stand their system. There is no quality of life under it.
 
None of you guys can see the forest through the trees. Some of you think that a rate of $2 an hour means downward pressure on us. Nope. With this rate, LXJT still receive more compensation than higher paid LASA. Its called the B-fund. If you want to give me that deal I'll sign in a New York minute. Give up $2 per hour in exchange for 6% into an account I take with me if I leave.

As for the Smartpref, I still don't completely understand why you guys are onboard with that. It's like full list unstacking on our side. Your exchange and trip swap after a schedule is far better than what we have. Lets keep that. But seriously, start the bid with our PBS. I also want the whole bid timeline moved up. We are still working with the timelines setup for paper bidding. Why can ALPA run 2 prelim bids in 24 hours but its takes the company a week to run 1. When the flight attendants were playing with Flightline PBS when we first got it, they had "Live Bidding". So that feature is already programmed and just needs to be switched on. I would like to know what the cost difference is for the company between the 2 systems. Why are we operating with any system not owned by us? Sked Plus does not have monthly fees. Back on the old contract remember how all of us were paying $8 month to Flightline for access to do bid at home and do swaps. 1500 pilots plus 1000 F/A's makes for $20,000 per month to Flightline. What on Earth could their expenses be for that service? I bet they are charging ASA similar fees for Prefbid. I can't help but think that we can bring this in house for much less.
 
ASApuppy said:
As for the Smartpref, I still don't completely understand why you guys are onboard with that. It's like full list unstacking on our side. Your exchange and trip swap after a schedule is far better than what we have. Lets keep that. But seriously, start the bid with our PBS. I also want the whole bid timeline moved up. We are still working with the timelines setup for paper bidding. Why can ALPA run 2 prelim bids in 24 hours but its takes the company a week to run 1. When the flight attendants were playing with Flightline PBS when we first got it, they had "Live Bidding". So that feature is already programmed and just needs to be switched on. I would like to know what the cost difference is for the company between the 2 systems. Why are we operating with any system not owned by us? Sked Plus does not have monthly fees. Back on the old contract remember how all of us were paying $8 month to Flightline for access to do bid at home and do swaps. 1500 pilots plus 1000 F/A's makes for $20,000 per month to Flightline. What on Earth could their expenses be for that service? I bet they are charging ASA similar fees for Prefbid. I can't help but think that we can bring this in house for much less.
Click to expand...
Yup I agree
 
ASApuppy said:
None of you guys can see the forest through the trees. Some of you think that a rate of $2 an hour means downward pressure on us. Nope. With this rate, LXJT still receive more compensation than higher paid LASA. Its called the B-fund. If you want to give me that deal I'll sign in a New York minute. Give up $2 per hour in exchange for 6% into an account I take with me if I leave.

As for the Smartpref, I still don't completely understand why you guys are onboard with that. It's like full list unstacking on our side. Your exchange and trip swap after a schedule is far better than what we have. Lets keep that. But seriously, start the bid with our PBS. I also want the whole bid timeline moved up. We are still working with the timelines setup for paper bidding. Why can ALPA run 2 prelim bids in 24 hours but its takes the company a week to run 1. When the flight attendants were playing with Flightline PBS when we first got it, they had "Live Bidding". So that feature is already programmed and just needs to be switched on. I would like to know what the cost difference is for the company between the 2 systems. Why are we operating with any system not owned by us? Sked Plus does not have monthly fees. Back on the old contract remember how all of us were paying $8 month to Flightline for access to do bid at home and do swaps. 1500 pilots plus 1000 F/A's makes for $20,000 per month to Flightline. What on Earth could their expenses be for that service? I bet they are charging ASA similar fees for Prefbid. I can't help but think that we can bring this in house for much less.
Click to expand...

+1
Well done Pup
 
I agree with Smartpref not being a smart choice. I'm very happy with what we have at ASA. That's not entirely the issue though. We have 2 MEC's who are more at odds with each other than the company. It's really sad to see us fighting amongst ourselves vs. working collectively to find real solutions. The whipsaw has begun and we need a JCBA. I'm not advocating taking whatever they ram down our throats. We just need other options than "I hate your PBS and it's my system or nothing". This is not working.
 
As a line pilot I would like to see a side by side comparison of both systems using real pairings. I have seen how SmartPref works for the conversion lines, and although I am a "no PBS" guy, it looked pretty slick and I could see it working with the right rules in place. As far as Flightline, I can only go on what XJT scheduling committee has put out. I would love for the ASA scheduling committee to demo Flightline for us.
 
Whydoitry said:
As a line pilot I would like to see a side by side comparison of both systems using real pairings. I have seen how SmartPref works for the conversion lines, and although I am a "no PBS" guy, it looked pretty slick and I could see it working with the right rules in place. As far as Flightline, I can only go on what XJT scheduling committee has put out. I would love for the ASA scheduling committee to demo Flightline for us.
Click to expand...

What is it with you guys and this hang up on 'real time'. This is complete fools gold. Everyone knows that this doesn't work unless you have 100% participation, which you never do until the bids are just about closed.

Please please please. Keep us separate from Xjt. We want nothing to do with smartpref. Why don't you think no other airline has selected this pos. go ahead...take your smartpref. Just leave us out of it. We are happy with flightline.
 
SmartPref is the system the TWA pilots bid with call Slick, minus the interface. Old algorithm that has been in storage until they attached the pretty interface.
 
Enuff, I could be wrong, but I don't think he was referring to real time bidding. That's how I read it the first time till I went back and re-read it.

But, Please XJET guys don't get hung up on the real time bidding. It looks nice and flashy but it will not work.

As I've said MANY times, I'm not a huge supporter of flight line PBS. I'd rather have your line bidding. That's not gonna happen. PBS IS GONNA HAPPEN.

But please consider the expertise of people who have actually used it for years using a tried and true product. This smartpref system has been rejected time after time. It is basically a couple of guys in a room with a couple of servers tweaking 20 year old software with a modern GUI. They are needing a large cash infusion to modernize and upgrade their product for us/you. They are waiting for this infusion of cash before they hire a staff to run the operation.

Is that what you really want? 10-12 brand new software engineers on an untried antiquated system. Our MEC went to their headquarters and asked very specific questions and were met with blank stares. Nobody could answer how the award logic actually worked.

I didn't like the line in the sand memo our MEC put out. I thought it was a HUGE mistake. But your MEC is making one pushing this POS software. We simply cannot figure out why they want it so bad. It seems suspicious. Are they getting a back door raise to push it???Its Like they are actually picking such a horrible system so that it would stall our negotiations. Just ask questions.....LOTS of questions. The simple fact that our company wants it should scare you A LOT!!!

Like the surejet name change.....it was SOOOOO BAD we thought it was surely a conspiracy cause NOBODY could really think THAT was a good idea.

Flame away
 
Well said!
Totally incomprehensible that XJet side is proposing SmartPerf. A globalized system is the last thing we want. You're correct when you state there's something fishy going on, and questions do need to be asked.
If the company wants this so bad, that's a big red flag right there.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
Tarzan said:
SmartPref is the system the TWA pilots bid with call Slick, minus the interface. Old algorithm that has been in storage until they attached the pretty interface.
Click to expand...

I thought they used Ad-opt software?

http://business.highbeam.com/26/article-1G1-21153965/ad-opting-pref-bidding

Doesn't matter, talk to a TWA guy about the PBS they used, hard to find one that DIDN'T like it, the reason?

IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE WORK RULES!!!!!!!!!

The pilots had 100% control over the sort/award.
 
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I would support a quiji board bidding system if the pilots had 100% control over the awards.

That i guarantee you the company would NEVER........EVER .......do

Ever.
 

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