Luvin' it...SWA 2nd time hopefuls!

[737ski]

Dude,
You said it better than anyone could. I planned to go negative on this thread until I read your response and couldn't agree more, I, too, have flown with or known alot of ex's, would've/should've/could've...

Don't we all live our lives that way? Take a risk, live life, take that risk for the 3rd, 4th or 5th times! If at first you don't succeed, try, try again... Isn't that the American way? Keep the faith & pursue your dream...

Ski

 

[LearDriver]

I interviewed with SW almost 2.5 years ago with the type, and with references called. I felt like all went well, but in the end received the dreaded letter. That was my first interview, but hopefully not my last.

I have kept everything updated frequently since, but I am slightly concerned since I have not heard a peep out of them since then. I keep checking to make sure that I haven't missed anything on the application, and have had others proof it for me. I'm sure that others have waited longer than this for a second chance, but I can't help wondering if this is the normal waiting period in the current hiring market or not. It just seems like a long time to me. Good luck to all the hopeful.

 

[BagelBaker]

The flaw is using people to hire people. But I'm not sure what alternative we have. Our system of interviewing is not perfect, by far, but I'll be danged if anyone else does it better and has had the success at hiring such depth and diversity into their cockpits as SWA.

I've flown with ex-astronauts, ex-Thunderbirds, ex-college dropouts, ex-attorneys, ex-freight dogs, ex-test pilots, ex-commuter dudes, ex-corporate dudes, ex-tanker dudes, ex-fighter dudes, and a couple of current buttholes. There is a trend here. Ex would be the operative word. There is a distinct difference between desperation and desire. Southwest wants people that desire to be a member of the Southwest family. Flying is such a small part of the collective equation. I agree that it is difficult to spend $8000.00 to buy a type without any guarantee but I paid a lot more for my other certificates and I sleep very well at night with the decision I made. It was an investment and therefore, the cost of doing business.

The personality portion is the hard one. Any schmuck can fly an approach and not kill anyone. You have only three 45 minute interviews and during those and your LOI you have to show those folks who you really are. It doesn't matter if your prepped or not or if your an ace or a good bull$hitter. What matters is what they read between the lines and in between stories. They are pros and can tell who fits and who doesn't. Sadly, a large number of those turned down shouldn't have been; but the system is run by imperfect people who misread an answer, didn't listen attentively, or are having a bad day. On the whole, the systems is very effective and I am glad we have it. The test is in our performance as an airline, in which the pilot contribute. It appears we pass.

Excellent post...

Hopefully gonna add "Ex-Bagel Baker" to that list soon!

Hyperboy, I'm pulling for you for next year, man.

 

[JetFumes]

Complete BS and you know it.

We have a system, it works great.

It allows a mass of folks WHO MEET the minimums an OPPORTUNITY to interview. What YOU do with that interview is up to you (to include background, references, experience, prep, etc). To my knowledge you won't find that anywhere else.

You don't want to be called for an interview unless you have a 100% chance? Simple, apply elsewhere. And good luck.

NO, I don't. First off, when I say that there are class acts that didn't make it, do you really think these guys didn't take it seriously, and when I say that there are some real screw-ups who did, do you think I didn't know who I was talking about.

Here's the flaw in the system as I see it.( Keep in mind, SWA isn't the only place that does it this way) SWA bases their decisions on a personality style, lets get to know you interview. There is no sim ride, no real techincal questions asked, or a written test given. So if you have two equally qualified individuals who both have perfect resumes and backgrounds, why does one get hired and one not? Its based on the interviewers brief "perception" of their personalities. Thats too shallow of an analysis, in my opinion. And I only base it on the good people I know who got turned down. On the flip side, SWA has hired some great people as well, and I'm glad they got on there, they deserve it.

 

[SWAdude]

NO, I don't. First off, when I say that there are class acts that didn't make it, do you really think these guys didn't take it seriously, and when I say that there are some real screw-ups who did, do you think I didn't know who I was talking about.

Here's the flaw in the system as I see it.( Keep in mind, SWA isn't the only place that does it this way) SWA bases their decisions on a personality style, lets get to know you interview. There is no sim ride, no real techincal questions asked, or a written test given. So if you have two equally qualified individuals who both have perfect resumes and backgrounds, why does one get hired and one not? Its based on the interviewers brief "perception" of their personalities. Thats too shallow of an analysis, in my opinion. And I only base it on the good people I know who got turned down. On the flip side, SWA has hired some great people as well, and I'm glad they got on there, they deserve it.

The major flaw I see in your statement (there are a few others) is that you assume since you think they were great people that SWA would see them as good employees.

You never know how well your friends actually interviewed.

 

[Mooseflyer]

Its based on the interviewers brief "perception" of their personalities. Thats too shallow of an analysis, in my opinion. And I only base it on the good people I know who got turned down.

Bold text above added by me.

I agree, it is too shallow. Which is why some airlines have a program in place to combat the "brief perception". Some call it the sponsor, some call it the silver bullet, some call it the meet&greet, some call it the letter of recommendation. I think it's an excellent idea - after all, pilots don't fly with HR interviewers, they fly with other pilots. But companies get slammed (by us) for having such a program. Take FedEx for example - all the time on this board you hear folks saying it's too much of a "good 'ole boys club".

I, for one, would much rather fly with guys recommended by my peers than with someone hired after a 30 minute interview. Perhaps the interviewee told good stories, or they memorized the company mission statement, or they looked snappy in their dark blue suit, whatever. I couldn't give a rats a$$ about any of that if I have to sit next to some $hitbag for days on end. Of course, all that goes out the window when one $hitbag already on the property recommends other $hitbags!

 

[canyonblue]

We have many pilots here, myself included, who have been pissed off after one of their friends got the letter. I know of a few individuals that got the letter and I was more than a little pissed, I went to talk to the CP about it. Do the interviewers screw up? In my experience with the guys I knew that were turned down, YES! I have flown with a couple of guys who did the interviews, and always asked a million questions about our process. The bottom line, they would like to hire every pilot that comes in. Well they obviously do not and this is where the human factor plays in, for better or worse. He did confirm the story about the cell phone guy, and also about the guy who dropped the F word about 109 times between the 3 interviewers. Two of the guys I know who got the letter are waiting on their year, I'm not sure about the other. My one friend said he wished that he did the Prep, as it may of made a difference.

So what is the reason to try again in a year? Because you know that they screwed up and missed a great employee, and you will give them another shot at hiring you.

Please try again if you really want to work for SWA, we really need those positive attitudes.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Did you give up when SWA didn't hire you? Didn't think so.

Uh....actually I did.

 

[SWAdude]

We have many pilots here, myself included, who have been pissed off after one of their friends got the letter. I know of a few individuals that got the letter and I was more than a little pissed, I went to talk to the CP about it. Do the interviewers screw up? In my experience with the guys I knew that were turned down, YES! I have flown with a couple of guys who did the interviews, and always asked a million questions about our process. The bottom line, they would like to hire every pilot that comes in. Well they obviously do not and this is where the human factor plays in, for better or worse. He did confirm the story about the cell phone guy, and also about the guy who dropped the F word about 109 times between the 3 interviewers. Two of the guys I know who got the letter are waiting on their year, I'm not sure about the other. My one friend said he wished that he did the Prep, as it may of made a difference.

So what is the reason to try again in a year? Because you know that they screwed up and missed a great employee, and you will give them another shot at hiring you.

Please try again if you really want to work for SWA, we really need those positive attitudes.

Well said. Most all of us have had "great" people interviewed and turned down. I have no doubt that I interviewed many "great" people that I didn't recommend for hire. I truly wish that I could have approved of everyone but the fact of the matter is that not all people are good for SWA. And SWA is what mine and every employees family depends on. Some "great" people just don't interview well. And some "great" people are recommended by some not so "great" people. This is only to mean maybe these weren't such "great" people to begin with.

We have forty five minutes to come to a decision about an individual. As for testing and the such. My experience has always been, you can teach someone how to fly but you can't change their attitude. If they have problems with their skill, we find that in training and take care of it there. Instead of an hour sim ride and a few hours of timed testing, we give them six weeks to prove that they are adequate. After that a year on the line. In the 12 years I have been here I have only heard a story or two about someone not being able to do the job. A few others for attitude problems. This company will bend over backwards to help you through.

This system works as good as you could hope for any system to work. We get "great" people to work with. Its not 100% by any means. We have plenty that slip through the cracks. But its what works for us.

Good luck to all.

 

[scoreboard]

Thats too shallow of an analysis, in my opinion. .

We agree to disagree on symantics, you say it is flawed, I will agree it is not perfect, but neither is it flawed. Oh, and what system at what company is perfect? It works for SWA. It is what it is.